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Author	Topic: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
Moriarte Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 3/22/02 9:00pm Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control... - Date Edited: 3/22/02 9:17pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Moriarte
	"You just said it. People pull the trigger, the gun doesn't do it. That is why there should be safeguards so that the WRONG person that being a kid can't fire that weapon." SO WHAT!!! That kid will only get some other weapon, it does NOT, does NOT solve the problem you pretend to be championing. You are only suggesting something that feels good at the cost of my liberty to make my own decisions. If you re-call the inherant problem with making trigger locks mandatory and not only does it infringe of my liberty because it controls how I enact my right, but you again forget that. And who should make the rules for that class huh? Who should be appointed to know the entire truth of our rights? YOU?! No, we all interpret our rights as we will, because we have that right to chose for ourselves. To make a mandatory class to learn about your rights is folly for it can and will be rife with bias. So I suggest that if you view your rights a certain way, not to infringe on my own. They can be taught by their parents as they will, and through their own college courses chosen by themselves, that is the best way possible with the least amount of infringement. I'll be damned if someone is going to tell ME what MY rights mean to ME. For I interpret them as I do, and no one has the right to tell me otherwise. Yes, obviously you do not care to understand my arguements against it, because you are a broken record who causes me to spout the same arguement only for you to ignore it once more. A "simple" device is not going to solve your problems, for it is the PERSON, not the tool, and you would want more control on our behavior forceably than tackling the major problem which would take longer than people care for. "You cannot count on people doing these things on their own unfortunately. The only way you can do it is by lighting a match in their pocket book and say take the class or pay a fine. That is why it should be a law." You would force people to take a class to enact their rights? You would want control over us for the sake of safety? You would have the majority of responsible gun-owners take the fall for those few who abuse their rights? You do not see how your control methods will only hurt us in the long run as I have explained before, because like you said, you'll be dead before the s*** hits the fan. The fact that you don't care will this can and has lead to is horrid to say the least. Kaine: "People in Europe couldn't care less that they don't have the oh so glorious liberty of being able to buy guns." Really...well when WWII came around they begged Americans for firearms, and gun-owning citizens of this land gave guns to support your war against Germany, but then they discarded them. Don't bother to call when you need us again. "Yet you folk in America cry foil play when people try to make guns a little safer. Why do you suppose that is? People in the general public having the right to bear arms is freedom gone mad. " So the gun-owner that defends his life with a gun is mad, a police officer with a gun is mad? The mother, father, farmer, cashier etc. that defends their life with a firearm is folly? The Founding Fathers are mad that they recgonized those that have weapons have power? Spare me. "Why can't you see that? I mean, anyone planning a bank robbery could get a hold of their weaponry SO easily." Criminally easy, yes, but like I said before but you don't remember, we ALL have our rights and we have to deal with the abusers in order to keep them. Some here believe that with control equates safety, but they cost us our liberty. The more government has control over our rights, they more they have control over US. Our rights are in the Constitution to protect us from the actions of the government. It is a safegaurd that PEOPLE here take for granted, and some here believe that our government could never become corrupt, because some will be dead before that happens, but to think that way is disgusting. "Moriarte, you don't have the first idea of what its like for your rights to be taken away." So you want me to experiance it? You would want my life to be absolutely devoid of liberty? I cannot fight for the rights I have now so they will not devolve into useless words? Spare me your weak statement. If you want to live in a high crime ridden area, I will not stop you, but I fight for what I believe in. You can fight your battles, but I do not believe this is one you care for. Ohhhh, I do see the bigger picture, I have always looked to where infringement can lead, but there are those here who do not. You do not understand why the 2nd amendment is one of the most important rights we have and if you would be curious you could read the previous pages where I go into it deeply, but you won't, so...prove me wrong. The "sacrifice" you desire costs me control over myself. IF you were reading and thinking you would know I addressed why this "sacrifice" would only hurt not help. Ciou-See the Sig -----signature----- This shaking keeps me steady. I should know. What falls away is always. And is near. I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow. I learn by going where I have to go. ~Theodore Roethke~
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MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 3/22/02 9:43pm Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	Moriarte unless I'm mistaken. Most situations that happens when it comes to kids with guns came from the parents registered firearm. From accidental shootings to school shootings. The weapon came from home. Now I would rather have that kid try to get that parents gun only to find out that the trigger lock was on it and therefore not be able to use it, then like your suggesting that kid trying to find an illegal firearm somewhere with no trigger lock on it. If you make law that the trigger lock has to be on the gun and it must be in a safe location then accidental shootings and school shootings will DROP based on the situations which have already happened. It's a lot harder for a 13 or 14 year old kid to find a weapon without a trigger lock on it if it is law that it must be there. You cannot deny that. Your argument is becoming worse by the minute. What I'm asking for is not a big deal. It's a safetly procaution. Just like a background check. So your for background checks but not trigger locks? Both serve the same function. Because based on your reasoning everyone and there dog needs a gun because it's there right. So your saying people with a criminal record, or someone who has mental illness should have one also? So are we taking there liberties and rights away? Who are we to tell them they can't have one? Plus no I would not want to teach you about your rights. By the way your dead wrong on interpreting our rights anyway we want. If we did that then we would have not order at all, because one idiot out there will say well I don't want to follow that law, and then others will do the same and we have a domino effect of eventual anarchy. If that was the way it was then we wouldn't be where we were today. Our rights are broad but they do spell out what you will and will not do. You can interpret philosophy anyway you want but you cannot interpret rights anyway you want. The sooner trigger locks become law the sooner you will learn it was for the best. -----signature----- What we do in life echos in eternity
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Moriarte Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 3/22/02 10:33pm Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	"Moriarte unless I'm mistaken. Most situations that happens when it comes to kids with guns came from the parents registered firearm. From accidental shootings to school shootings. The weapon came from home." PPOR "Now I would rather have that kid try to get that parents gun only to find out that the trigger lock was on it and therefore not be able to use it, then like your suggesting that kid trying to find an illegal firearm somewhere with no trigger lock on it." Uh huh, again trading liberty for safety. IT does not help at all. "If you make law that the trigger lock has to be on the gun and it must be in a safe location then accidental shootings and school shootings will DROP based on the situations which have already happened." PPOR, and no I do not think it will. Kids need to be taught RESPECT about guns, kids need to be taught SAFETY. Putting trigger locks on weapons are NOT going to curb that anger, again your quick fix does not work. "It's a lot harder for a 13 or 14 year old kid to find a weapon without a trigger lock on it if it is law that it must be there. You cannot deny that." And you cannot deny they ineherant danger of instituting behavior control...no wait you are in denial. "Your argument is becoming worse by the minute. What I'm asking for is not a big deal." PPOR that it is, for you are only saying that because I do not proscribe myself to your weakness. "It's a safetly procaution. Just like a background check. So your for background checks but not trigger locks?" Noo, back ground checks are needed to check for a criminal record so those criminals cannot buy a firearm legally. Now trigger locks, well that is forcing me to adhere to a certain behavior. I have a RIGHT to own a firearm, I have a RIGHT to property, I have a RIGHT to do as I will concerning my actions and my RIGHTS. Thusly, I decide how I lock up MY firearms on MY property, because it is my RIGHT to do so. Again, I refer you to the NRA's position on trigger locks, but you have yet to prove to me you even read it or understand it. "Because based on your reasoning everyone and there dog needs a gun because it's there right." No, everyone has a right to own a firearm. If they decide not to own one, fine, but what you propose infringes on my mine ever so slightly. It does not matter how small it is, it is the slippery slope that you care not to witness. "So your saying people with a criminal record, or someone who has mental illness should have one also? So are we taking there liberties and rights away? Who are we to tell them they can't have one?" No, do not assume. Background checks are needed unfortunately. Criminals lose some of their rights, and mental patients well, it depends on how far their mind is retarded. "Plus no I would not want to teach you about your rights. By the way your dead wrong on interpreting our rights anyway we want." Ohhh, no, PPOR that I am wrong...come on...do it, you cannot. "If we did that then we would have not order at all, because one idiot out there will say well I don't want to follow that law, and then others will do the same and we have a domino effect of eventual anarchy." Uhh, there is a hot debate over the interpretation of the 2nd amendment, and there is still a debate over the 1st amendment...are you still going to say we do not have the power of interpretation? No, you are wrong. People can decide how they interpret their rights, but then he will have to deal with the Tyranny of the Majority, ever hear of that? It is in ALL our best interests to follow the majority, though for whether you believe it or not and to what extent is up to you. And the majority of us DO interpret our rights in the same way, so there is not a problem there. I understand what you are saying, but understand that we DO have the power to interpret our rights as we will, but the majority of us are taught them in basically the same way. And then there are those who promote change, and those who promote constancy. And no, the sooner my rights become infringed it is for the worst, because trigger locks do that by FORCING me to adhere to the governments' idea of how I use MY rights. I have that power, not they, I do as I WILL, not they. You think me folly for working so hard to stop this small step, well I call your inch by inch crawl to totalitarianism folly. But you'll be dead before that happens...but our American government would never ever be corrupt and abuse its powers...oh wait they do. Ciou-See the Sig -----signature----- This shaking keeps me steady. I should know. What falls away is always. And is near. I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow. I learn by going where I have to go. ~Theodore Roethke~
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MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 3/22/02 11:21pm Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	PPOR What the hell does that mean? "PPOR, and no I do not think it will. Kids need to be taught RESPECT about guns, kids need to be taught SAFETY. Putting trigger locks on weapons are NOT going to curb that anger, again your quick fix does not work." Never have I called it a quick fix, but it will do better then just HOPE that any good citizen will teach there kid, respect and safety for guns. It will take time to impliment the trigger locks and such and at least 2 to 3 years to see if they are working. So it's not a quick fix, but it's better than hoping for the best, rather make it law where if some kid finds his parents gun and kills two or three of his friends or classmates then not only does the kid face criminal charges but so does the parents for one not having the gun in a secured place, and two not having the trigger lock. If you knew anything about kids then you would know they love to snoop, and find the gun they will, and keeping in a dresser under some cloths or under the matress will not suffice. You know what if you had the trigger lock you could keep it under your pillow and the kid can play with it all he/she wants but it's not going to go off. "PPOR that it is, for you are only saying that because I do not proscribe myself to your weakness." What weakness. I'm not a weak minded hope for the best What if circumstance personality like you are just because you think your rights are being violated. Man you don't even what it's like to have your rights violated. I find my rights being violated by idiots out there who buy a gun and don't know how to use it. I find my 10 year old sisters rights to life being violated because some kid could easily get his parents gun and come to my sisters school and open fire on her class. So I'm not weak, but I see the ****** problem and it is that people like you will bitch and complain about your rights being violated all the while people are putting there kids and loved ones in coffins because maybe just maybe if there was another safeguard there with that gun then that child could be walking around playing today, but instead is six feet under, because people like you want to keep things the way they are and turn a cold shoulder away from a SERIOUS **** problem which is happening with kids today. Wake up and smell the ******** coffee. I will take a childs life over your silly little right any damn day of the week and twice on Sunday. Life is more important than you and others like you silly little passion for a gun which is not 100% effective in home or self defense either. "Thusly, I decide how I lock up MY firearms on MY property, because it is my RIGHT to do so." Where the hell is that written as a right in our constitution how you will lock your firearms away? You have an obligation to USE COMMON SENSE. I'm not attacking you but other morons out there who don't lock it up properly, and wind up getting people killed as a result of lack of COMMON SENSE. "I refer you to the NRA's position on trigger locks, but you have yet to prove to me you even read it or understand it" I do understand it and I think it's BS and it is BS. They find whatever they can to complain about and do it in the ever so way of being idiotic. I was a member of the NRA until I dropped my membership on this matter alone. They were idiots and there lame excuses will not work on me when it comes to protecting the life of a child over a stupid fixation on having a gun. Nobody is saying you can't own and gun, nobody saying you can't do what you want with that gun, but YOU WILL NOT KEEP THE GUN IN AREA WITH KIDS, AND YOU WILL KEEP A TRIGGER LOCK ON IT, OR PAY THE PIPER. "Background checks are needed unfortunately." That really sums you up. Your a NRA robot. Clear as day. Only a NRA extremist would say something this dumb. Somebody I believe once called you this and you got all pissed off about it. Well guess what your being called it again, because that is exactly who you are. I know people like you and I have friends like you. They are good people but when it comes to things like this they become a brick wall and become blind as well and just ignore the problem at hand. "And then there are those who promote change, and those who promote constancy." I promote reform and change, because nothing EVER stays the same except for a NRA robot. They are programed well in blindness and stupidity at the same time. That is what America is. If something isn't working or something needs to be fixed it can be, and it doesn't mean your RIGHTS are being violated, it means that those rights are being exercised in the best possible way and that by changing a right than needs refining to fit the times. You can keep your lame 18th century outdated 2nd ammendment, because it no longer applies for the reason it did back in 1790's. Look at the things we have changed in our constitution: Got rid of Slavery Women had the right to vote Prohibition was added and then deleted. It's time for a new version and refined version of EXACTLY what our right is when it comes to baring arms. Especially since were no longer dealing with Muskets and Flintlocks. Were dealing with much more dangerous, deadly, and concealable firearms. -----signature----- What we do in life echos in eternity
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MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 3/22/02 11:23pm Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	PPOR What the hell does that mean? "PPOR, and no I do not think it will. Kids need to be taught RESPECT about guns, kids need to be taught SAFETY. Putting trigger locks on weapons are NOT going to curb that anger, again your quick fix does not work." Never have I called it a quick fix, but it will do better then just HOPE that any good citizen will teach there kid, respect and safety for guns. It will take time to impliment the trigger locks and such and at least 2 to 3 years to see if they are working. So it's not a quick fix, but it's better than hoping for the best, rather make it law where if some kid finds his parents gun and kills two or three of his friends or classmates then not only does the kid face criminal charges but so does the parents for one not having the gun in a secured place, and two not having the trigger lock. If you knew anything about kids then you would know they love to snoop, and find the gun they will, and keeping in a dresser under some cloths or under the matress will not suffice. You know what if you had the trigger lock you could keep it under your pillow and the kid can play with it all he/she wants but it's not going to go off. "PPOR that it is, for you are only saying that because I do not proscribe myself to your weakness." What weakness. I'm not a weak minded hope for the best What if circumstance personality like you are just because you think your rights are being violated. Man you don't even what it's like to have your rights violated. I find my rights being violated by idiots out there who buy a gun and don't know how to use it. I find my 10 year old sisters rights to life being violated because some kid could easily get his parents gun and come to my sisters school and open fire on her class. So I'm not weak, but I see the ****** problem and it is that people like you will bitch and complain about your rights being violated all the while people are putting there kids and loved ones in coffins because maybe just maybe if there was another safeguard there with that gun then that child could be walking around playing today, but instead is six feet under, because people like you want to keep things the way they are and turn a cold shoulder away from a SERIOUS **** problem which is happening with kids today. Wake up and smell the ******** coffee. I will take a childs life over your silly little right any damn day of the week and twice on Sunday. Life is more important than you and others like you silly little passion for a gun which is not 100% effective in home or self defense either. "Thusly, I decide how I lock up MY firearms on MY property, because it is my RIGHT to do so." Where the hell is that written as a right in our constitution how you will lock your firearms away? You have an obligation to USE COMMON SENSE. I'm not attacking you but other morons out there who don't lock it up properly, and wind up getting people killed as a result of lack of COMMON SENSE. "I refer you to the NRA's position on trigger locks, but you have yet to prove to me you even read it or understand it" I do understand it and I think it's BS and it is BS. They find whatever they can to complain about and do it in the ever so way of being idiotic. I was a member of the NRA until I dropped my membership on this matter alone. They were idiots and there lame excuses will not work on me when it comes to protecting the life of a child over a stupid fixation on having a gun. Nobody is saying you can't own and gun, nobody saying you can't do what you want with that gun, but YOU WILL NOT KEEP THE GUN IN AREA WITH KIDS, AND YOU WILL KEEP A TRIGGER LOCK ON IT, OR PAY THE PIPER. "Background checks are needed unfortunately." That really sums you up. Your a NRA robot. Clear as day. Only a NRA extremist would say something this dumb. Somebody I believe once called you this and you got all pissed off about it. Well guess what your being called it again, because that is exactly who you are. I know people like you and I have friends like you. They are good people but when it comes to things like this they become a brick wall and become blind as well and just ignore the problem at hand. "And then there are those who promote change, and those who promote constancy." I promote reform and change, because nothing EVER stays the same except for a NRA robot. They are programed well in blindness and stupidity at the same time. That is what America is. If something isn't working or something needs to be fixed it can be, and it doesn't mean your RIGHTS are being violated, it means that those rights are being exercised in the best possible way and that by changing a right than needs refining to fit the times. You can keep your lame 18th century outdated 2nd ammendment, because it no longer applies for the reason it did back in 1790's. Look at the things we have changed in our constitution: Got rid of Slavery Women had the right to vote Prohibition was added and then deleted. It's time for a new version and refined version of EXACTLY what our right is when it comes to baring arms. Especially since were no longer dealing with Muskets and Flintlocks. Were dealing with much more dangerous, deadly, and concealable firearms. -----signature----- What we do in life echos in eternity
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MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 3/22/02 11:26pm Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	PPOR What the hell does that mean? "PPOR, and no I do not think it will. Kids need to be taught RESPECT about guns, kids need to be taught SAFETY. Putting trigger locks on weapons are NOT going to curb that anger, again your quick fix does not work." Never have I called it a quick fix, but it will do better then just HOPE that any good citizen will teach there kid, respect and safety for guns. It will take time to impliment the trigger locks and such and at least 2 to 3 years to see if they are working. So it's not a quick fix, but it's better than hoping for the best, rather make it law where if some kid finds his parents gun and kills two or three of his friends or classmates then not only does the kid face criminal charges but so does the parents for one not having the gun in a secured place, and two not having the trigger lock. If you knew anything about kids then you would know they love to snoop, and find the gun they will, and keeping in a dresser under some cloths or under the matress will not suffice. You know what if you had the trigger lock you could keep it under your pillow and the kid can play with it all he/she wants but it's not going to go off. "PPOR that it is, for you are only saying that because I do not proscribe myself to your weakness." What weakness. I'm not a weak minded hope for the best What if circumstance personality like you are just because you think your rights are being violated. Man you don't even what it's like to have your rights violated. I find my rights being violated by idiots out there who buy a gun and don't know how to use it. I find my 10 year old sisters rights to life being violated because some kid could easily get his parents gun and come to my sisters school and open fire on her class. So I'm not weak, but I see the ****** problem and it is that people like you will bitch and complain about your rights being violated all the while people are putting there kids and loved ones in coffins because maybe just maybe if there was another safeguard there with that gun then that child could be walking around playing today, but instead is six feet under, because people like you want to keep things the way they are and turn a cold shoulder away from a SERIOUS **** problem which is happening with kids today. Wake up and smell the ******** coffee. I will take a childs life over your silly little right any damn day of the week and twice on Sunday. Life is more important than you and others like you silly little passion for a gun which is not 100% effective in home or self defense either. "Thusly, I decide how I lock up MY firearms on MY property, because it is my RIGHT to do so." Where the hell is that written as a right in our constitution how you will lock your firearms away? You have an obligation to USE COMMON SENSE. I'm not attacking you but other morons out there who don't lock it up properly, and wind up getting people killed as a result of lack of COMMON SENSE. "I refer you to the NRA's position on trigger locks, but you have yet to prove to me you even read it or understand it" I do understand it and I think it's BS and it is BS. They find whatever they can to complain about and do it in the ever so way of being idiotic. I was a member of the NRA until I dropped my membership on this matter alone. They were idiots and there lame excuses will not work on me when it comes to protecting the life of a child over a stupid fixation on having a gun. Nobody is saying you can't own and gun, nobody saying you can't do what you want with that gun, but YOU WILL NOT KEEP THE GUN IN AREA WITH KIDS, AND YOU WILL KEEP A TRIGGER LOCK ON IT, OR PAY THE PIPER. "Background checks are needed unfortunately." That really sums you up. Your a NRA robot. Clear as day. Only a NRA extremist would say something this dumb. Somebody I believe once called you this and you got all pissed off about it. Well guess what your being called it again, because that is exactly who you are. I know people like you and I have friends like you. They are good people but when it comes to things like this they become a brick wall and become blind as well and just ignore the problem at hand. "And then there are those who promote change, and those who promote constancy." I promote reform and change, because nothing EVER stays the same except for a NRA robot. They are programed well in blindness and stupidity at the same time. That is what America is. If something isn't working or something needs to be fixed it can be, and it doesn't mean your RIGHTS are being violated, it means that those rights are being exercised in the best possible way and that by changing a right than needs refining to fit the times. You can keep your lame 18th century outdated 2nd ammendment, because it no longer applies for the reason it did back in 1790's. Look at the things we have changed in our constitution: Got rid of Slavery Women had the right to vote Prohibition was added and then deleted. It's time for a new version and refined version of EXACTLY what our right is when it comes to baring arms. Especially since were no longer dealing with Muskets and Flintlocks. Were dealing with much more dangerous, deadly, and concealable firearms. -----signature----- What we do in life echos in eternity
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MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 3/22/02 11:41pm Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control... - Date Edited: 3/22/02 11:43pm (1 edits total) Edited By: MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE
	PPOR What the hell does that mean? "PPOR, and no I do not think it will. Kids need to be taught RESPECT about guns, kids need to be taught SAFETY. Putting trigger locks on weapons are NOT going to curb that anger, again your quick fix does not work." Never have I called it a quick fix, but it will do better then just HOPE that any good citizen will teach there kid, respect and safety for guns. It will take time to impliment the trigger locks and such and at least 2 to 3 years to see if they are working. So it's not a quick fix, but it's better than hoping for the best, rather make it law where if some kid finds his parents gun and kills two or three of his friends or classmates then not only does the kid face criminal charges but so does the parents for one not having the gun in a secured place, and two not having the trigger lock. If you knew anything about kids then you would know they love to snoop, and find the gun they will, and keeping in a dresser under some cloths or under the matress will not suffice. You know what if you had the trigger lock you could keep it under your pillow and the kid can play with it all he/she wants but it's not going to go off. "PPOR that it is, for you are only saying that because I do not proscribe myself to your weakness." What weakness. I'm not a weak minded hope for the best What if circumstance personality like you are just because you think your rights are being violated. Man you don't even what it's like to have your rights violated. I find my rights being violated by idiots out there who buy a gun and don't know how to use it. I find my 10 year old sisters rights to life being violated because some kid could easily get his parents gun and come to my sisters school and open fire on her class. So I'm not weak, but I see the ****** problem and it is that people like you will bitch and complain about your rights being violated all the while people are putting there kids and loved ones in coffins because maybe just maybe if there was another safeguard there with that gun then that child could be walking around playing today, but instead is six feet under, because people like you want to keep things the way they are and turn a cold shoulder away from a SERIOUS **** problem which is happening with kids today. Wake up and smell the ******** coffee. I will take a childs life over your silly little right any damn day of the week and twice on Sunday. Life is more important than you and others like you silly little passion for a gun which is not 100% effective in home or self defense either. "Thusly, I decide how I lock up MY firearms on MY property, because it is my RIGHT to do so." Where the hell is that written as a right in our constitution how you will lock your firearms away? You have an obligation to USE COMMON SENSE. I'm not attacking you but other morons out there who don't lock it up properly, and wind up getting people killed as a result of lack of COMMON SENSE. "I refer you to the NRA's position on trigger locks, but you have yet to prove to me you even read it or understand it" I do understand it and I think it's BS and it is BS. They find whatever they can to complain about and do it in the ever so way of being idiotic. I was a member of the NRA until I dropped my membership on this matter alone. They were idiots and there lame excuses will not work on me when it comes to protecting the life of a child over a stupid fixation on having a gun. Nobody is saying you can't own and gun, nobody saying you can't do what you want with that gun, but YOU WILL NOT KEEP THE GUN IN AREA WITH KIDS, AND YOU WILL KEEP A TRIGGER LOCK ON IT, OR PAY THE PIPER. "Background checks are needed unfortunately." That really sums you up. Your a NRA robot. Clear as day. Only a NRA extremist would say something this dumb. Somebody I believe once called you this and you got all pissed off about it. Well guess what your being called it again, because that is exactly who you are. I know people like you and I have friends like you. They are good people but when it comes to things like this they become a brick wall and become blind as well and just ignore the problem at hand. "And then there are those who promote change, and those who promote constancy." I promote reform and change, because nothing EVER stays the same except for a NRA robot. They are programed well in blindness and stupidity at the same time. That is what America is. If something isn't working or something needs to be fixed it can be, and it doesn't mean your RIGHTS are being violated, it means that those rights are being exercised in the best possible way and that by changing a right than needs refining to fit the times. You can keep your lame 18th century outdated 2nd ammendment, because it no longer applies for the reason it did back in 1790's. Look at the things we have changed in our constitution: Got rid of Slavery Women had the right to vote Prohibition was added and then deleted. It's time for a new version and refined version of EXACTLY what our right is when it comes to baring arms. Especially since were no longer dealing with Muskets and Flintlocks. Were dealing with much more dangerous, deadly, and concealable firearms. SORRY DOUBLE POST -----signature----- What we do in life echos in eternity
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KaineDamo Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 3/23/02 4:45am Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	Amen to all that, brother. The right to own guns is NOT more important than the lifes of people being sacrificed again and again because of your right. -----signature----- "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" - Stan Lee Big Bro 3: Not voting for Kaine is a vote against Bush. DON'T VOTE KAINE!! Equality in fanfiction, sign the petition - http://boards.theforce.net/user.asp?usr=779058
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Moriarte Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 3/23/02 8:55pm Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	Ya know, I wrote this really long post, but I have now come to the decision you are not worth my time. You would try and paint my beliefs as not of my own, you would try and make my beliefs unworthy of respect or understanding. You would try and convince others that I don't care for the lives of others, you would try and make people believe that what I believe in is worthless and stupid. You would try and say I am blind or un-responsive to your gag "superior" reasoning. This only proves to me you have nothing worthwhile to say or think. You insult, assume, accuse and attack my character and those like me all because you believe your opinions superior to our own. We have been arguing the same things back and forth as you regurgitate the same things over and over, and now, after what you have said of me and those like me, you are proven to be worthless to talk to. Just because I do not believe or agree with you, does not make my beliefs, opinions, or arguements stupid nor does it mean my beliefs are not my own for they are, it does not mean I am blind, it does not mean I do not care, but the fact you would try and make others believe such things of me is horrid, innane, and ultimately proves your inferiority in debating by attacking me and those like me. You are not worth my time, and the reasons should be obvious, but you always miss them. You are nothing but a sock. Ciou-See the Sig -----signature----- This shaking keeps me steady. I should know. What falls away is always. And is near. I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow. I learn by going where I have to go. ~Theodore Roethke~
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KaineDamo Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 3/24/02 4:39am Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	In other words, you don't know what to say back to us. It's you that keeps bla bla bla'ing about liberties being more important than safety. In this case, the liberty to own guns being more important than the safety of people. It's YOU that have said your liberties are more important than the lifes lost. -----signature----- "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" - Stan Lee Big Bro 3: Not voting for Kaine is a vote against Bush. DON'T VOTE KAINE!! Equality in fanfiction, sign the petition - http://boards.theforce.net/user.asp?usr=779058
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MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 3/24/02 7:38pm Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	I am a senior in college and I'm currently taking an American Philosophy class and we have a term paper due on April 11. I have decided to do my topic on Gun Control and the 2nd ammendment. I will dive into the subject and when I'm done writing this paper I will post it on this site. It will take weeks of research and writing it, but so far I have the following books on the subject to help me get started. 1. More Guns Less Crime: John R. Lott, Jr. 2. Gun Control: Harry Henderson 3. Gun Control: Threat to liberty or Defense against Anarchy by Wilbur Edel 4. The Politics of Gun Control Robert J. Spitzer 5. Gun Control and the Constitution: Robert Cottrol 6. A well Regualted Militia: The battle over gun control by William Weir. 7. The Priviledge to keep and bear arms Warren Freeditan 8. The right to keep and bear arms: Earl Kruschke PhD. I will tackle both sides of the issue and then attempt to find a middle ground of where we as Americans should go in the next 100 years, because the way things are going right now is not acceptable in my eyes and in other Americans eyes when it comes to this right to bear arms. There are many view points and will give each there own due time, and then either agree or disagree with it and come up with a possible resolution. 5. -----signature----- What we do in life echos in eternity
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flagg Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 3/25/02 5:03am Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	BANG! BANG! (reloads) BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! Click. Click. Is this topic dead yet?
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JediStryker Title: TFN FanSite Reviewer Registered: Mar '00	Date Posted: 3/25/02 6:27am Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	Marine Corps General Reinwald was interviewed on the radio the other day and you have to read his reply to the lady who interviewed him concerning guns and children. Regardless of how you feel about gun laws you got to love this!!!! It is a portion of National Public Radio (NPR) interview between a female broadcaster and US Marine Corps General Reinwald who was about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military installation. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: So, General Reinwald, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base? GENERAL REINWALD: We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery, and shooting. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it? GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children? GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: But you're equipping them to become violent killers. GENERAL REINWALD: Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you? The radio went silent and the interview ended -----signature----- http://legendsofstarwars.com http://swuniverse.net
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JediSmuggler Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 3/25/02 10:47am Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control... - Date Edited: 3/25/02 10:53am (1 edits total) Edited By: JediSmuggler
	MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Might I also recommend you look over the court decision from the 5th Circuit for U.S. v. Emerson? You might also want to look at stuff written by David Kopel as well for the legal.philsophical side. Gary Kleck provides a good complement to Lott on the practical side of gun control as well. Robert Wright, too ("Under the Gun" and "Armed and Considered Dangerous"). KaineDamo: The fact is, I have responded. The misuse of guns by others has no bearing on my rights to own guns anymore than somebody yelling "fire" in a crowded theater has with regards to my right to speak my mind about politicans in this country. Those who misuse guns give up that right through their misuse. I have no problem with that. I have a problem when I have the right taken away from me when I have done nothing wrong. If you cannot grasp that concept, or understand why a number of people would feel very strongly about such a thing, then further debate would be pointless. -----signature----- JediSmuggler/RogueJai collaboration: Shades of the Force http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=1349946 -- Why did the Nazgul run from Arwen's flash flood? All they managed to do was to end up dying tired.
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MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 3/25/02 5:46pm Subject: RE: ok people..the smoking Gun...your take on Gun control...
	I've heard that interview before. You know I don't have a problem with a kid learning how to use a gun. I encourage it. I like the fact that before they EVEN TOUCH the gun they will be trained. That is how it should be with everyone who thinks they need a gun and that is what I've been talking about for the past page. Mandatory gun training, and trigger locks. You know I can always become a real ahole about this whole topic and say if you purist want to go word for word that the 2nd amendment states then people should only own Muskets and Flintlocks. That was the weapon used up until 1865. Plus no where in the 2nd amendment does it say that people have the right to have a concealed weapons permits and such. So basically if you want to stick to it then you get the firepower available at the time and not semi and automatic weapons. I don't want to hear that the amendment was broad and stuff. It clearly states what it set out to say. That a militia which was constructed out citizens have the right to bear arms, because what good is it to have a militia if your citizens who make up the militia can't have a weapon. Plus it says "When necessary" so unless there is some war going on then the need to keep and bear arms isnt' needed. -----signature----- What we do in life echos in eternity
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