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Topic:
The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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Darth Mischievous
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
9/26 8:53pm
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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My initial impressions of the debate are that it is a net win for Sen. Obama in the end, even though there were no clear sound byte victories or memorable lines.
Sen. McCain was at an inherent disadvantage. Half the debate, supposed to be about foreign policy, was about the economy. McCain was singular in his reasoning concerning the issue, focusing only on earmarks and spending while neglecting to challenge and attack Obama on his history regarding tax policy, income redistribution and other policies. I found Sen. McCain's responses fairly inadequate in the foreign policy area as well, even though he came ahead in that portion of the debate. Considering the ammuniton he had to utilize against his opponent, he should have been much more effective. Overall, McCain was flat and seemed unprepared, although he did get under Obama's skin on a few occasions. McCain now will have to face two other debates that involve the same type of thing as the first part of this debate.
Also, I found the debate very boring. Lehrer did a very poor job of moderating. Really, I was expecing more out of it.
So, it's probably a wash in the end.
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goodfellas
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
9/26 9:03pm
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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McCain had a few good lines, like "It is hard to reach across the aisle when you're that far to the left".
He also threw in a few jokes about his age, though it may not be wise to remind voters about that. At least he is good humored about it.
I do agree with sellars that Obama interrupted a bit too much, but on the same token I am glad that he wasn't pushed around. Did anyone notice a strikingly different debating style compared to the one he used against Clinton? I feel like Obama walked on eggshells with her, not wanting to appear condescending or sexist. Yet he was really able to pivot hard against McCain and took advantage of it.
Don't most people only pay attention to the first 30 minutes or so of debating? If that is true, its not good for McCain, because it took about 35 minutes or longer for the debate to focus on foreign policy and national security.
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
9/26 9:08pm
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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I drifted away after about an hour. I actually liked Obama interrupting McCain. I thought he looked more firm and decisive that way.
I was hoping for more clear stratagies for the economy and foreign policy.
It was pretty much a wash for me. I'll still vote for Obama but I really want my country to go in a different direction. I don't like where it's going or where it has been going for quite a long time now.
I did appreciate how Obama kept reminding people of his views on the wealthy vs middle class and poor. I think we've neglected our working people and their issues for far too long.
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
9/26 9:30pm
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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It was more or less a tie, as nothing really changed and they didn't really say anything new on the subject. I do think that is going to hurt McCain because this is his issue, and he didn't disqualify Obama on the subject.
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Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
9/27 5:33am
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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Darth Mischievous posted:
My initial impressions of the debate are that it is a net win for Sen. Obama in the end, even though there were no clear sound byte victories or memorable lines.
Sen. McCain was at an inherent disadvantage. Half the debate, supposed to be about foreign policy, was about the economy. McCain was singular in his reasoning concerning the issue, focusing only on earmarks and spending while neglecting to challenge and attack Obama on his history regarding tax policy, income redistribution and other policies. I found Sen. McCain's responses fairly inadequate in the foreign policy area as well, even though he came ahead in that portion of the debate. Considering the ammuniton he had to utilize against his opponent, he should have been much more effective. Overall, McCain was flat and seemed unprepared, although he did get under Obama's skin on a few occasions. McCain now will have to face two other debates that involve the same type of thing as the first part of this debate.
Also, I found the debate very boring. Lehrer did a very poor job of moderating. Really, I was expecing more out of it.
So, it's probably a wash in the end.
Yeah, Jim Lehrer was even more of a wooden indian than the late Peter Jennings could be (no disrespect to his memory intended; I watched every night at 6:30 since I was about 9 years old).
I agree that it is a net victory for Obama, for one simple reason: he's learning to shorten his answers. He cut the amount of "uh's" that normally pepper his unscripted appearances by at least 50% last night.
McCain was actually the better speaker, IMHO, he just didn't have anything that I agreed with to say.
Peace,
V-03
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Moff_D
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
9/27 6:29am
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
- Date Edited:
9/27 6:36am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Moff_D
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There were no big surprises and I don't think either of them will win or lose based on last night. Some pundits say McCain won or that it was a draw but Obama didn't embarrass himself (heck, even Pat Buchanan said he looked "presidential" for whatever that is worth). I tend to think a draw favors Obama since most of the debate was foreign affairs and that is the one area where McCain is supposed to have a clear advantage over Obama.
It might also help that McCain barely acknowledged Obama's presence on the stage, while Obama consistently tried to engage him visually (I don't know if Obama had to continue with the other theatrics--head-shaking, smirks, etc.--maybe that is just the way Obama is).
The VP debate could be very telling. Biden will have to tread a thin line between crushing his opponent but not crushing her too much. If he piles on he'll be viewed badly, if he doesn't go for the throat he'll be viewed badly. As long as Palin doesn't say anything outrageously idiotic or naive and goes the distance calm and collected she'll be viewed as having won. It is basically a no-win situation for the Democrats I think.
Of course, "winning" the debates didn't have much impact on the last election anyway.
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goodfellas
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
9/27 6:45am
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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I don't think people are going to be as easy on Palin everybody thinks. By "people", I mean the MSM. If she doesn't give answers with substance, if she answers like she did with Couric and Gibson, she will be heavily scrutinized. Holding her own against Joe Biden, with thoughtful and fairly loaded answers, means she can win. Surviving does not.
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PTMurphy84
Registered:
Aug '08
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Date Posted:
9/27 7:19am
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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goodfellas posted:
I don't think people are going to be as easy on Palin everybody thinks. By "people", I mean the MSM. If she doesn't give answers with substance, if she answers like she did with Couric and Gibson, she will be heavily scrutinized. Holding her own against Joe Biden, with thoughtful and fairly loaded answers, means she can win. Surviving does not.
That is of course assuming that Palin has the mental fortitude to go up against Joe Biden, which she does not.
Ill turn the VP debate on, itl be good for a laugh. You can expect Biden to answer concisely and outline an intelligent and practical framework for the Obama/Biden years in office, and Palin to respond with huffy indignation and smokescreens.
Like I said, comedy as its best.
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Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
9/27 9:03am
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
- Date Edited:
9/27 10:12am (7 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
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I think Obama did well, upon reflection. But he still let McCain get away with way too much. Now, part of that is because McCain kept cutting him off and running his mouth like Grandpa in the old folks home, who finally gets some visitors. But I think McCain came off a lot worse in terms of behavior, while Obama looked downright graceful.
I did like Obama looking into the camera and saying, "My father was Kenyan. That's where I got my name. This is for all of you hateful, xenophobic mouth-breathers who are getting ready to hit 'send' on yet another e-mail forward detailing how I'm a 'secret Muslim.'"
Another thing that struck me was that a lot of McCain's answers were of the "I did" or "I was" variety, whereas Obama's were more, "I will." The past versus the future.
With that said, I'm still worried about how this plays. There were several moments when Barack had opportunity, but did little to defend his positions against McCain. Especially with regard to Georgia, I thought there was a wasted opportunity. Also, McCain did a very good job of blunting any defense on Obama's part by hammering back with distortions of Barack's positions, even after they had been refuted.
I think McCain gets away with it, too, in part because he says these things with emotion and indignation, while Barack holds back. Now, maybe McCain did overdo the aggressive indignation, but to me Barack's strongest moments were those in which his voice undertook a more forceful and commanding tone. McCain's emotion allowed him to control this debate.
For me, as someone who could read between the li(n)es, I think Obama at least fought him to a standstill. But I keep trying to picture how this plays to certain independents, and those who have yet to make up their minds, and I don't know if they know enough to see through McCain's bullcrap.
After thinking about the debate, I came away with this conclusion:
McCain wants to the leader, and Obama wants to lead. Obama seemed intelligent, informed, and truly possessing a vision for the future. McCain came off as he was selling something. He tried to mention Reagan whenever he could, painted Obama as "liberal" and himself as "conservative." McCain's plan seemed to be to spin his way through the debate. Obama actually answered the questions, and when he answered McCain's assertions, they were intelligent responses, versus trying to spin the topic.
These debates need to heat up....hmmm.
A duel! Zell Miller should be moderating. Or in fencing parlance, "presiding."
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
10/2 7:35am
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
- Date Edited:
10/2 7:57am (5 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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**TONIGHT ONLY**
The Vice Presidential Debate
Label: gaffe-prone
Label: ill-informed
Down-home perkiness battles Beltway insider-i-ness tonight in the highly anticipated vice presidential debate.
Does Schadenfreude make for great television? You bet it does! Billed as one of McCain's few remaining opportunities to turn this thing around, tonight's debate promises significantly higher ratings than last week's Friday-night non spectacle. Those not watching MLB will tune in either for the chance to see Palin struggle in vain to convince people she knows anything about something, or with the hope of being inspired once again by the same kind of charismatic presence she demonstrated at the Republican National Convention.
Joe Biden need not necessarily show up tonight at all. But if he does, his sole mission is to do no harm to Obama's current lead in the polls.
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
10/2 7:58am
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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Expections have Palin digressing to baby sounds, so anything better than that will have this one scored as a "win" by the pudits. But to turn things around for McCain she has to actually perform well.
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A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user.
Theodore Roosevelt
We should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe.
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
10/2 8:19am
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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Moderator: Gwen Ifill of PBS. Conservatives have raised concerns about Ms. Ifill's impartiality, citing a book by Ms. Ifill coming out in January titled The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama. Ms. Ifill dismissed the concerns, and John McCain said that Ms. Ifill would be "scrupulously fair."
Format: During the 90-minute debate, Mr. Biden and Ms. Palin will stand at lecterns, with Ms. Ifill seated in front of them. Ms. Ifill will mix questions on foreign and domestic matters. Ms. Palin and Mr. Biden will each have 90 seconds to respond to questions, followed by a two-minute period for discussion between the candidates.
The conventional wisdom seems to be that the more constrained format favors Palin a bit. If she can simply give a series of short speeches reminiscent of her Convention performance, then that will count as a win. But imho there is "an ocean of time" in those two-minute back and forths.
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-polymath-
Title: SFF:F/TV Trivia Host
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
10/2 8:43am
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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Well, the role of the veeps is to attack the other person's presidential candidate. If that's Palin's philosophy, then she should do relatively okay. However, if Palin decides that attacking Obama is not how she wants to debate tonight, then I think she's in deep crap. The more I listen to her the more I believe she is a dunder-head.
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
10/2 2:56pm
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
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If that's Palin's philosophy, then she should do relatively okay.
I'm sure that's the plan.
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of white Christians, voting freely, selected as their
leader a black man of modest origin, the son
of a Muslim. There is a place on Earth - call it
America - where such a thing happens."
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
10/2 7:41pm
Subject:
RE: The Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate Reaction and Commentary Thread
- Date Edited:
10/2 7:42pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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Great performance for both candidates. This must have been very reassuring for supporters of McCain.
Palin's performance was very, very close to being glitch-free. She had one minor Katie Couric moment when the candidates were asked about the constitutional role of the vice president. Biden was the only one who understood the question and gave a moving answer about Cheney's bizarre bid to claim he was part of the legislative branch and about the danger of Cheney's role as vice president in general. Palin merely muddled through - winging it on a question she didn't quite understand.
Otherwise, well done. I really enjoyed listening to Biden. Palin seemed much more scripted most of the time, and wierdly enough, it was her obviously scripted moments of folksy charm that seemed most inauthentic and rehearsed.
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