| Author |
Topic:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
DARTHPIGFEET
Registered:
Jan '01
|
Date Posted:
4/25/02 10:11pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
Here is the big problem I have with legalizing it. Some not all people who sell Pot also dable in other drugs like Crack and Heroin. Just today a man was arrested in Florida for selling Pot to kids on school grounds. When they got to his house they found not only Pot, but Crack, Herion, and ecstasy pills and such. So you see by legalizing it will only make these dealers jobs easier.
While sure there are some small time local Pot growers who just sell Pot, the reality is that the more dangerous drugs are sold with Pot and these people are not going to pack up and say "Well I guess I'm out of business."
-----signature-----
Two mice fell in a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly gave up and drowned. The second mouse didn't give up and eventually turned that cream into butter. I Darthpigfeet am glad to say that I was the person who ate that butter.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
heavygear6
Registered:
Jul '01
|
Date Posted:
4/26/02 12:51pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
- Date Edited:
4/26/02 1:09pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
heavygear6
|
I have to disagree Pigfeet
First: If it were legal, there would be NO NEED for these so called dealers to sell it. It wouldn't be profitable. The only reason its so expensive in the first place is because it is illegal. Your response shows me that you don't understand supply and demand very well. No insult intended... Point: You take the profit out of it, you stop illegal sales cold.
Second: It would be taxed. If its taxed, you need a TAX STAMP. Just like on a pack of cigarettes. Have you ever seen what the state/government does to people selling cigs without tax stamps?
Edit:
Just noticed this: "the reality is that the more dangerous drugs are sold with Pot"
I'm sorry this is just plain FALSE.
I've been in and out of the whole drug game for years. (granted I'm not proud of this, however...)
In my experience, drug dealers who sell hard drugs such as coke and heroin DO NOT SELL POT. Face it, pot STINKS. It has a very dicernable smell. A dealer who is selling hard stuff isn't goin to jepordize getting caught with these hard drugs just because he has a smelly bag of pot on him.
I haven't met one dealer of pot who sold hard drugs, at least not at the same time. Trust me, they don't mix well, and dealers AVOID selling pot if they are into selling these other drugs.
Its just not worth the risk. Pot laws, however harsh are not as bad as laws against other narcotics, at least in most states. I'm sorry Pigfeet but if your goin to argue against legalization, please make some better arguments. All you have done so far is show me how much ignorence surrounding this issue there really is out there. Please don't take that the wrong way, I'm not flaming you, ignorence = not knowing, not stupidty. You are obviously very intelligent. You just don't have all the facts......
Remember:
"The best mind-altering drug is truth." - Jane Wagner
"The search for truth is more precious than its possession." - Albert Einstein
-----signature-----
I shall evolve, you however
will make an excellent quiche....
Acid yellow starberries sink softly upon a warm aqua frost.
I can't manage the suspension of disbelief necessary for feigned cheerfulness
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Dath_BigGAME
Registered:
Aug '01
|
Date Posted:
4/26/02 2:31pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
The governement is lying to you. I have done it long enough. I am a Computer Systems Engineer. I don't have the problems with it that you guys' report from the "GOVERNMENT" said that I would. How long does it take 20 years? Not to read "THEIR" reports huh?
If you use it for a few months, you will see that they are lying. I speak from experience. I still remember things. I still troubleshoot PC's at a high success rate. Don't believe everything they tell you.
Remember all of the untrue propoganda they spread in Afganistan? I hate bin Laden, but the picture that they dropped over the country of him in a business suit was a lie. They lie to everyone all the time. This is how they make money. If you could be president by lying you would. Look at the $$$ involoved. Don't be so !@#$ing nieve.
-----signature-----
Vader: Know what it feels like to become one with the Force?
Mace: Can't say that I do... //gulp//
Vader: I'm your Huckleberry...
The pains of the past make the joys of the present much more enjoyable.--ArtMaul...
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
heavygear6
Registered:
Jul '01
|
Date Posted:
4/26/02 3:30pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
sorry, couldn't resist.
Please, carry on....
-----signature-----
I shall evolve, you however
will make an excellent quiche....
Acid yellow starberries sink softly upon a warm aqua frost.
I can't manage the suspension of disbelief necessary for feigned cheerfulness
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
|
Date Posted:
4/26/02 4:59pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
The governement is lying to you. I have done it long enough. I am a Computer Systems Engineer. I don't have the problems with it that you guys' report from the "GOVERNMENT" said that I would. How long does it take 20 years? Not to read "THEIR" reports huh?
I am trained as a physicist and engineer. I have gained extensive training in analysing data and statistics. I have seen the results (as in the raw data) of some of the studies myself and know people who have performed some of the studies. Moreover, my own personal observations of friends and acquaintances who use marijuana also tend to agree with the studies findings (although there are some exceptions). That data is not a collection of lies.
You cite yourself as an example that the studies are wrong. However, that is not sufficient statistical proof. As a Computer Systems Engineer, you should know statistics well enough to recognize that. You would need to provide a well-distributed, random sampling of marijuana users (something that one person can never be by themself) in order to try and disprove it. The studies do not say "in all cases". The closest they come is "in most cases" or "in many cases".
Remember all of the untrue propoganda they spread in Afganistan? I hate bin Laden, but the picture that they dropped over the country of him in a business suit was a lie. They lie to everyone all the time. This is how they make money. If you could be president by lying you would. Look at the $$$ involoved. Don't be so !@#$ing nieve.
First, there is no need for swearing, even with the symbols in place. Second, by the money argument, you would think that politicians would be rushing to legalize marijuana. After all, they only stand to benefit from all the taxes they could bring in from it. Not to mention the savings in drug enforcement.
Yes, I look at the money involved, and it seems that the politicians are not making much money off of marijuana at all. Why would they lie about marijuana if they could make so much more money off of telling the "truth"?
Kimball Kinnison
-----signature-----
You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
GeistDesFritz
Registered:
Mar '02
|
Date Posted:
4/26/02 5:06pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
Hey, Marijuana doesn't have to be smoked. You can put it in foods or use it in tea. In Thailand it's used as a spice. Boy, I bet the Thais are going to be surprised when they have a sudden rise in tourism  .
Besides, by making marijuana illegal, we're wasting what could be a very profitible business. Hemp makes very strong rope and many other things (like sandles, shampoo, just to name a few.) In Western Kansas, marijuana can grow as high as a tree but farmers out there aren't allowed to touch it even though there is only a negilible THC content. These farmers could make a heck of a business if they could harvet hemp and some low THC content pot.
-----signature-----
Life. Don't talk to me about life.
--Marvin the paranoid android
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Kessel Runner
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Apr '99
|
Date Posted:
4/26/02 5:10pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
True, it doesn't have to be smoked, but for the THC to be activated for pain relief, it does need to be heated, and smoking is the only effective way for that at this time (yes, there are studies for this).
and, we don't tolerate swearing, especially at the Senate Floor, even if it is &%$#) If you can't make your point without inserting such heated emotions, then maybe you should step away for a moment...
-----signature-----
Proud Father of My Precious Little Girl
Eliza Joy
Born 11:50 PM 3/8/08
6 pounds 12 ounces
18 inches of Love
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE
Registered:
Jan '02
|
Date Posted:
4/26/02 8:22pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
- Date Edited:
4/26/02 9:13pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE
|
"Just today a man was arrested in Florida for selling Pot to kids on school grounds. When they got to his house they found not only Pot, but Crack, Herion, and ecstasy pills and such."
Heavygear I guess you never have met this dealer then, because this is exactly what they found in his house. He was a major dealer.
This is how it breaks down.
You Legalize it. What age should it be allowed to be smoked. My guess 21 years just like Alcohol. Great like we didn't have enough substanse abuse problems already with alcohol and you want to make it readily available.
Also it is taxed and is made expensive. First off some who will not pay this high price will stay with their old suppliers and such. Plus you know it will be a watered down version of it that the government sells, so some people will not like this either.
Your opening the door to more people getting a dependence on a control substance. Your opening the door to make it easy for someone to buy and get addicted to it. Cigarettes are bad enough. Why have this now?
Plus your opening the door to having more drugs being legalized. Sorry but I will not have a piece of that pie at all. Basically we have enough problems already with people who drink, smoke and people addicted to pain killers and such, why add to the fire?
-----signature-----
What we do in life echos in eternity
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Kessel Runner
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Apr '99
|
Date Posted:
4/27/02 2:48pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
|
BEEFCAKE, it is abused now, and it is illegal. The key difference is that, if legalized, that also means it can be taxed, regulated, and rehabiltation programs can be funded by the govt. Unlike now, when a drug user is not treated, but rather imprisoned, where he can graduate to harder drugs, and receive no treatment.
-----signature-----
Proud Father of My Precious Little Girl
Eliza Joy
Born 11:50 PM 3/8/08
6 pounds 12 ounces
18 inches of Love
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Waning Drill
Registered:
Dec '99
|
Date Posted:
4/27/02 4:35pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
Here's an idea:
Legalize the substance, but make smoking it illegal.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
|
Date Posted:
4/27/02 5:46pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
The key difference is that, if legalized, that also means it can be taxed, regulated, and rehabiltation programs can be funded by the govt.
Excuse me? What government funded rehabilitation programs are there for users of "legal drugs" (like alcohol and tobacco)? Most of the rehab programs I've seen are privately funded. Additionally, I've seen drug rehabilitation programs (for marijuana as well as harder drugs) that are government funded.
If the government legalized marijuana, it would have no reason to start rehabilitation programs for it. If it's legal, why would a person need to stop? The government doesn't run tobacco rehab programs, it just forces labels to be put on the packages stating some of the dangers of using it. The government does provide alcohol rehabilitation, but then only in cases of drunk driving (or similar offenses). Even then, it usually refers people to a private organization like AA.
Legalizing marijuana will not undo the harm that it causes to those who use it. Those people would most likely not receive any rehabilitation for using a legal substance (unless it played a part in another crime). Marijuana is a harmful drug. Many studies have shown that. It is irrelevant that alcohol and tobacco are also harmless (I am against the use of both). Just because they are currently legal does not mean that any or all other mind-altering substances should be legal as well.
Unlike now, when a drug user is not treated, but rather imprisoned, where he can graduate to harder drugs, and receive no treatment.
This varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I have friends who have been arrested for possesion and/or use of illegal drugs. For their punishment, they received court-ordered rehabilitation programs and probation. They received medical attention instead of a jail term. It is repeat offenders who face jail terms.
If the laws are different where you live, why not work so that those who break the law get medical attention instead of jail time? It would not be necessary to make marijuana legal in order to address this issue.
Kimball Kinnison
-----signature-----
You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE
Registered:
Jan '02
|
Date Posted:
4/27/02 7:28pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
Exactly. The only time you recieve jail time is if you are a repeat offender. Other reasons why you would be arrested is if the circumstances call for it. Such as disturbing the peace, or basically your high as a kite and have no business being out in public in the condition your in. Other reasons why you will be locked up.
Violation of parole or probation
Selling a controlled substance within 1000 yards of a school or church will get you locked up for sure.
Most people when Pot is found on them are given a court date and told to seek treatment, pay a fine, or put on probation.
What people don't understand is "No" means "No" and that is final. The same goes for driving drunk, or public intoxication. You cannot do that, and if you do then your going to jail. Simple as that. Legalizing the problem will not solve the problem.
Plus our government is not going to create a drug treatment program. I love how some people want to legalize it and want a drug treatment program to go along with it. I thought you all thought it was harmless. Why would you need a drug treatment program?
-----signature-----
What we do in life echos in eternity
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Kessel Runner
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Apr '99
|
Date Posted:
4/27/02 7:44pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
Until very recently, a Reagan implemented mandatory term in prison for possession was in force for all drugs, including marijuana.
Before anyone decides to categorize me as some stoner who just wants his pot, understand this. I have never used a single drug, I despise smoking of any kind, and drinking for that matter. I have had family members kill themselves in prison, from withdrawls, one introduced her kids to smoking pot when they were 6 years old, an uncle who had a serious cocaine problem, his son subsequently fell into crank. I am one of the most outspoken detractors of recreational drug use.
But to outright dismiss the benefits of medicinally necessary marijuana is to simply ignore anecdotal and scientific evidence of its benefit.
-----signature-----
Proud Father of My Precious Little Girl
Eliza Joy
Born 11:50 PM 3/8/08
6 pounds 12 ounces
18 inches of Love
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
|
Date Posted:
4/28/02 7:52am
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
|
But to outright dismiss the benefits of medicinally necessary marijuana is to simply ignore anecdotal and scientific evidence of its benefit.
Have I ever said I was agianst using marijuana for medical purposes? No. I am against the use of any drug for recreational use.
Let me give you a little of my perspective on this. I am prescribed a drug know as methylphenidate (I think I spelled that correctly). This drug is one of the family of drugs that is commonly known as "speed". This family also includes crystal meth and other mind-altering drugs. In case you didn't know, methylphenidate is also known a Ritalin. I take it for ADHD.
I use it under tightly controlled dosages and with a doctor's supervision. When properly used and controlled by a doctor, I have no problem with the use of any drug. I've said before that I am against tobacco and alcohol. You can use tobacco leaves to reduce the effect of bruising. Alcohol is a wonderful antiseptic (and great for cleaning wood when making pens).
When used properly I have no problems with it. It is the recreational use or abuse) of drugs that I am against.
Kimball Kinnison
-----signature-----
You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
heavygear6
Registered:
Jul '01
|
Date Posted:
4/28/02 4:18pm
Subject:
RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems
- Date Edited:
4/28/02 4:42pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
heavygear6
|
"caffeine, which is chemically addictive." - Do you drink coffee? Because you said you didn't support the use of any recreational drug. Also the use of ANY legal drug should be left up to the individual. And people who deny the legalization of any substance because they do not believe in the recreational use of ANY drug, is UNWARRENTED, and UNFAIR. Recreational use is not ABUSE. (I'm not implying that you said it was)
"I am getting sick of hearing this inaccurate statement. It is wrong. Marijuana is addictive. It is just not chemically addictive." - Bingo 
"Excuse me it is very addictive" - Have you ever tried it? I'd like to hear from some people who have personal experience. I'll I've seen, and heard is a bunch of people spouting stuff they've read in books or seen on TV, or the net. I don't take anybodies word for ANYTHING. I was in DARE in school, and half of what was said was scare tactics, NOT TRUTHS. I'd like to add: Out of all the drugs I've done in my life, illegal and legal, marijuana is the ONLY one that is currently illegal that I feel should be legal. DARE is one of the reasons why I believe marijuana has falsley been labled a gateway drug. Kids will experiment, this is fact. And after finding out pot is nothing like they were taught, they get the itch to find out about other substances. I know I did, and most of my schoolmates did. And what a surprise it was too find out that most of the horror stories we were told about other drugs WERE true.
"forced drug treatment" I hope you didn't meen for pot, counseling maybe, but forced drug treatment for pot is a JOKE.
Edit:
anakin_girl wrote on the first page: "I have never heard of anyone hooked on drugs who was not also addicted to alcohol." - Well consider me the first. I was a herione addict at one point in my life. Its not something I share very often with people, especially over the internet. I do drink alcohol, but a sixpack of Bud will sit in fridge for weeks before I finally drink the last can. And I rarely drink more then two in a night. Granted I drank alot on my recent trip out of state, but I was surrounded by people who drink everyday. And I was just doing as the Romans do.
Kessel Runner wrote under her post: "Have you ever met someone who smoked marijuana or used any other drug who didn't smoke cigarettes first?" - Again, consider me the first. I CAN'T STAND CIGARETTES. They are nasty, smell bad, and taste worse.
Sate_Pestage wrote: "I doubt most of you would want it legalized after you saw the outcome! It would be regulated and controlled by the Govt. The price would go way up because of the taxation placed on it. The restrictions placed on it by law enforcement would be mind-boggleing and I bet it would lose a lot of its luster once it was legalized.
" - Take a look at Holland, and tell me this again.
-----signature-----
I shall evolve, you however
will make an excellent quiche....
Acid yellow starberries sink softly upon a warm aqua frost.
I can't manage the suspension of disbelief necessary for feigned cheerfulness
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
