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Author	Topic: What is your denomination?
keiran_helcyan Registered: Dec '99	Date Posted: 1/8/02 6:32am Subject: RE: What is your denomination?
	Byzantine Catholic? Is that another name for Eastern Orthodox? Or just another branch of Roman Catholicism? -----signature----- We're just two lost souls swimmin' in a fish bowl, year after year. Running over the same old ground, Have you found the same old fears? Wish you were here.
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Ransom Registered: Jan '01	Date Posted: 1/8/02 7:18am Subject: RE: What is your denomination? - Date Edited: 1/8/02 8:18am (1 edits total) Edited By: Ransom
	I follow Mark Twain (figuratively, of course), who said that we have just enough religion to make us hate each other, but not enough to make us love each other. This thread is a living testament to that. What is the point of fighting over a label? It's the worst kind of semantic nonsense. I'm not trivializing the theological disagreements. They are deep and significant, and probably irreconciliable. What I'm saying is that there is nothing to gain by fighting over the definition of "Christian." Some (or all?) of the different religious denominations are wrong -- appending or a removing a particular label does not affect the truth of the belief. Fighting over labels is just an indirect way to fight about the truth of the beliefs. If you wish to do that, do it directly.
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GreedoCMZ Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 1/8/02 1:05pm Subject: RE: What is your denomination? - Date Edited: 1/8/02 1:09pm (1 edits total) Edited By: GreedoCMZ
	Yep, that's what I'm saying. If I can say, "There may be some differences in our belief systems but I still respect you as a fellow Christian," it just cracks me up or bemuses or bewilders me or confuses me that the same respect cannot be reciprocated. I won't feel any more validated as a Christian if InnocentIII chooses to affix that label to me. -----signature----- Member of Inside Report I tolerate Jar Jar so bad I can't stand it. http://www.pitdroids.net
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Coolguy4522 Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 1/8/02 2:24pm Subject: RE: What is your denomination?
	I don't need to be validated by anyone either. I just think that the false notions should be disembled and shown the truth. Now BC, you obviously don't understand anything about The Church of Jesus Christ, and if you did, you would know that we belive that the true church of Christ was lost soon after he died. This means that we don't belive that the people who wrote the Creeds were anything but trying to make sense of the Bible. We don't claim to be part of your church, which is already divided enouph, rather, we simply proclaim that we belive in Christ and his sacrifice. Why should anything more be attached to being a "Christian." Perhaps you should make up a new word like "TrinityanrianChristain" or some such to differentiate between the two, as apparently you must. BTW, the reason I write this is not to inform the one calling me(or not calling me) something, but rather to inform anybody else that reads this. I couldn't care less what InnocentIII thinks. -----signature----- http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9777663&replies=7 -My farewell thread The Senate Floor: A Higher form of flaming! (and fun) Green Apples!
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InnocentIII Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 1/8/02 5:38pm Subject: RE: What is your denomination?
	Byzantine Catholicism is a sect of Catholicism. Roman Catholicism is by far the largest sect of Catholicism, but there are a few others, like Byzantine and Ukrainian. They are mostly made up of Eastern Orthodox types who have rejoined into communion with the Holy Mother Church in Rome. -----signature----- "Enter upon the road to the Holy Sepulchre, wrest that land from the wicked race..." -Bl. Pope Urban II "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
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Cailina Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 1/8/02 8:22pm Subject: RE: What is your denomination? - Date Edited: 1/8/02 8:27pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Cailina
	"To be tolerant of religions and cults that promote a sinful wicked lifestyle, would create a conflict of interest and do the example of Christ and God's followers a disservice." Would you please explain to me what aspects of Wicca promote a sinful and wicked lifestyle? "2 Chronicles 33:5-7 Also he caused his sons to pass through the fire in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom; he practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft and sorcery, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to anger." That quote refers to the definition of witchcraft which is similar to sorcery...not the Witchcraft that some Wiccans practice. "Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Sorcery is not the same thing as the Witchcraft that some Wiccans practice. Also Wylding there is an error in the definition of Witchcraft in the Merriem-Webster dictionary. Wiccans will tell you that Wicca is not the definition of WitchCraft. Some but not all Wiccans are Witches and some but not all Witches are Wiccans. You don't have to be a Witch to be Wiccan and vice versa. Wicca is not the same as the witchcraft warned about in the bible becuase they do not practice sorcery at all nor are they necessarily even witches. There are also some things with the "definition" of Wicca which are not accurate but I don't have time to go into them now. "If I can say, 'There may be some differences in our belief systems but I still respect you as a fellow Christian,' it just cracks me up or bemuses or bewilders me or confuses me that the same respect cannot be reciprocated." How about if I say, "There are differences in our belief systems but I respect you as a fellow human being"? Will I get the same respect reciprocated. -----signature----- Head Staff for MomoCon, GA Tech`s Free Anime and Gaming Convention Visit www.momocon.com for more information
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GreedoCMZ Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 1/8/02 11:29pm Subject: RE: What is your denomination?
	From me you will. -----signature----- Member of Inside Report I tolerate Jar Jar so bad I can't stand it. http://www.pitdroids.net
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Wylding Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 1/9/02 1:19am Subject: RE: What is your denomination? - Date Edited: 1/9/02 1:55am (2 edits total) Edited By: Wylding
	Callina, you have asked some interesting things. Since you have asked for my personal opinion I will spare you nothing Would you please explain to me what aspects of Wicca promote a sinful and wicked lifestyle? Sure I'll explain that. In fact, since you asked my personal opinion, I will explain to you how any lifestyle--including a "Christian," lifestyle could be wicked and sinful. To not be wicked and sinful, one must follow the commands of God and know what he requires. To do this we must go to the best source we have avaliable, which in my case is the bible: Deuteronomy 10:12-21 "And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments of the LORD and His statutes which I command you today for your good? Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the LORD your God, also the earth with all that is in it. The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day. Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer. For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe. He administers justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the stranger, giving him food and clothing. Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve Him, and to Him you shall hold fast, and take oaths in His name. He is your praise, and He is your God, who has done for you these great and awesome things which your eyes have seen." Pretty straight forward, unless you don't know the ten commandments that God gave to man: Exodus 20:1-17 'And God spoke all these words, saying: "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. "You shall have no other gods before Me. "You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you. "You shall not murder. "You shall not commit adultery. "You shall not steal. "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's."' Now some say that we are no longer under the law, but rather Christ came to destroy our need to follow the law. This is not true: Matthew 5:16-18 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." Chronicles 33:5-7 Also he caused his sons to pass through the fire in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom; he practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft and sorcery, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to anger." That quote refers to the definition of witchcraft which is similar to sorcery...not the Witchcraft that some Wiccans practice. Note that the words witchcraft and sorcery are seperated by the conjuction "and." This denotes that they are treated as seperate and complete entities and are thus different. Also, I believe, that Wicca does place emphasis on Gaia as the Goddess. This is against God's laws. I believe that Wicca makes use of spells. This would be considered by some as sorcery. I believe that wicca does engage in aspects of astrology which is divination by means of the stars. Divination of any kind is warned against in the bible and forbidden to those who would follow the Diviner of diviners. As a matter of fact I think I posted those texts in a previous post so I won't cite them here. Also Wylding there is an error in the definition of Witchcraft in the Merriem-Webster dictionary. Wiccans will tell you that Wicca is not the definition of WitchCraft. Some but not all Wiccans are Witches and some but not all Witches are Wiccans. You don't have to be a Witch to be Wiccan and vice versa. Interesting. Wicca is not the same as the witchcraft warned about in the bible becuase they do not practice sorcery at all nor are they necessarily even witches. See my above statements. Also, it's not the fact that they are witches per se, but that they follow and adhere to a way of life and worship that is not pleasing to God. God desires people who want to follow Him and in my opinion will reward those who follow Him and obey His laws. There are also some things with the "definition" of Wicca which are not accurate but I don't have time to go into them now. Very well. "If I can say, 'There may be some differences in our belief systems but I still respect you as a fellow Christian,' it just cracks me up or bemuses or bewilders me or confuses me that the same respect cannot be reciprocated." How about if I say, "There are differences in our belief systems but I respect you as a fellow human being"? Will I get the same respect reciprocated. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Christ is my guru. I would not be a good imitator of the Master of masters nor a good intiate if I did not love my fellow man. I lament your decision to turn away from the God of gods, but that is your choice and I love you as a potential intiate. However, I hate any lifestyle that is a non-Christ/God based lifestyle; a lifestyle that emphasizes the inherent good of man (which is a joke in my opinion), or emphasizes the things of creation over the Creator of all. This does not mean I hate the person living that lifestyle, indeed I am commanded to love that person and I try. However, I am just a man and I have fallen short many times, but I will keep trying. A note on my personal beliefs since you may be interested (I could be wrong): It's not that God is this tyrant up there demanding everything in a certain fashion for his pleasure, but rather that we are alive by His Fire. His Breath of Life. Ki, Chi, Prana, The Force...call it what you will. This small part of the Force cannot stay apart from the Greater Flame forever and must return to it and thus we die. That is sin: the seperation from God by deed, thought or act and thus death that awaits apart from God. Now God sought to rememdy this by giving us His Son as a living example of how we should live. Since none can ever be sinless in the sight of God we must accept Christ as our stand in. When we choose this Great Gift freely, God views us as he does Christ, because this was the function of Christ--to save all humanity from it's nature and replace human-nature with God-nature. Then our Spark can rejoin the Great Flame and be forever in the place of the Most High without loss of consciousness. For this is the fate(everlasting unconsciousness/unknowing) of those who have not accepted the Gift and dawned God-nature through the great Master of masters. So you see it is not that God is unloving or unkind to those who choose to live apart from him, but that their very nature is their destruction. In anticipation of your next question, yes, I believe that the only way back to the Great Flame is through Christ, but I believe that He (Christ) is revealed to many in non-tradtional ways to those who don't have the benefit of foreknowledge of his teachings. Since we have His account and His teaching written down for us. I figure that it is wise to study and open my heart. -----signature----- Jedi Master
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Wedges_Wingman Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 1/9/02 2:28am Subject: RE: What is your denomination?
	Practicing Anglican. -----signature----- "I find your lack of faith disturbing." -Providing Randomness since 1982
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Wylding Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 1/9/02 2:41am Subject: RE: What is your denomination?
	I consider myself a Christian with some Buddhist, Taoist, and Kriya Yogic beliefs mixed in here and there. -----signature----- Jedi Master
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No blasters! Registered: Feb '00	Date Posted: 1/9/02 6:28am Subject: RE: What is your denomination?
	"The Church ALONE has the authority, responsibility, and privilege to interpret the Bible. This is clearly seen with the Nicene and Apostles Creeds, as well as Church actions even unto today." Which church? Not mine. We seek understanding through personal interpretation. "People who have the ego, the utter audacity and false piety to believe that they can interpret the Holy Word of God are fools, and the disavowing of the Creeds, as well as the Ecumenical Councils of the Church, is grounding for NOT being considered a member of the Holy Immaculate Body of Jesus Christ, The Church." Oh, that church. Well, I think since we all have brains, free will and a heart, then it's up to us to read, interpret and understand the world and our own spirituality. I don't consider such individuals "fools", but rather, seekers. At any rate, I try not to bash anyone else's spiritual beliefs since they are as keenly felt as my own and we don't know what the real story is, do we? -----signature----- If you're going through Hell, keep going.
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InnocentIII Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 1/9/02 12:55pm Subject: RE: What is your denomination?
	"Comparing a Wiccan to a murderer? What a tool." I would consider Wiccans muderers of souls. "Which church? Not mine. We seek understanding through personal interpretation. " I'm sorry. Churches like yours lead to heresies and people going to Hell. And when someone says Church, it's usually about the Catholic Church. Or else, it should be. -----signature----- "Enter upon the road to the Holy Sepulchre, wrest that land from the wicked race..." -Bl. Pope Urban II "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
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The Musical Jedi Registered: Dec '99	Date Posted: 1/9/02 12:57pm Subject: RE: What is your denomination?
	I'm a Presbyterian (PCUSA), although I'm a little loathe to jump in this, I guess I will. First of all, considering a practicing Christian, I can't really understand all this flaming and name-calling. For instance, I'm going to use the example of Wiccan. If I offend someone, please let me know and I will apologize and clarify, because I really don't want to flame or offend. I don't believe in the Wiccan beliefs. That's probably apparent by the fact I consider myself a Christian. However, since Christians are not supposed to judge (I can find the Biblical references if someone requests them, though not at this exact moment), I don't think it is my job to thus declare them workers of Satan or anything of that sort. It's not my responsibility to condemn them. If a person who practices Wiccan is a just and moral person, I would personally like to commend them, because I know many Christians who would not fit under those catagories! My personal method of evangelism is to discuss my beliefs evenly at such times as will serve a good purpose and to live my life as close to my beliefs as I can. However, I refuse to play God and decide who is and isn't going to Heaven by flaming other people. It only hurts feelings and alienates other people from Christianity. However, I am perfectly content to discuss doctrines of certain denominations and religions, on the understanding that I don't like certain ideas, not types of people. -----signature----- Real heroes were like the characters in that man Tolkien's story, who did what they had to even if they hated it, even if it took their own lives away from them. -- Otherland: Mountain of Black Glass, Tad Williams --- Lord help our Colts.
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keiran_helcyan Registered: Dec '99	Date Posted: 1/9/02 1:04pm Subject: RE: What is your denomination?
	"However, since Christians are not supposed to judge (I can find the Biblical references if someone requests them, though not at this exact moment)" Matthew 7 1-5 (NIV) "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." A very good passage. -----signature----- We're just two lost souls swimmin' in a fish bowl, year after year. Running over the same old ground, Have you found the same old fears? Wish you were here.
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Coolguy4522 Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 1/9/02 2:50pm Subject: RE: What is your denomination? - Date Edited: 1/9/02 3:42pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Coolguy4522
	You cannot judge someone by judging them in the eternal perspective. You cannot judge someone by saying "All wiccans are going to Hell", but you can judge someone by saying, "those wiccans are a bunch of nuts and I don't want to hang out with them" There is a difference. Edit: I am not saying that the view that they are nuts is correct, I am just stating that can be your personal view and judge them like that. Everyone has a right to have stupid opinions, even anti-semitic nazis. -----signature----- http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9777663&replies=7 -My farewell thread The Senate Floor: A Higher form of flaming! (and fun) Green Apples!
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