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Topic:
The States' Right to Secede
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Quixotic-Sith
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
5/14 4:22pm
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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Jabbadabbado posted:
California easily. Their main concern is access to potable water and energy. Like the rest of the country, a sovereign California would not be energy independent.
I see the right to secede purely in practical terms. If the federal government ever became so weak that it could not prevent secession, then states would start jumping ship.
This is why I am skeptical about California's ability to exist independently. I think the states are interdependent enough at this point that they can't exist as separate nations. Incidentally, if California would secede, would it maintain the currency? It's infrastructure? Any of the programs for which it currently receives federal assistance?
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/14 8:08pm
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
- Date Edited:
5/14 8:09pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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Economic interdependence is a worldwide phenomenon. California has a diversified economy with a global reach. On its own, it would be one of the world's richest nations. Interdependence is certainly less an issue for California than, say, the Ukraine.
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Fluke_Groundrunner
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 9:31am
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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Lord_Vivec posted:
-polymath- posted:
The States have no right of secession. The American Civil War established this doctrine, even if it's unwritten.
No states have a right to secede. They just have to be militarily stronger.
Not stronger, but strong enough not to lose. See: The American Revolution, Vietnam War, Iraq War, etc.
I suppose that if the US was involved in a foreign war and a collection of states voted to succeed, then they would have a chance.
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Quixotic-Sith
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 9:59am
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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Jabbadabbado posted:
Economic interdependence is a worldwide phenomenon. California has a diversified economy with a global reach. On its own, it would be one of the world's richest nations. Interdependence is certainly less an issue for California than, say, the Ukraine.
Again, if it continues to use the dollar. Again, I don't doubt that California has a diversified economy, but I think that there are structural issues (infrastructure, political structure, and foundational issues) that would prevent it.
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Darth-Ghost
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/15 1:18pm
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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On the California/Texas issue, let's say they both become indepedent. If the North America Free Trade Alliance (NAFTA) become something like the European Union (which has been proposed before), and Texas and California were a part of that along with the USA and Canada and Mexico, then I don't see why they would have any problem surving on their own. They wouldn't leave our economy, because it's so interdependent, but they would be able to regulate things their own way. As long as peace is kept and they didn't have to fight a war over it, they could definitely survive. Don't forget there are also some people who would actually like to be more isolated and have a more local economy, and are willing to sacrifice what comes with a big and strong economy.
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JMJacenSolo
Registered:
May '06
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Date Posted:
5/15 3:27pm
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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Question: What happens if you are a member of the United States Armed Forces, and your particular state of residence secedes from the Union?
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:31pm
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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Quixotic-Sith posted:
Any of the programs for which it currently receives federal assistance?
We pay out more in federal taxes than we receive in money from Washington by a very large margin, including military expenditures.
There is no question that California would be a very prosperous independent nation were it to secede.
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Shrapnel
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/16 9:40am
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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A Nation should have the right to secede if joining a union was not under the will of it's citizens in the first place:
Former Soviet states like Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Estonia...were forced to join USSR. Kosovo was conquered, therefore forced to join Serbia, Ireland was also conquered by the Brits. All the states in USA were willing to join, as I think. During the Revolution, they asked the northern colonies, now Canada, if they also wanted to join, and they chose not.
But on they other hand, where is the freedom if a state doesn't to be part of a country?
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
5/16 3:53pm
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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JMJacenSolo posted:
Question: What happens if you are a member of the United States Armed Forces, and your particular state of residence secedes from the Union?
There's a couple of guys in my infantry company who're from other countries-Nigeria and Micronesia. They're just waiting to get their US citizenship. If a state left on friendly terms, I don't see why dual citizenship would be an issue.
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Sauntaero
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
5/17 2:56am
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
- Date Edited:
5/17 2:57am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Sauntaero
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Seldon posted:
The doctrines of nullification and secession were defeated within the constitutional structure of the United States government.
I'm going to go with Seldon and polymath here...I do believe it's written (or maybe just agreed)somewhere that secession is an illegal act of agression on the Union, and would assume going to war. As far as States' Rights go, it's definitely not in there anymore. Not much of anything is included in States' Rights now.
But if they wanted to fight it out on their own, I don't see why we couldn't let them try... or if they wanted to unite with another country... rejoin the Commonwealth maybe.... 
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Sinrebirth
Title: Hierarch and Chancellor of EUCity
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
5/17 11:07am
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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For some reason, I'm fairly sure there was a Supreme Court ruling in 1962 about this, saying it was illegal. I read it in an article about Vermont seceding, last year sometime. Have to see if I can find it for us all.
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Darth_Whatshisface_
Registered:
Mar '08
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Date Posted:
5/19 2:34pm
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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Legal: problably not
Possible: Yes
The Virgina and Kentucky Resolutions (1798/99) adress the right of the state to secede from the Union to protest an unjust law, resolution, etc.
The idea of secession, though, can be used to envoke a favorable responce from the goventment, see: Amistad
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GrandAdmiralPelleaon
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
5/23 10:23am
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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Shrapnel posted:
A Nation should have the right to secede if joining a union was not under the will of it's citizens in the first place:
Former Soviet states like Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Estonia...were forced to join USSR. Kosovo was conquered, therefore forced to join Serbia, Ireland was also conquered by the Brits. All the states in USA were willing to join, as I think. During the Revolution, they asked the northern colonies, now Canada, if they also wanted to join, and they chose not.
But on they other hand, where is the freedom if a state doesn't to be part of a country?
Kosovo was conquored? Where did you get that exactly, it's history is slightly too complicated to make it seem like it was "conquored" by Serbia, especially since according to Serbian history it is in fact the heartland of Serbian culture.
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/29 1:10am
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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Never going to happen. The President will send troops into the state to squash the rebellion. That's what almost happened when South Carolina threatened to secede over tariffs during Andrew Jackson's Presidency.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
6/5 4:25pm
Subject:
RE: The States' Right to Secede
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This is an interesting topic. I think that that the government would crush any state would try it. I doubt that any of the states would actually go through with it.
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