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Topic:
The
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Ender
Registered:
Aug '98
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Date Posted:
11/18/01 10:42pm
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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What smiley?
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Lord Bane
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
11/18/01 11:13pm
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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I have many windows open. I think they all merged into one image in my head when I warned you. Warning stands for the "lack of logic" remark, but no ill will for the smiley.
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“Time in its aging course teaches all things.” -Prometheus Bound http://thedenofmystery.blogspot.com Ghastly Tales! Thrilling Commentary! Tomfoolery!
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Ender
Registered:
Aug '98
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Date Posted:
11/18/01 11:25pm
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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I thought you meant I was directing a sarcastic comment to imzadi.
The bane of modship getting to you, Lord?
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Lord Bane
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
11/19/01 12:05am
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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I've already banned you once tonight for...I think it was getting on my nerves...  Want to go for the sequal? Maybe we can make this a series.
But back to topic...God. Yes, no, impossible to decide?
-----signature-----
“Time in its aging course teaches all things.” -Prometheus Bound http://thedenofmystery.blogspot.com Ghastly Tales! Thrilling Commentary! Tomfoolery!
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Doright
Title: MNForce Webmaster
Registered:
Jun '99
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Date Posted:
11/19/01 1:42am
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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"impossible to decide"
I think 'impossible to prove' would be a better way of putting that. At least to others anyway.
I recently have be touched by God in a real personal way. This is a feeling inside of my hart and soul that Proves to ME without a doubt that there is a God. Proving to others is the hard part. Until someone notices and Feels how God is working in their lives they will tend to disbelieve Testimony of believers. It's not a matter of intelligence, common sense, or proof. It's something you feel deep down. IMHO.
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Hatshepsut
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
11/19/01 5:23am
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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Doright, I have no doubt that you encountered the energy of something much greater than yourself, perhaps even the evidence of a supreme being... but I'm curious as to how Christians (and people of other faiths) can interpret these moments to prove the existence of "their" God. When you were touched, how did you know it was Yaweh rather than Ahura Mazda, or even something else that humans haven't even imagined yet?
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Men without breasts love war. They measure their height by the mountains of severed hands piled up, cut from their enemies.
But I saw our land laid out in peace.
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Force of Nature
Registered:
Nov '99
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Date Posted:
11/19/01 5:41am
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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LlaWessiriNRI, thanks for responding to my question.
"An atheist's life doesn't lack purpose."
OK, so maybe no-one ever said it did. It wasn't intended to be a direct quote from anyone.
"The atheist shows that he or she believes his or her life has no purpose because of what he or she believes."
I thought you'd lost me there, but maybe I can see what you're getting at.
"If there is no God, and we are all just the result of an explosion of matter, then you are simply a collection of complex molecules. And your purpose is... basically to live until you die."
Can't argue with that.
"So what's the purpose of living?"
Off the top of my head, I'd say that the purpose of living is living. Other than that, according to me, it doesn't have one; that's what I'm puzzled about.
That being said, being alive is extremely interesting and often rather pleasant; and insofar as I have any overall objective, it's to enjoy what I believe to be a unique experience.
I agree with the quote cydonia posted: "The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced."
"Why can't you go around killing random people? It doesn't make a difference, does it?"
Have to disagree with you there; it would make a considerable difference, not least because I don't want random people killing me!
"I'm not saying worry about the future. I'm saying look at the future objectively. If everything is just going cease to exist one day, then what is the point of living? Why does humanity exist?
Already addressed the 'point of living' bit. Humanity exists, IMO, as a (for us) fortunate accident.
"It doesn't." (matter that we're going to die someday) And while we're at it, why does it matter that we're alive right now?"
It only matters to me in so far as I'm enjoying the ride, and that includes having my friends and loved ones around.
"Without God, life has no purpose."
Ah ha! That sounds promising. My apologies if my not-really-a-quote misled you earlier.
Are you saying that, if God exists, life does have a purpose? I think you are, because you also said:
"You're going to end up in heaven or hell. What you do while you're alive determines where you go. But that's not the ONLY purpose for living."
That sounds to me as though there are at least two purposes for living, if God exists.
If I've understood you correctly, could you (or someone) please elaborate?
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I didn't actually come here to free slaves.
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IellaWessiriNRI
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
11/19/01 6:05pm
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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imzadi:
Taking together in the same post, this suggests that because we believe differently than you, we are illogical and that our statements are faulty in and of themselves, simply because they contradict other people's views.
Not because they contradict my views... but if I don't argue when I (personally) see your arguments as containing fault, then what is there to discuss? Should we all just agree on everything? That wouldn't make for a very exciting discussion... 
Force of Nature:
"Why can't you go around killing random people? It doesn't make a difference, does it?"
Have to disagree with you there; it would make a considerable difference, not least because I don't want random people killing me!
Right. It does make a difference, for the reason that life isn't purposeless. What I don't understand is how you can live by the philosophy "We live just to live." If that's not circular thinking, then what is? ?:|
If I've understood you correctly, could you (or someone) please elaborate?
You want it from my point of view? Because I know I'm going to get a whole lot of posts telling me how retarded it is. Oh well...
1. Love God
Mark 12:30 "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength."
2. Love others
Mark 12:31 "The second is this, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these."
3. Obey God
Dueteronomy 13:4 "You shall follow the Lord your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him."
4. Witness to others about God
Matthew 28:19-20 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
5. Glorify God
I Corinthians 6:20 "For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body."
Those are the reasons (off the top of my head) that we live on earth.
And please, no smart remarks about how all I can talk about is God. Force of Nature asked the question based on the assumption (if) God exists.
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I miss the good old days.
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cydonia
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
11/19/01 8:16pm
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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IellaWessiriNRI,
I think you are allowed to discuss god all you want on the Senate Floor as long as it's respectful. But i wonder what your motivation is for taking every single poster on. If you want to convert us, it would seem to me the best way would be to be an example of God's love. Everyone loves a great debate, but it seems you just like arguing and putting people on the defensive.
Now, as far as what i said earlier, you created a monologue that was supposed to be me talking. In it you said "heck, there's no afterlife anyway." I said don't put words into my mouth. I never said i didn't believe in some sort of afterlife, however nebulous my conception of that could be. So don't put words in my mouth. Please. I can play that game too.
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when you're born a lover, you're born to suffer-
Like all soul sisters and soul brothers
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IellaWessiriNRI
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
11/19/01 11:30pm
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
- Date Edited:
11/19/01 11:58pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
IellaWessiriNRI
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cydonia, I apologize for offending you. I just figured that was probably what you believe. But please accept my apology...
And as for taking every poster on... I admit, I am argumentative by nature. If I see something I disagree with, I'll most likely try and point out why I disagree with it. If I agree with what someone says, I'm certainly not going to argue.
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I miss the good old days.
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Doright
Title: MNForce Webmaster
Registered:
Jun '99
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Date Posted:
11/20/01 1:07am
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
- Date Edited:
11/20/01 1:14am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Doright
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"I'm curious as to how Christians (and people of other faiths) can interpret these moments to prove the existence of "their" God. When you were touched, how did you know it was Yaweh rather than Ahura Mazda, or even something else that humans haven't even imagined yet"
I am not sure how to phrase this response so forgive me if I babble a bit....
I will be the first to admit I do not know everything about God. He is God. I am only a man. I do not even have a chance of understanding everything about God. There could be things I think I understand that are actually different from what I think. If someone believes something different than me that is fine. It is not my place to judge. I see that as something between them and God. If asked I will state my opinion and that's all. I also try to be a good example for others and live up the example set by Christ.
The teachings of Christ match what I feel to be true. It just makes sense to me. I am at odds with a lot of Christians about things in the Old testament. Just in the manner they are interpreted in. However I see that as a minor thing compared to trying to live by the example set by Jesus. When I get to heaven and God says.. [big voice]"You know Doug you where wrong about Evolution. It really happened this way........"[/big voice] After slapping my head and saying "DOH!" I will say "cool let me see" I really do not think I will be sent to hell because I think God spent more than 24 human hours on the heavens and the Earth.
I interpret things differently than some. Mostly because I feel that we do not have all the answers and it's arrogant for us to claim we do. God left something’s for us to figure out on or own. That (I believe) is why the Old Testament is so vague and the stories are so abridged.
I also believe that when I am praying to God I am also praying to the same being that a Jewish person prays to when they pray to G-d. I also believe that is the same Being that a Muslim Person prays to when they Pray to Allah. Buddhists strive for inner peace and enlightenment.. I do not see that as a bad or Evil thing. The Creator is the Creator....no matter what you want to call him.
People interpret God's work in their life in different ways. That I believe is the central reason in this world for so many religions. I think they all have truth to them.... At least in some way. It all depends on how you feel about the teachings of each one and what an individual feels.
It is my belief that Jesus came to earth to set and example and to show us the best way to do things. Also I think he wanted to let us know that we are forgiven when we fall short of his example.
I do not think that means you have to be Christian to be saved but I do think in the End you will be judged in a way that is consistent with the teachings of Christ no matter what religion you choose to follow. He told us the way is through him and I believe that.
So in summery for this topic..... God is God.. it's up to you what you want to call him (or her if that is what you believe). Just because someone call's him something different then I do doesn't mean he isn't there. It all comes down to what makes sense to you.
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Hatshepsut
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
11/20/01 5:23am
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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Thanks, Doright. I think everyone on this board can appreciate the kindness and thoughtfulness that went into your response. 
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Men without breasts love war. They measure their height by the mountains of severed hands piled up, cut from their enemies.
But I saw our land laid out in peace.
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Force of Nature
Registered:
Nov '99
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Date Posted:
11/20/01 6:04am
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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IellaWessiriNRI, I wouldn't dignify my view of life by calling it a 'philosophy' but I'll take your word for it. I know I'm the one who blethered "Off the top of my head, I'd say that the purpose of living is living"; sorry, I'm not very good at taking myself seriously. What I believe isn't exactly "We live just to live"; it's "We just live".
Now, back on topic …
Thank you very much for providing a straight answer to my question; no-one else ever has. I don't see why anyone would tell you your point of view is retarded. The thread's entitled 'The "God" Question' after all; and I specifically asked for someone to explain the religious significance of "purpose". Surely a believer's much better qualified to do that than a non-believer and that's why I asked the question here; I don't know many believers IRL. Thanks again for setting out your answer so clearly.
Doright, thanks to you, too. I enjoyed reading your well considered post and admirably clear explanation of your beliefs.
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I didn't actually come here to free slaves.
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Darth Geist
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
11/20/01 8:34am
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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Nicely put, Doright.
-----signature-----
"The key to enlightenment, then, is recognizing the basic goodness of all things.
Youth and old age, life and death, happiness and sorrow, all have their place
and we must learn to let them come and go in their time, without attachment or aversion."
- Diz
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Forward_Deploy
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
11/21/01 1:09am
Subject:
RE: The "God" Question
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Right, Lord Bane. Let me get out my handy-dandy, all-purpose Acme guidebook of Philisophical Questions that can be Answered in 100 Trillion Lines or Less. Then I'll flip through the other titles in my office that include nailbiters such as String-Theory for Dummies, Quantum Gravity at a Glance, Life in Outer Space: The Condensed Edition, and other enjoyable yet painfully brainstraining question.
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Artist formerly known as Jar_Destroyer
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