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Topic:
The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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Blue_Jedi33
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
6/25 7:25am
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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Saintheart posted:
Now that's an interesting idea. I rather like the prophetic dismissal that "It'll probably never hit America because of its all-glue construction".
Now all we need to do is evaluate the costs of how much gasoline it takes to run the air compressor that allows you to create fuel for the car.
Two words
"Electric Compressor"
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
6/25 9:50am
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
- Date Edited:
6/25 9:51am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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What's the advantage over other types of electric vehicles? In one case you're recharging batteries. In the other, you're filling tanks with compressed air. Either way, you're burning a lot of coal. One approach may be more efficient than another, but it would be nice to see the numbers.
Think of any electric car as a coal-fired steam locomotive with the coal car and boiler displaced to a different location.
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Blue_Jedi33
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
7/15 10:47pm
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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Another compressed air car
http://gas2.org/2008/07/15/an-air-car-you-could-see-in-2009-zpms-106-mpg-compressed-air-hybrid/
I like this idea alot, get us off OPEC oil
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HawkNC
Title: FanForce RSA
Oceania
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
7/19 7:46pm
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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Kimball_Kinnison posted:
The specific environmental impact that I was referring to is the marginal impact of manufacturing the hybrid (as opposed to a normal vehicle of the same or similar model). From everything I've read, the environmental impact of the standard vehicle is actually lower than that of the hybrid. The hybrid may have lower carbon emissions, but does more damage to the environment overall.
Hence, my opinion that they are mostly "feel good boondoggles".
Kimball Kinnison
I'd be interested to read those. The typical vehicle uses about 10-25% of its total lifecycle energy in manufacturing and the rest in operation (various sources, but I obtained the limits from here; the lower is for a mid-sized SUV and the higher is for an efficient diesel). While I'd imagine a hybrid would be at the higher end of that due to slightly more energy-intensive manufacturing operations in batteries and lightweight materials, and lower running costs, I was of the opinion the total lifecycle energy use was less. In addition, most batteries can be recycled (including NiMH and Li-ion types that are/will be used in hybrids and electric vehicles) and are some of the least toxic battery types on the market, when compared to standard lead-acid car batteries. There is an issue with mining raw materials, perhaps, but that issue exists with the much higher quantities of steel and aluminium as well as the small amounts of nickel or lithium that are in batteries.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
7/19 8:10pm
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
- Date Edited:
7/19 8:10pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
KnightWriter
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Did anyone read the article about the Volt in the current (and soon to be previous) issue of The Atlantic? Based on what I read, GM has turned a lot of industry stuff on its head with it, including giving reporters unprecedented access and making transparency a priority. The Volt could help turn GM around, or finish it off.
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
7/20 3:48pm
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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Kimball_Kinnison posted:
dianethx posted:
As for hybrids, I would agree that most only give you a little more milage. You have to take that into consideration when you buy it as well as the environmental impact of the batteries and making the car (but a car, any car will have an environmental impact anyway). At least I'm trying to do something, not just wring my hands and lament about the price of gas.
The specific environmental impact that I was referring to is the marginal impact of manufacturing the hybrid (as opposed to a normal vehicle of the same or similar model). From everything I've read, the environmental impact of the standard vehicle is actually lower than that of the hybrid. The hybrid may have lower carbon emissions, but does more damage to the environment overall.
Hence, my opinion that they are mostly "feel good boondoggles".
Kimball Kinnison
I'm sure you are thinking of the 450-page report by the Oregon-based CNW Marketing Research. Their report, titled "Dust to Dust: The Energy Cost of New Vehicles from Concept to Disposal," says that The Hummer H1, H2 and H3 are more energy efficient than a Toyota Prius hybrid and many other smaller vehicles.
SF Chronicle
Well, considering that the CNW took huge assumptions such as "the average H1 Hummer is assumed to last 35 years, and travel 379,000 miles, while the average Prius is assumed to last only 109,000 miles over 12 years." It's just ridiculous. In that one statement, they've shown that they are making assumptions that just aren't true. They also claimed that the nickel plant was environmentally disasterous but the newspaper and others investigated that and found it had been cleaned up years before. I have to wonder how many other assumptions they've made....
Now, keep in mind that I would be thrilled if we could come up with a car that was more fuel efficient or had alternatives that didn't use gas at all. However, until we do, we need to look at these things very carefully and make the best choices that we can. Making fun of people (I'm not accusing you, KK of that but I have to question the attitude toward "enviromentalists" in this thread) trying to do what's right for the planet isn't helping the situation. Instead I'd love to hear about real solutions.
As for the Volt, I'm not holding my breath. GM has done a spectacular job, imo, of driving a company into the ground with bad decisions.
From wiki -
Chrysler, Toyota and some GM dealers sued in Federal court; California soon neutered its ZEV Mandate. After public protests by EV drivers' groups upset by the repossession of their EVs, Toyota offered the last 328 RAV4-EVs for sale to the general public during six months (ending on November 22, 2002). All other electric cars, with minor exceptions, were withdrawn from the market and destroyed by their manufacturers.
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Darth_Asabrush
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
7/22 11:59am
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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I pay £1.17.9p per litre at my petrol station. Thats about $2.35 per litre!!!! You Yanks should think yourself lucky!
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
7/22 12:50pm
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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Darth_Asabrush posted:
I pay £1.17.9p per litre at my petrol station. Thats about $2.35 per litre!!!! You Yanks should think yourself lucky!
Its your government that has decided you should pay that much, though.
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
7/22 6:24pm
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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Darth_Asabrush posted:
I pay £1.17.9p per litre at my petrol station. Thats about $2.35 per litre!!!! You Yanks should think yourself lucky!
So how do you think that high a price has shaped your decisions as to energy usage?
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JediSmuggler
Registered:
Jun '99
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Date Posted:
7/22 8:19pm
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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The real game-changer, though, could be oil shale. The United states has at least 800 billion barrels of oil in its shale deposits in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming. That's about three times Saudi Arabia's reserves. Coal-to-liquid, given the large reserves of coal in the U.S., would also seem to be worth pursuing.
As near-term solutions, they would be able to drop the price of gas down. The real questions about their use would be more political/legal - could legislation allowing those efforts be enacted and how hard would it be to avoid a massive legal battle that would likely occur?
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
7/22 9:11pm
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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And yet, if it were so easy, it would have been gotten to long ago. Remember, the 1970s were even worse than today in some ways. Shale still wasn't developed.
There are reasons for that, and you're well aware of them.
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Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
7/23 4:34am
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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KnightWriter posted:
And yet, if it were so easy, it would have been gotten to long ago. Remember, the 1970s were even worse than today in some ways. Shale still wasn't developed.
There are reasons for that, and you're well aware of them.
Many of those reasons are technological, and we've developed quite a bit of new technology in the past 30 years.
Kimball Kinnison
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Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
7/23 7:27am
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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I think developing our own fossil fuel resources are reasonable as a bridge to conversion away from a carbon-based infrastructure, but any drilling or new exploration should be part of a package that explicitly calls for the development of renewable, alternative, energy sources.
Peace,
V-03
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Raven
Title:
SFF: Books and Comics Mangler
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
7/24 5:54am
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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I just noticed an article at Time about $4.00 gas, and it fits in pretty well with my thinking. Economic incentives are by far the best way to generate change, and in the long term America needs to wean itself off non-renewable resources. There's no way around that. So, yay for $4.00 gas.
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Darth_Asabrush
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
7/24 8:32am
Subject:
RE: The Price Of Gas Around the World-We are getting ripped off !
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Lowbacca_1977 posted:
Darth_Asabrush posted:
I pay £1.17.9p per litre at my petrol station. Thats about $2.35 per litre!!!! You Yanks should think yourself lucky!
Its your government that has decided you should pay that much, though.
Absolutely. It the British government's taxation policy that makes our petrol expensive and no government is likely to change/reduce this element of taxation in the near future. I was merely highlighting that fact that us Brits would love to be paying what you guys are.
dianethx posted:
Darth_Asabrush posted:
I pay £1.17.9p per litre at my petrol station. Thats about $2.35 per litre!!!! You Yanks should think yourself lucky!
So how do you think that high a price has shaped your decisions as to energy usage?
As for shaping my personal decisions. The price of petrol has had very little impact on my attitude to energy use. I don't drive a huge gass guzzling vehicle (my Renault Clio 1.2 is sufficient for what I require). When it comes to buying a new car I will certainly look for an even more fuel efficient model and make.
The price of gas and electricity will, come winter affect me decision making more I suspect.
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