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Author	Topic: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
tenorjedi Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 7/3/02 11:26pm Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	I'm not saying they're not making their share of mistakes. 1stAD's right in his first post. They had an opportunity to get in on the ground floor and they botched it up. CD's could definetly be lower, but like I said, if you wait a bit (same with DVD's) you can pick them up quite cheap. You only buy the new ones when it's something you really want, or if you've got the money to blow. -----signature----- "Over here we have the same stereo, except all the numbers go to 11" "Does that mean it's any louder?" "Well it's one number higher. It's certainly not 10 is it?"
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KaineDamo Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 7/4/02 6:42am Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	Most people that use P2P don't buy any more or any less CD's than they did before using P2P. Well, i know thats true for myself anyway. The majourity of music i have on my computer are either singles where i have no intention of listening to the entire album, or extremely rare songs that would take me forever to find in the stores. Music is something that sets us apart from other species. Its something that sets apart human beings culturaly. Its one of the most important things that make us human. Who cares if some greedy record producer only made 9 million this year instead of his usual 12 million? They want to put a rediculous price on something that was 100% free when it was first invented. In a 100 years or so its perfectly possible that it will once again be 100% free because sooner or later money will become no object and people will work and create music just out of the sheer joy of doing it. -----signature----- "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" - Stan Lee Big Bro 3: Not voting for Kaine is a vote against Bush. DON'T VOTE KAINE!! Equality in fanfiction, sign the petition - http://boards.theforce.net/user.asp?usr=779058
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tenorjedi Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 7/4/02 7:19am Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	Again trying to appeal to some idealistic crusade because you didn't want to pay for something that you didn't need. The problem here is usage, not P2P software. If people deleted the songs after having them for 5 days the # of downloads would be dramatically reduced because there'd be less files available for downloads, and secondly the question of breaking the law would become more skewed as you were only evaluating the product. The problem is that people many, not a few are using these files to eliminate purchasing of music altogether. Wether it's portable MP3 players or using CD burners. And who care if companies lose 30% of their income? You should, I do and most other people do as well. See it does affect the economy. Many people have IRA's, or straight out company stock because they don't trust Social Security to be there when they turn 65. IRA's invest in company stock as well. When IRA's go down instead of up because the company lost money to illegal activities those looking to retire soon (IE baby boomers), panic and start saving money on the side. That money saved hits all aspects of the economy, and then you have an economic downspin which affects all of us. Granted P2P software isn't the only adverse thing effecting the economy but it is one of many things. Also artsists have always been paid for their medium. Some even got rich, way back when. -----signature----- "Over here we have the same stereo, except all the numbers go to 11" "Does that mean it's any louder?" "Well it's one number higher. It's certainly not 10 is it?"
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Diesel_Dave Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/4/02 10:00am Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	tenorjedi Alot of good arguments. I aplaude your understanding and typing ability I especially like this one. People put time, effort, sacrificed their social lives in some instances, and many times put their very soul into those things. It's their work, and it's theirs to do with as they please. The fact that it's not tangible doesn't lessen their rights to it. Do you think it's okay for your boss or customers to only pay you half of the time? This is quite true. I myself "sample the music" via one or two songs and use the song name to find the album I want to buy. Assuming the person actualy got the name right. That and most of the MP3s out there are of very poor quality by my standards. Just my 2 cents worth. I am still very upset with Mr. Lares of Metallica fame for claiming that file swappers are stealing food from his family. Very upset indeed -----signature----- The right to express our thoughts means something only if we are able to have thoughts of our own - Eric Fromme
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Darth Fierce Registered: Feb '00	Date Posted: 7/4/02 8:45pm Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	"They want to put a rediculous price on something that was 100% free when it was first invented. " Who's "they"? Don't forget, the artists who make the music you like are perfectly capable of showing up at your home and playing for free. But do they? -----signature----- My name is Gladiator
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KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 7/4/02 9:46pm Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	But do they? Pretty much. -----signature----- Omar: "Can you fix this, Joe?" clock bangs on table Prop Joe: "What's the problem?" Omar: "Run out of time."
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tenorjedi Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 7/5/02 12:42am Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	I am still very upset with Mr. Lares of Metallica fame for claiming that file swappers are stealing food from his family. Very upset indeed Well he was overly dramatic, and a bit over the top. Obviously that statement about food hurt him more than it helped his cause. I guess he didn't like the the phrase "stealing the overly priced vehicle out of my garage". -----signature----- "Over here we have the same stereo, except all the numbers go to 11" "Does that mean it's any louder?" "Well it's one number higher. It's certainly not 10 is it?"
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GrandAdmiralPelleaon Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 7/5/02 12:59am Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	As soon as they start bringing out music I like I'll buy it. (hell I bought 3 new CDs yesterday.) It's not my fault that Spastic Ink refuses to re-issue their CD until the new one makes it to the market. Or that Bob Dylan didn't issue all his life concerts as real CDs. I use mp3's to inform me about new bands, last time I bought a CD purly on recommendation I got a Papa Roach CD , it is a HORRIBLE CD. I've never listend to it completly, now I always listen to a few tracks of the groups before I buy it. I still use almost all the money I can on CDs. I buy 2 CDs a week on average. Besides, 90% of the people that download music download from artists like Linkin Park, Nas, Nelly, Limp Bizkit etc. NEWS FLASH THEY ALREADY HAVE ALL THE MONEY THEY NEED. The only artists who "could" be damaged by this are the lesser known ones , but oh wait, they LIKE having their songs shared because that way they get free PUBLICITY. (hell I'd love it if people would go to the trouble of uploading songs of my band from to the internet and recommend them to people. That would be sweet.) -----signature----- Vita vinum est. Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude.
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DarthHomer Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 7/5/02 10:13am Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	CDs just aren't good value these days - that's why the record companies are suffering from filesharing. I could download whole movies if I wanted to, but I don't because I think DVDs are good value and the quality is much better. You can't make that claim about most albums. -----signature----- Saga from best to worst: 1. ESB 2. ANH 3. ROTS 4. AOTC 5. ROTJ 6. TPM Check out http://imaginarycinema.com - my new website about fantasy, horror and sci-fi movies
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KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 7/5/02 10:14am Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	Mostly gone are the days of albums like Achtung Baby, which is good music from the first track through the last track, without any padding at all. Now it's a few good songs with a lot of padding more often than not. -----signature----- Omar: "Can you fix this, Joe?" clock bangs on table Prop Joe: "What's the problem?" Omar: "Run out of time."
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Luscious Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/5/02 12:06pm Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	The record companies are full of it. We're just coming out of a recession. Some say we're still in it. Almost every company has seen sales decline this year and many by much more than 5%. Don't forget that the record companies had their best year ever during Napster's hayday. I download music to try and find new artists. I love techno but that type of music doesn't get much play on Top 40 stations (which is pretty much all that I can get where I live, that and country and oldies which are aren't really my thing). If I hear a song I like I find it on Morpheus or Kazaa and see if there are other songs I like by the same artist. If so and if there are 4 - 5 good songs on the same CD I will usually buy it. I've got at least 20 CD's that I've purchased in the last year or two that I wouldn't have bought if it had not been or file swapping. The record companies missed the boat and it's too late now. There is nothing they can do to stop file swapping. They can shut down Morpheus and Kazaa or any other company for that matter and three more just like them will pop up. Even if they succeed in shutting them all down, there is nothing they can do about peer to peer sharing apps like Gnotella. They aren't server based, there is no company behind them and they are open source. If record companies decide to go after individual traders than I will never buy another CD in the stores again and I'll encourage my friends to do the same. I'm sure others will as well. If they do it then it's going to end up hurting them more than it will help.
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Darth_SnowDog Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 7/5/02 12:23pm Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both? - Date Edited: 7/5/02 12:24pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth_SnowDog
	I say eliminate the middleman... Screw Warner Bros. and screw Napster. I'll make the music... you buy it. Deal? It'll cost you next to nothing, and I'll still get a bigger cut than what the record companies would give me for the work I did. Then, everybody will be happy... except perhaps for greedy middlemen who haven't the slightest understanding or respect of what it takes to actually produce something of value as opposed to buying, repackaging and redistributing something someone else created. -----signature----- I am boycotting theforce.net because of their homophobic, bigoted policy concerning fanfic romance. Others who believe this is bigotry should boycott all TFN, Lucasfilm and IGN products.
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GrandAdmiralPelleaon Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 7/5/02 1:38pm Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	Mostly gone are the days of albums like Achtung Baby, which is good music from the first track through the last track, without any padding at all. Now it's a few good songs with a lot of padding more often than not. lol, please, just because it isn't on MTV doesn't mean it isn't out there. Please, try a little better before making comments like that. But if you want, Dream Theater's last album, Symphony X's last album, Blackalicious last album, Jurassic 5's last album etc were all albums with good tracks from the first to the last moment. MTV doesn't play the good music but it's out there. -----signature----- Vita vinum est. Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude.
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KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 7/5/02 1:41pm Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	I know that. But how many are those are as high-profile as U2? I'm referring to the days when it was most bands/artists that released solid albums all around, instead of a relative few. -----signature----- Omar: "Can you fix this, Joe?" clock bangs on table Prop Joe: "What's the problem?" Omar: "Run out of time."
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Jedi_Xen Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 7/5/02 3:27pm Subject: RE: Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?
	Wow TenorJedi after all this I no longer no where the music industry ends and you begin, come on out and meet Mr Sunshine. (Im not too serious about that, but I never seen anyone fight so hard for the music industries) Now I dont d/l whole CD's, that defeats the purpose of me not liking but a couple songs on the CD. And if I remember correctly I think the US Supreme Court already said that peer to peer file swapping is perfectly legal, so the Music Industry will have to prove how they got the song on their computer to begin with, maybe they recorded it there themselves, or perhaps their buddy sent it to them, I used to swap files with my friend on ICQ. Fortunatley for us "Pirates" we have a valuable ally in the "Hackers" who would be more than happy to find their way through any and everything. On a personal note, I d/l rare songs with the occaisonal hit song. Do you know how hard it would be to find the Mummer Dance on CD? Or the Princess Mononoke soundtrack? And I love Classical Music, and no industry can sue me over Beethoven, his music is gold for the ages, and his copyright expired a long time ago. -----signature----- "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.-Theodore Roosevelt
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