| Author |
Topic:
Mormonism
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 3:47pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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I think it'd be absolutely ridiculous to argue that its not separation of church and state. Someone would, to be sure, but its got no basis.
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Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 3:50pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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darthdrago posted:
I didn't know which thread to post this in, but this one seems most appropriate:
For the sake of argument, say Mitt Romney is elected. Since all practicing Mormons are required to tithe 10% of their annual income back to the church, do you think Romney would then dutifully tithe 10% of his chief executive salary back to the LDS? Or would he be allowed to skip this obligation, since you know there will be a chorus of boos from opponents (possibly arguing that government money is being directly deposited into the coffers of a religion >>> separation of church & state issues)? Or do you think Romney would just forgo the presidential salary altogether?
I see no reason why whether a President (of any religion) chooses to tithe of his income to his church would be anyone's business but his own.
As for the argument that it is depositing government money into religious coffers, that is utterly specious. His salary as President is no different (except in amount) than that of any other federal employee. Harry Reid, Orrin Hatch, and the other LDS elected officials in Washington aren't prohibited from paying tithing because they work for the government, nor are any federal employees or contractors. Once the money is paid to them, it is their money, and they can do with it as they see fit.
Kimball Kinnison
-----signature-----
You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 7:52pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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darthdrago posted:
I didn't know which thread to post this in, but this one seems most appropriate:
For the sake of argument, say Mitt Romney is elected. Since all practicing Mormons are required to tithe 10% of their annual income back to the church, do you think Romney would then dutifully tithe 10% of his chief executive salary back to the LDS? Or would he be allowed to skip this obligation, since you know there will be a chorus of boos from opponents (possibly arguing that government money is being directly deposited into the coffers of a religion >>> separation of church & state issues)? Or do you think Romney would just forgo the presidential salary altogether?
Um, yeah. That's bullcrap.
Never before has anyone's federal salary been a battlefield of separation of church and state.
Does anyone ask if George Bush tithes to his church (as the Bible commands)? Or about Bill Clinton? No. It's their money. It's not the government's anymore.
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Even God has a Mommy.
Are we all to you lost causes?
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 9:33pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi posted:
Does anyone ask if George Bush tithes to his church (as the Bible commands)?
Except that most of the people who voted for Bush WANTED him to be a puppet of the Religious Right. 
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Lane_Winree
Registered:
Mar '06
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 10:06pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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That's a rather broad, general statement.
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 10:16pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Well, it certainly applies to the majority of Bush supporters I'VE ever met...
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Lane_Winree
Registered:
Mar '06
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 10:51pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Fair enough. After all, the majority of people who supported Kerry in 2004 were pinko-commies who wanted to do away with the free-market economy. No room for middle ground in the good ol' US of A.
I was reading through the local newspaper today and saw that my senior year English teacher in high school had just been fired. I suddenly flashed back to an assignment she had given us: write a two page paper on the dangers racism caused by religion based on the text provided. She gave us a five page essay a former student of hers had written comparing the LDS church to the KKK. I tried to dispute some of the "facts" with her, but she accused me of being a religious zealot, cultist, and a racist (that's right, I'm a minority that hates minorities -_- ). Sadly, I backed down immediately and shut up, since my defining trait is being a spineless coward.
Granted, this teacher was more than off her rocker (I swear she'd show up baked to class 3/5 days a week). Still, I wish I had actually stood up to her. Instead I just didn't turn anything in. She got away with the assignment scott free. Marvelous what tenure can accomplish, huh?
I'm not sure what this little anecdote proves, I just felt like venting. That was just one incident of many with this teacher during the year.
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 11:11pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Those weren't Bush supporters you met, but rather undercover Kucinichians...
Seriously though JKH, you know the focus we like to keep in here. Making jokes is one thing, but let's not define an entire group by a single characteristic. It tends to take the thread off topic... 
-----signature-----
When you enter a room full of armed men, shoot the first person who makes a move-
hostile or otherwise
He has started to think and is therefore dangerous...
-- Colonel "Paddy" Mayne, co-founder of the SAS
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 11:25pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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OK, well maybe 'puppet' was a bit of an exaggeration, but I'm quite serious when I say that most Bush supporters I met were religiously-motivated one-issue voters, either anti-abortion (especially in 2000) or anti-gay (especially in 2004).
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 11:27pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Yeah, but none of that has anything to do with Mormonism...
cough cough--looks at thread title--cough cough....
-----signature-----
When you enter a room full of armed men, shoot the first person who makes a move-
hostile or otherwise
He has started to think and is therefore dangerous...
-- Colonel "Paddy" Mayne, co-founder of the SAS
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
10/25/07 11:52pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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*hands Mr44 a Halls cough drop*
My point is that, thanks to the recent example of Bush, it shouldn't be news to anyone that a significant number of voters care about a candidate's religion or religious views. And so it could very well become a big issue whether or not Romney would tithe his earnings as President (wrong though that may be). This tithe, of course, being a part of Romney's responsibility to Mormonism.
Ta-da!
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
10/26/07 12:07am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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significant number of voters? Recent example?
In 1961, back before both of us were born, the same concerns were being raised about JFK and the fact that he was Catholic.
I'd say that the concern was baseless then as much as it is now for the reasons that were provided above.
-----signature-----
When you enter a room full of armed men, shoot the first person who makes a move-
hostile or otherwise
He has started to think and is therefore dangerous...
-- Colonel "Paddy" Mayne, co-founder of the SAS
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
10/26/07 1:41am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon, just to mess with your survey of people that voted Bush, I voted Bush in 2004, and I'm a pro-choice, anti-anti-gay atheist.
I'd think that the parallels to JFK would be really accurate. If I recall correctly, I thought one of the reasons for anti-mormonism was either the tendancy or perception of them to vote as a group, which does sound similar to the concerns (though not, I think, valid ones) over JFK that he would answer to the pope.
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Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
10/26/07 5:02am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Mr44 posted:
Yeah, but none of that has anything to do with Mormonism...
cough cough--looks at thread title--cough cough....
As Mr44 was trying to point out (before his coughing fit), what does all of this political talk ave to do with understanding the beliefs, doctrines, practices, and viewpoints of Mormonism? Yes, Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and yes, he is running for President, but discussing his candidacy really belongs in the political threads, not this one.
He's not running as a Mormon. He is someone running for President who happens to be a Mormon. If you want to understand what we believe, this is the thread for you. If you want to discuss someone who is running for President, then this is the thread for you.
Thank you,
Kimball Kinnison
-----signature-----
You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
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darthOB1
Registered:
Mar '00
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Date Posted:
10/26/07 7:03am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
- Date Edited:
10/26/07 7:05am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
darthOB1
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Kimball_Kinnison posted:
He's not running as a Mormon. He is someone running for President who happens to be a Mormon.
Just exactly how do you separate the two? Doesn't being a Mormon invole acting like a Mormon everyday? Its not something you can only put on on Sundays is it? At least it shouldn't be..........
Politics aside, every action he takes should be reflected by his beliefs, unless of course he is only Mormon by name, then its ok?
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"The fact that a theory is able to describe an observation does not mean the observation proves the theory"
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