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Topic:
Mormonism
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LostOnHoth
Registered:
Feb '00
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Date Posted:
2/1 2:03am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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I just watched an interesting documentary on Mormonism. I didn't realise what an effective disaster/relief organisation it is. Apparently the LDS Church had recovery teams on the road heading towards New Orleans before Katrina even struck and were some of the first people on the ground working to clear debris and distribute food/medical supplies.
I met a couple of missionaries a few years ago when they knocked on my door in 42 degree heat (celcius). I let them in and we talked for a couple hours. Nice guys, unfortunately I think I'm impervious to the concept of religious faith so their efforts were wasted but they were'nt overly pushy and they left me with a good impression of the church. Unlike some of the Jehovas Witness people that I practically have to threaten with violence to get them away from my front door.
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Vezner
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
2/3 5:40am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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So I read on foxnews a bit about President Hinckley's funeral service (unfortunately I was unable to attend or watch on television due to work obligations). Apparently both Mitt Romney & Harry Reid were there. I wonder if they sat next to each other. 
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McCain 2008  I support the troops that are fighting and dying for our Freedom! Christians have rights of expression too.  "The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing." --Edmund Burke
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Darth-Horax
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
2/27 4:43pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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LostOnHoth posted:
I just watched an interesting documentary on Mormonism. I didn't realise what an effective disaster/relief organisation it is. Apparently the LDS Church had recovery teams on the road heading towards New Orleans before Katrina even struck and were some of the first people on the ground working to clear debris and distribute food/medical supplies.
I met a couple of missionaries a few years ago when they knocked on my door in 42 degree heat (celcius). I let them in and we talked for a couple hours. Nice guys, unfortunately I think I'm impervious to the concept of religious faith so their efforts were wasted but they were'nt overly pushy and they left me with a good impression of the church. Unlike some of the Jehovas Witness people that I practically have to threaten with violence to get them away from my front door.
Was thsi special on PBS? I think I saw the same one...pretty fair documentary. It interviewed General Authorities as well as ex-Mormons.
Good watching.
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LostOnHoth
Registered:
Feb '00
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Date Posted:
2/27 6:39pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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I'm from Australia so it aired on one of our channels (ABC I think.
Yes it was a very fair documentary and lacked the usual hysteria and innuendo. I was impressed with the frankness of the LDS spokesman who made no apologies for the harshness of the church to those people who could not or would not conform to church doctrine, but was at the same time sincerely saddened by it. I like that honesty. Organisations such as Scientology and Society of Jehovas Witness could take a leaf from the LDS book in this regard.
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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire
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Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
2/27 7:30pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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LostOnHoth posted:
I'm from Australia so it aired on one of our channels (ABC I think.
Yes it was a very fair documentary and lacked the usual hysteria and innuendo. I was impressed with the frankness of the LDS spokesman who made no apologies for the harshness of the church to those people who could not or would not conform to church doctrine, but was at the same time sincerely saddened by it. I like that honesty. Organisations such as Scientology and Society of Jehovas Witness could take a leaf from the LDS book in this regard.
Why were you saddened by it?
The LDS Church is based on the principle of modern revelation from God. If God sets a standard for worthiness, what possible reason could His representatives have for lowering that standard, and still retain authority as God's representatives?
It's not an attempt to be harsh to them. It is simply stating the fact that they are not living according to God's revealed standards. As Nephi says in the Book of Mormon, "The wicked take the truth to be hard".
Kimball Kinnison
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You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
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LostOnHoth
Registered:
Feb '00
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Date Posted:
2/27 8:15pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
- Date Edited:
2/27 8:18pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
LostOnHoth
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I wasn't saddened by it the LDS spokesman seemed to be sincerely saddened for those people who had been excummunicated because they were homosexual or whatever. I didn't express myself very clearly in my post. He basically said that what you just said above and said words to the effect that the church could be harsh for those people who could not or would not meet the standards of the church.
I was impressed with the man's humanity which can be sorely lacking when it comes to expelling people from a religious institution.
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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire
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Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
2/27 8:40pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Sorry. Misread what you had posted.
That's what I get for running on only 3 hours of sleep.
Kimball Kinnison
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You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
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LordPullus
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
2/28 8:13am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Wow I didn't even know this thread existed. Yeah Hinkley was the first prophet I truly remember anything important from though Benson was the first one I can actually remember. Hinkley to me was the tool through which the church's growth spread so far so fast, and there are many world wide who are grateful for that fact. I pray that he finds rest now.
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If it doesn't kill you, It can only make you stronger
"The darkside is not a living I would wish upon any especially the one who've you have taken a hold off Dark one",- Jedi Master Rhaz Quinin
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Lord_NoONE
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
2/28 8:39am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Well, there is work going on over on the other side of the veil...so President Hinckley definitely won't be resting over there either.
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LordPullus
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
2/28 9:59am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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True I guess Putting your shoulder to the wheel is a song for the eternities.
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If it doesn't kill you, It can only make you stronger
"The darkside is not a living I would wish upon any especially the one who've you have taken a hold off Dark one",- Jedi Master Rhaz Quinin
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Nerf_Hoarder
Registered:
Mar '08
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Date Posted:
3/3 11:12am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Hello, just joined up w/ TF.N and what do I behold but a Mormonism thread. Cheers everyone!!
Anyone see the two LDS contestants (I'm pretty sure they are LDS) on American Idol? I flipped (not literally) to American Idol for the first time in years last week and the singer was David Archuleta from Murray, UT. He was pretty good. There is also this girl, Brook White, who I think is LDS too.
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darthOB1
Registered:
Mar '00
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Date Posted:
3/4 7:32am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Donnie and Marie are already famous silly!
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Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
8/6 6:35am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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This was asked in the Christianity thread:EMPEROR_WINDU posted:
Kimball_Kinnison posted:
AaylaSecurOWNED posted:
[quote=Kimball_Kinnison]I would say that yes, in some circumstances, we can be capable of actually denying Him while we are alive. For example, Adam and Eve walked with God in the Garden of Eden. If they had then completely turned their backs on Him in an unrepentant manner, after gaining such a personal knowledge of Him, would that not be a case of "actually denying" Him?
I think scriptural figures are exceptional, though. I meant to refer to we who do not, like the Hebrews or the prophets, speak with God directly or witness supernatural miracles constantly. We are undeniably more separated from God than Adam and Eve, Moses, and the other Apostles and Prophets, and although I know several people who have* been spoken to by God, but none describe the experience as anything similar to Adam and Eve's conversations with Him or Moses's encounter with the burning bush or anything. So my question was really geared towards those people who live in modern times and have relatively tenuous interaction with God and not the exceptional historical cases of people who had a more overt relationship with Him.
Speak for yourself. You need to remember that I belong to a church led by a living prophet, someone with the exact same authority that Adam, Moses, Ezekiel, or any of the other ancient prophets had. I don't accept the notion that the heavens are sealed, that miracles have ceased, nor that God speaks to us any less than He did in ancient times.
Have I ever seen an angel, or a burning bush? No. However, I have witnessed miracles performed by the power of God's priesthood (and even participated in performing some miracles). I have received personal revelation that was as clear as anything I have seen in the scriptures.
Such things are still available to God's children today. We need only look for them.
Kimball Kinnison
I'm assuming that you belong to the LDS, but correct me if I am mistaken. I certainly believe we can be witness to God's mercy and power through miracles, but what I do have a problem squaring away with Mormon's is the need for a prophet after the ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If one believes in the words of the Old Testament prophets about the coming of the Messiah and Jesus himself said he is the Son of God I just don't see the need for a living "prophet" other than Christ.
I also have questions regarding other Mormon beliefs:
1) Is there an actual hierarchy of beliefs? In other words, is more "truth" revealed as one climbs the ladder?
2) Did people before Joseph Smith go to heaven? If they were capable of being saved without the Mormon religion, then where is the necessity of the actual religion rooted?
3) Did Jesus lie when he said he would be with us until the end of the age? [/quote]As I said in the other thread, I'd be happy to answer your questions. Let's take them one by one.
EMPEROR_WINDU posted:
I'm assuming that you belong to the LDS, but correct me if I am mistaken. I certainly believe we can be witness to God's mercy and power through miracles, but what I do have a problem squaring away with Mormon's is the need for a prophet after the ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If one believes in the words of the Old Testament prophets about the coming of the Messiah and Jesus himself said he is the Son of God I just don't see the need for a living "prophet" other than Christ.
In order to answer this, we first have to really define what do we mean by a "prophet". Simply put, a prophet is a spokesman, someone with the authority to speak for another. You can see evidence of this in the story of Moses and Aaron, where Moses is told, "and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." (See Exodus 7:1.)
A prophet is therefore someone who is a spokesman for God. One of the key signals of a prophet is that they say "Thus saith the Lord" (or some variation). As part of this, they call people to repentance, teach the Gospel, and give warnings from God. In fact, the word "prophecy" doesn't mean "prediction about the future". It means simply "message from God" (or, more accurately, simply "message", with the message being from God when the prophet involved is God's spokesperson).
Within that context, it should be clear exactly why we need a prophet. God has said that He will do nothing without revealing it to His prophets (see Amos 3:7). God gave prophets in ancient times to guide His people, to help them apply the eternal principles of the Gospel to the challenges and trials of their day, and to sound a warning against the efforts of Satan.
As to why we need a prophet today, could not the Israelites have said the same thing? Why did they need a prophet after Moses? Or after Abraham? Just because Joshua came after Moses doesn't mean that he was greater then Moses. He simply was the prophet at a different time, and helped face different challenges.
EMPEROR_WINDU posted:
1) Is there an actual hierarchy of beliefs? In other words, is more "truth" revealed as one climbs the ladder?
The answer to this one is both yes and no.
Every last doctrine of the Gospel that has been revealed so far can be found within the scriptures. Even our temple ceremonies (which we don't discuss in any detail outside of the Temple) don't teach any doctrines beyond what is in the scriptures. Instead, they help personalize those doctrines to help us apply them better in our own lives. In that respect, there isn't a hierarchy of beliefs. Everything is available to everyone if they know where to look.
However, just as in all other fields of study, you need to learn the basics before you can understand the advanced teachings. We don't start children off with differential equations in kindergarten. They need to start with addition, subtraction, and slowly build through algebra, trigonometry, and calculus. Similarly, you don't start teaching someone to read by handing them War and Peace.
The Gospel is no different. If you don't understand a basic principle (like faith), then it will be far more difficult to understand a teaching that builds on top of that principle. Without that foundation, your understanding is weaker. That is the same principle taught by Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:2.
EMPEROR_WINDU posted:
2) Did people before Joseph Smith go to heaven? If they were capable of being saved without the Mormon religion, then where is the necessity of the actual religion rooted?
First of all, the "Mormon religion" is actually the same church, complete with the same teachings and the same priesthood authority, that Christ established during and after his mortal ministry. As such, there were many people "saved" before Joseph Smith came along, particularly in the 1st Century.
However, we believe that the priesthood authority, the authority to act in the name of God, was taken from the Earth because of transgression (a period known as the "Great Apostasy"). When the Apostles were killed, the authority to direct the Church was lost. That authority was restored to Joseph Smith in 1829 by John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John. That authority is necessary in order to perform the ordinances (what other churches call "sacraments") of the Gospel (such as baptism). Without receiving those ordinances, no one can be saved. People who lived and died during the time of the Great Apostasy did not have access to those ordinances.
However, that doesn't mean that they cannot be saved. One of the things that we do in our temples is perform work on behalf the dead. Each person can only receive those saving ordinances for themselves one time. In the temples, after you have received those ordinances, you are able to return and perform those same ordinances on behalf of those who have died. Those people are awaiting the resurrection in the Spirit World, and they then have the opportunity to either accept or reject those ordinances as if they had been offered them while they were living. That's the primary reason why the LDS Church is so big on genealogy and family history. We try to identify our ancestors so that we can then offer them the opportunity to accept those ordinaces through our temple work.
EMPEROR_WINDU posted:
3) Did Jesus lie when he said he would be with us until the end of the age?
Not at all. Why would you think that we believe that?
Kimball Kinnison
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You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
8/6 7:38pm
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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the singer was David Archuleta from Murray, UT
A few months ago I went out to dinner with my grandparents, and they were talking about it and demanded they showed me where he lived. I told my grandma that I didn't really care, but they drove by his house and they live about 5 houses down the street from him. (so to any stalkers out there, my fee is 30 bucks)
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DarthKomar
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
8/15 2:19am
Subject:
RE: Mormonism
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Kimball_Kinnison posted:
However, we believe that the priesthood authority, the authority to act in the name of God, was taken from the Earth because of transgression (a period known as the "Great Apostasy"). When the Apostles were killed, the authority to direct the Church was lost. That authority was restored to Joseph Smith in 1829 by John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John. That authority is necessary in order to perform the ordinances (what other churches call "sacraments") of the Gospel (such as baptism). Without receiving those ordinances, no one can be saved. People who lived and died during the time of the Great Apostasy did not have access to those ordinances.
In The Acts of The Apostles, they ordained more priests and deacons with the authority given to them by Jesus. If all that authority was lost in the "Great Apostasy" then Christianity (especially Catholicism) would have died out completely and we would have no record of it until 1829 when you say Joseph Smith was given authority.
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