| Author |
Topic:
Evolution or Creation
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Peez
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 2:40pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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R2D2-PENA:
We can post as much scientific proof that supports creation... Oooo! There's an idea! Please post some, for a change, and stop merely claiming that it exists, somewhere, you think...We call creationism a science, since it IS, because it does comply with their 4 or 5 points that must be met to qualify, but that is just according to these evolutionists. "4 or 5 points" like being based on observations? Like taking the facts and developing a theory from them, rather than starting with a theory and then trying to shoe-horn facts into it? Note that the whole issue of "evolution vs creationism" is here because certain Christian fundamentalists just couldn't accept the conclusions of science.Let them keep their faith on their scientific speculation, unproven "observation" (which i greatly doubt since the time frame needed to prove all that is way beyond observation), and just stick to your own beliefs. You can doubt all you want, just keep your religious dogma out of the science classroom. I will agree to avoid entering church and teaching science.  just one last point, your webster's dictionary defines science as this:
SCIENCE:
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding
2 a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study <the science of theology> b : something (as a sport or technique) that may be studied or learned like systematized knowledge <have it down to a science>
3 a : knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method b : such knowledge or such a system of knowledge concerned with the physical world and its phenomena : NATURAL SCIENCE
4 : a system or method reconciling practical ends with scientific laws <culinary science> Yup, and the scientific method is also defined:scientific method : principles and procedures for the systemic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses. So, in science we "pursue" knowledge by "collecting data" etc., not just reading it out of a book that we assume is true. Note the part about "testing hypotheses." Care to provide one, just one, example of an hypothesis from creationism that can be tested by "observation" or "experiment"?And if you can read you will notice how theology is mentioned in the definition, but your bias will keep it out of the definition. You think that creationism is theology? Ask a few theologians (with advanced degrees from reputable universities) about the "historical accuracy" of the Bible.Evolutionist classify science differently then the general criteria for such, so just in that start we don't agree. Scientists do define some terms differently than those terms may tend to be used by many others, but our definition is one of the standard ones right there in Webster's.It is now a matter of which of the two do you wish to believe, and i prefer to believe that i am not the descendant of a monkey or slime. So that is why i retire from this, it is useless. How appropriate: you end with a comment that illustrates once again that you do not understand evolution (no evolutionary biologist thinks that humans descended from monkeys), that you do not understand science (creationism might be right, but there is no way to test it so it isn't science) (of course, it is silly enough that I very much doubt that it is right), and you choose creationism because you want to and not because of any evidence. That says it all.
Peez
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R2D2-PENA
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 3:13pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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"Oooo! There's an idea! Please post some, for a change, and stop merely claiming that it exists, somewhere, you think"
I have posted information but you evolutionists decided to debunk it by your bias, calling those scientists liars, or hoaxes, read my earlier posts, but since i noticed your attitude towards my posts, i decided not to post any more.
And next time you decide to quote me, please be kind to include the whole quote, not just the part that you can use to your advantage, please.
I'M OUT!!
-----signature-----
Oh Yeah! from this book Evolution 1:1 "In the Beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded."
Homer Simpson: "You got any of those potato chips that give you diahrrea?
I need to do a little spring cleaning"
no matter what you say, Episode 2 ROCKS!!
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Double_Sting
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 5:00pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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R2D2-PENA
It seems like you are trying to convert us all to chrisitianity rather than providing us with reasons to believe in creationism.
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Fat_Fett
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 5:49pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
- Date Edited:
4/9/02 6:16pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Fat_Fett
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For your information, the Bible IS the religious book with the most fulfilled prophecies! I did NOT claim that Hinduism had NOT fulfilled any prophecies! Why do you feel an overwhelming need to twist my words around and use them against me when I say something you KNOW is true but is against what you foolishly want to follow?
Snowdog, if you claim that I know nothing about other world religions, perhaps you yourself should get the facts straight on Christianity BEFORE you start ranting on about Hinduism. One thing I KNOW about Hinduism is that it does not fulfill as man prophecies as the Bible. What, were you trying to CONVINCE me that Hinduism fulfills more prophecies than the Bible? LOL! If not, why would you list the books of your religion when addressing the question?
If Hinduism has so many more completed prophecies than the Bible has (as you make it sound like it does), please tell me what they are, and how many more there are in the Hindu holy books than in the Bible!
No matter how much all you Evolutionists try to sound like "scientists," with all of your INSTANTLY correct facts, you don't even follow the #1 rule of being a debating scientist.......you are supposed to be objectionable, not biased! Why do you address only some of the subjects we bring up? You leave others totally ignored becuase you don't have an answer for them! And....this...somehow ISN'T biased?
Why do no famous Evolutionists come into a debate with any Creationists? They are afraid that their bias will be exposed, and with a bias they can not be legit scientists.
I'm not taking your Evolution quotes and twisting them around and making a mockery of them! For some reason, you paraphrase and quote only parts of what we say in such a way that it makes you look better than you would if you actually used the genuine quote!
If you laugh at the Bible's prophecies, and want me to list the prophecies that came true.....I will list them.
The chances for Jesus Christ to fulfill all of the prophecies (or, if you wish, "events forseen in the future") that he did in the New Testament is the same chance that you would have of coating Texas with silver marbles, placing one red marble somewhere in the mess, and picking out that marble. Jesus DID exist, and non-Christian historical accounts say that He did fulfill prophecies that were foretold more than 600 years before He was born.
As to the question of why Moses allowed the slaughtering of women and children......If you are going to defend Hinduism, a religion which STILL encourages the killing of people of other religions....don't point your hypocritical finger at me. Hinduism, Islam, and scores of other religions still encourage the killings of other religious people (my dad should know, he has been a Pastor and a missionary for over 25 years!). Perhaps if you actually read both the New and Old Testaments you wouldn't make yourself sound so foolish. Jesus set up a new law, a CHRISTIAN law on the Earth - it was no longer Judaism's "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth," it was "turn the other cheek." Hence, CHRISTIANITY does not encourage the killing of other religous peoples.....you know, there IS a difference between Christianity and Judaism. It's just pretty depressing that you mock my religion and you didn't even know that.
Snowdog, how can the Biblical prophesies be "self fulfilling" if the books of the Bible were written by people of all social classes and nationalities, hundreds of years apart? Each Hindu holy book was not written over a span of over 1300 years! Your assertions definately do not show you as one who is knowledgable in other religions. Hypocrisy, once again. What a shock!
It was NOT on a Christian program that I overheard that the Bible is the book with the most fulfilled prophecies. It was on (can't remember the name) the show on PAX with the guy from Law and Order hosting it. It is hardly a Christian show.
One more BIG problem that none of you have addressed yet. No matter who's theory on evolution you are using (wow - there are different theories on evolution, just like there are different Christian denominations who can't agree on minor technicalities....somehow you only critique the denominations. Bias, no doubt), all Evolutionary theories (to my knowledge) refer to the Primordial Soup as the place from which the first living cells originated.
However, there is not ONE fact to support this theory....it is more or less a GUESS. How is it a hypothesis if there is no scientific knowledge to support it? A hypothesis is an EDUCATED guess....this is a shot in the dark.
To counter this argument, you would predictably and sadly complain about how the story of Creation is more or less a fairy tale, because according to your biased opinions, there is no evidence for it. Some will say that Genisis is one man's simple, unscientific interpretation of how he thinks the universe came to be. How is primordial soup "science"- isn't it just based on faith like Creationism? It IS based on blind faith. You know it, I know it. If there is no science behind it, why is it not considered "blind faith" as you would call believing in Creationism?
So, if there is no evidence (according to you) for Creation OR Primordial Soup.....um, exactly what makes primordial soup a legit base for the Evolutionary theory(ies)? Both have no evidence according to what you have said or admitted, yet primordial soup is scientifically acceptable and Creation is still a fairy tale?
Now, I might be crazy, but isn't that (once again) a BIASED OPINION? For all the wealth of (false) knowledge you tote around, you still can't bring yourselves to be objectionable like a person of science is supposed to be.
This same question can be said for the Big Bang "Theory." It's not a hypothesis if there are no hard facts to back it up! You have all said that yourselves! You say this all the time when you talk about Creationism! It is blind faith.....the same blind faith that you consider so unscientific!
Please clear this up......the massive, biased confusion that is Evolution continues to baffle me with its self-contradictions.
Then again, I "don't even know the general facts about your so-called 'science'." Aristotle would be rolling in his grave if he heard how you have totally contradicted "science" itself.
If Christians are all "close-minded" and "holier than though", there are two words that sum up what an Evolutionist is.
A biased hypocrite.
-----signature-----
"Your love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed your mind." AND HOW!
Hey hey, if you wanna flame, take it to the Senate Floor already...
You might also know me as A_Tossed_Dwarf at theonering.net
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Ender
Registered:
Aug '98
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 6:17pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
- Date Edited:
4/9/02 6:23pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ender
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Earth - it was no longer Judaism's "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth," it was "turn the other cheek." Hence, CHRISTIANITY does not encourage the killing of other religous peoples.....you know, there IS a difference between Christianity and Judaism. It's just pretty depressing that you mock my religion and you didn't even know that.
*Yawn* nothing new, the same philosophy existed in Hinduism and Buddhism way before Jesus came along. Hinduism and Buddhism do not encourage the killing of other religious people.
One more BIG problem that none of you have addressed yet. No matter who's theory on evolution you are using (wow - there are different theories on evolution, just like there are different Christian denominations who can't agree on minor technicalities....somehow you only critique the denominations. Bias, no doubt), all Evolutionary theories (to my knowledge) refer to the Primordial Soup as the place from which the first living cells originated.
Could you point out these different types of evolution? I'd be quite interested in this different denomination, LOL.
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Double_Sting
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 6:41pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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This same question can be said for the Big Bang "Theory."
Actually there is proof of this that has been discovered by observing space. I'll find the exact explanation of this (I don't remember the exact terminology) but I'm sure somebody here knows what I am taking about.
Or do you not believe in it because your "all-knowing" book didn't say so?
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no, i will not fix your computer
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Ender
Registered:
Aug '98
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 6:52pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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The microwave background radiation was hotter 2.5 billion yrs ago. This was recently found by observatories in Germany, India, and France.
Here's an article on it:
Fundamental Big Bang Prediction Is Finally Verified
Be warned, this is evilutionist science!
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Double_Sting
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 6:55pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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thanks Ender.
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Ender
Registered:
Aug '98
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 7:01pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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No problem.
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Saint_of_Killers
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 7:23pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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"Why do no famous Evolutionists come into a debate with any Creationists?"
Because it's really rather pointless. You don't see adults debating the existance of Santa with 6 year olds. Now that may sound harsh, but for alot of people a literal interpratation of the Genesis story is as far out there as the idea of some old man giving everyone presents if they're good.
"If you are going to defend Hinduism, a religion which STILL encourages the killing of people of other religions"
Eh? Now I'm sure there's Hindu fanatics just like there are of every religion, but I don't think it said anything in the Hindu scriptures about being happy to dash the babies of your enemies against rocks(Think that's not in the bible? Psalm 137 verse 9)
But this all totally off topic and has nothing to do with evolution, so why are you talking about it? Hell why am I talking about? 
-----signature-----
We enter into life naked and howling, covered with blood.
The fun doesn't have to end there.
Who to himself is law, no law does need, offends no law and is a king indeed
Abraham failed the test.
TAKE A BOW MISTER BUNNY!!!
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Fat_Fett
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 7:31pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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Once again, you add to my words.
I did not even SAY the word "Buddhist" in my entire report. I said many other religions. I have to admit that you all share one strongpoint. The ability to corrupt one's words into an entirely different meaning.
Hinduism does encourage killing. Where's the proof, you ask?
Well, there's a little bit of land called Kashmir that should be basic knowledge for anyone who has passed Freshmen level World History. Muslims and Hindus have killed over this land for 100's of years, and they obviously are not restrained by their religions.
If you knew even the slightest bit of information on Christianity, you WOULD know that there is more than one denomination. Catholicism, Pentecostalism, Charismatic, Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian, and Non-denominational are just a few of the hundreds of Christian denominations.
Different evolutionary theories abound. Some believe that evolution is linear, others believe it is not. Some believe that evolution continues in all animals today, others believe that some animals (crocodile, turtles) no longer evolve. Some evolutionists believe in the big bang, and others do not.
And you believe that evolution is right because your "all knowing" scientists say so?
And now we have Peez saying I shouldn't assume that a soul exists! Has 9/11 faded out of your minds so quickly?
The reason for this "echo" in space is not from the Big Bang theory. When God spoke and said "let there be light," He created by merely SPEAKING! This "echo" is the result of that sudden energy. Or do you have more than one fact to back you up? That radiation and "echo" do not point to either Evolution or Creation flat out. Any one can claim what they believe to be true. I'm staking my claim on God. Explain to me again how the Big Bang Theory better explains this.
I'm still awaiting your answer to how primordial soup is somehow a good, scientific hypothesis. What, you mean you don't know?
Seems like somebody is basing their beliefs in the truths of science on faith...... If you believe what Evolutionists say, you have faith in what they say. Didn't you say that faith and science can't co-exist?
The contradictions and conflicts in evolution science still amaze me.
Evolutionist - "To quote Darth Vader.....'There is no conflict.'" Tell me how there isn't a contradiction in the whole belief of primordial soup, please!
I have answered your questions according to the truth that I believe, and the contradictions of evolution.
I await your answers..... if you know, please reveal your knowledge.
*Yawn. Just because beliefs overlap doesn't prove originality. Polytheism was started LONG before Hinduism. Judaism and Christianity began Monotheism.....that's original.
-----signature-----
"Your love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed your mind." AND HOW!
Hey hey, if you wanna flame, take it to the Senate Floor already...
You might also know me as A_Tossed_Dwarf at theonering.net
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Saint_of_Killers
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 7:46pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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"Muslims and Hindus have killed over this land for 100's of years, and they obviously are not restrained by their religions."
Yeah and Christians have been killing eachother over Ireland for years too. You gonna tell me Christianity encourages killing?
"Some evolutionists believe in the big bang, and others do not."
The Big Bang ain't part of the theory of evolution. Evelution is biological, big bang is astronomical.
"And now we have Peez saying I shouldn't assume that a soul exists! Has 9/11 faded out of your minds so quickly?"
What does 9/11 have to do with whether we have souls or not?
-----signature-----
We enter into life naked and howling, covered with blood.
The fun doesn't have to end there.
Who to himself is law, no law does need, offends no law and is a king indeed
Abraham failed the test.
TAKE A BOW MISTER BUNNY!!!
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Ender
Registered:
Aug '98
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 7:51pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
- Date Edited:
4/9/02 8:36pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ender
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Well, there's a little bit of land called Kashmir that should be basic knowledge for anyone who has passed Freshmen level World History. Muslims and Hindus have killed over this land for 100's of years, and they obviously are not restrained by their religions.
Could you point out the Hindu scripture that says to kill people of other religions for me? Or should we judge Christian scripture by the Crusades and the various Inquisitions?
Different evolutionary theories abound. Some believe that evolution is linear, others believe it is not. Some believe that evolution continues in all animals today, others believe that some animals (crocodile, turtles) no longer evolve. Some evolutionists believe in the big bang, and others do not.
LOL, this just demonstrates your ignorance of evolution.
The reason for this "echo" in space is not from the Big Bang theory. When God spoke and said "let there be light," He created by merely SPEAKING! This "echo" is the result of that sudden energy. Or do you have more than one fact to back you up? That radiation and "echo" do not point to either Evolution or Creation flat out. Any one can claim what they believe to be true. I'm staking my claim on God. Explain to me again how the Big Bang Theory better explains this.
Wow, god must have a big mouth.
Evolutionist - "To quote Darth Vader.....'There is no conflict.'" Tell me how there isn't a contradiction in the whole belief of primordial soup, please!
Your ignorance of evolution is astounding. You have once again confused abiogenesis with evolution.
We're still waiting for the evidence for Young Earth creationism. Attacking evolution with old refuted arguments doesn't mean creationism is correct. Anytime you're ready to present this peer reviewed evidence go right ahead.
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cydonia
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 7:56pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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"Or should we judge Christian scripture by the Crusades and the various Inquisitions?"
They weren't real christians.
(thought i'd beat someone to the punch!  )
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when you're born a lover, you're born to suffer-
Like all soul sisters and soul brothers
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Double_Sting
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
4/9/02 8:08pm
Subject:
RE: Evolution or Creation
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Well, there's a little bit of land called Kashmir that should be basic knowledge for anyone who has passed Freshmen level World History. Muslims and Hindus have killed over this land for 100's of years, and they obviously are not restrained by their religions.
I'm from India and I'm willing to bet that you can't tell me the real reason for this conflict without looking it up on the internet.
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