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Topic:
Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 7:55am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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Why yes it is your honor. Let's try to remember where we are...we're on a Star Wars message board. Arguing on the internet. Do you really think that we're changing anything as we do this?
As I recall, you stated not too long ago that your opinion regarding salvation was actually changed through a discussion in the Senate.
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Wylding
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 7:56am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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My personal opinion.
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Jedi Master
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Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 8:03am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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Do you really think that we're changing anything as we do this?
I don't know about you, but I've not tried to change the world from the message boards. Instead, I have tried to foster understanding between people. That is why I come here and post. It helps me learn more about others' vies and express my own so that they, too, can learn more.
Kimball Kinnison
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Garli Pesan
Registered:
Apr '00
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 8:08am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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"The priesthood is not something you get "fired from." You can be removed from a parish, but only in the most extreme cases are priests laicized (removed from the office of the priesthood)."
Extreme circumstances like, oh I don't know, repeaditly molesting children?
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 8:12am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
- Date Edited:
4/24/02 8:14am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
KnightWriter
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A priest can simply be removed from parish life without being reassigned. In that event, they are essentially jobless.
I don't see the point of removing a priest from his vows and office of the priesthood if they recognize they have a problem, pay for what they have done, and attempt to get treatment. If they pay for what they've done, and get sufficient treatment, then they can be given a job that doesn't involve children at all.
Is that too much? I'm genuinely asking.
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No blasters!
Registered:
Feb '00
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 8:14am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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The point was not what they *should* be doing, but rather, a comment on what they've *been* doing.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 8:15am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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The point was not what they *should* be doing, but rather, a comment on what they've *been* doing.
Could you clarify?
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KaineDamo
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 8:17am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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According to Wylding's logic, if ya let a priest who may be a pedophile have sex with women, he will no longer have an interest in children.
Suuuuuuuuuuuurrrreeeeeee!!!
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No blasters!
Registered:
Feb '00
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 8:24am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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You responded earlier in the thread about how they're not "fired". (Which I know wasn't the technical term. On the other hand, I know there *are* means of removing clergy from not only their positions, but from the Church altogether. Yes?)
At any rate, yes I agree that removal, treatment, criminal penalties and a future without access to any children is enough to allow a person to have a job. I'm certainly not advocating that convicted child molesters never have another job again for the rest of their lives...
My earlier comment though (about firing priests) was made based upon the Church's past behaviour. Not what should be.
Does that clarify my statement?
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 8:26am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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I think so.
I think I'm a little slow at the moment, so forgive me if I misunderstand something.
 .
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ami-padme
Registered:
Sep '99
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 8:38am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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I know there must have been some cases were justice prevailed, and the priests were removed, and children's interests looked after.
I'd think so, especially the lower in the hierarchy you get (I'm sure individual priests, pastors, nuns, and certain bishops would want to protect their congregation). But if Law and his deputies can ignore the Shanleys and the Geoghans something tells me there aren't many cases that would really register on their radar screens for doing the right thing.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 8:41am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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Yes, I can agree with that. For bishops like Law, their interests were/are mostly in the wrong place, if not entirely. One can only hope that there aren't too many like him in that regard.
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Darth Rayder
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 10:39am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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Wylding:
The problem with your "snip-snip" idea, is that celibacy is meant to be a sacrifice. If castration removes sexual desire, it removes the sacrifice element of celibacy, and thus renders the idea moot. So snipping anyone who wants to become a priest is clearly not an option. Priests aren't celibate just for the heck of it.
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DarthLoreley
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 11:24am
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
- Date Edited:
4/24/02 11:26am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthLoreley
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Here we go again...
Cardinal Law should definitely be removed for his (non)handling of the Shanleys and Geoghans of his archdiocese. His actions (or lack thereof) bordered on criminal themselves, and exposed many more innocents to these predators. And the Vatican should come down very hard on these so-called leaders. Unfortunately, many officials in Rome believe this to be an American problem, caused by our "litigious and licentious" society.
Wylding, please show me some evidence, besides your own personal opinion, that celibacy causes a man to become a child molester. The Catholic priesthood has no higher rate of pedophilia and sex abuse than Protestant ministries. And you conveniently ignore the 98+% of compassionate, hard-working priests out there, who make huge sacrifices in their personal lives to answer the call of God.
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Shedao15
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
4/24/02 1:37pm
Subject:
RE: Is this Cardinal's Convention headed by the Pope actually going to solve anything?
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This is a very intresting debate between all of you. I would just like to add a little snippet of information for all of you guys benifit.
Once you are ordained a priest you cannot be removed from the priesthood unless you so choose. You can be defrocked, which basicly keeps you from active ministry. However, you cannot be removed from the priesthood. The reason being that the priesthood is a sacrament and sacraments are permanent unless the celebrant cancles out such partcipation. If a priest wishes to be "laicized" meaning he is removed from his vows and his priesthood, it can only happen if he so asks for it. If he does not he is a priest for ever in the line of Melchiezadek (as the saying goes). The same goes for a Bishop (with reference to Archbishop Bernard Cardinal Law). Not even the Pope has the authority to "fire" a Bishop or Archbishop (btw: Archbishop is a ceremonial title and is not any higher in power than a Bishop) The Holy Father can reassign them, but cannot "fire" them. So Archbishop Cardinal Law cannot be fired he must ask for resignation, if he does not the Boston Archdiocese still has to look up to Archbishop Cardinal Law.
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