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Topic:
Communism: Can it work or is it a pipe dream?
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Garli Pesan
Registered:
Apr '00
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 11:51am
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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I think commies are stupid for being idealists. Since we've all seen the results of communism and we all know, it doesn't rid the world of poverty, we know it doesn't work. (Except on extremely small scales, such as kibbutzes.)
Since I have a distaste for all people who can't face up to reality, it's a natural progression to dislike communists.
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Face Loran
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 12:41pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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I don't hate communists. I'm not a fan of communism, but I have no ill will towards the people who believe in it.
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EnforcerSG
Registered:
Sep '01
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 12:59pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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What I like about capatalism is that it lets a person who works hard should suceed. With communism, someone said it above, how two people of extream oppisists in terms of skills/intelegence..ect will get the exact same life.
In the modern versions of Communism, the fact that one cannot suceed will also in a way hurt society. I mean, there is little motavation to do well or develop new stuff, especally if it is not your place to develope new stuff.
Communism is good in theory, but in practis it wont work. Why? A great line form George Orwell, "Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others."
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 1:01pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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Human nature will keep communism from ever truly working. That's a fact set in stone.
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Coolguy4522
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 1:24pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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First of all, we don't hate communists, we hate communism, but we don't really hate it so much as totally disagree with it.
However, I would say that in THEORY, it works out nicely, but there is simply NO way for man to impliment it. Capitalism may give a few a large percentage of the wealth to a relative few, but it also gives greater wealth to everyone. In Russia, the rich have everything, while the poor have nothing. In America, the rich have alot, but the poor are pretty well off, and we have a large middle class.
For me, the ideal state would be one in which God would rule us, and we would willingly follow and all be one big happy family. We would have no excess or poor and everything would be great, but it isn't going to happen with the way man is today.
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Vaderbait
Registered:
Sep '01
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 1:31pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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It's not "Americans vs. Communists" it's Capitalists vs. Communists.
In case you're completely ignorant to history, communism promises a Utopia that can't exist. They say people are equal, yet hold the peasants where they are, and the leaders drink the finest beverages, treat themselves to all these nice things.
In essence, Capitalism and Communism is the same thing, just that in Capitalism, everyone can enjoy the wealth, in Communism, only who the leader wants to.
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Obi Anne
Title: FanForce RSA
Europe
Registered:
Nov '98
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 1:31pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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Hmm, I don't think that the workers in the 19th century would say that capitalism was the best way.
Untamed capitalism is just as bad a communism, but please remember that no state in the world has never been truly communist, the USSR and it's allies were Marxist-Leninist.
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Darth_Omega
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 1:33pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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I was just pointing out why I hate communism. I know a lot more about communism than you think, so get off it.
WTF!
I never attacked you!
What gave you that idea?!
I was just saying my opinion! 
from the sound of things omega is a socialist.
Is there something wrong with that?
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KaineDamo
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 1:50pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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To him Omega, yes there is. Why do you think he said to me in his first reply to this topic "you would like communism Kaine, wouldn't you." He dislikes anyone with a different political view from his own. Hes used "commie" as an insult to me on a different topic aswell.
Anyway, the subject of communism seems to be almost taboo to alot of Americans. Some people tend to dismiss it as "evil", or "wrong", without even really knowing the basics of what its all about, but just knowing what it can be used for if greedy politicians use it.
To answer someones question from before, why do i like the idea of two people earning the same amount of money? Well, im sure that the PersonA example you used works really hard, and really long hours. PersonB has already done most of the work he needs to do. Why can't the both of them just live with what they need, and a little bit more? Do you want PersonA to live on 1 meal a day and a small house while PersonB has 7 meals a day and a really large mansion? Why can't they both have 3 meals a day, and live in comfortable houses? See, if all the wealth in the world was spread around, everyone would live not richly, but comfortably. But it wouldn't work in todays society.
PS: I don't hate americans, i just strongly disagree with some of the politics. And i hate George Bush.
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Vaderbait
Registered:
Sep '01
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 1:52pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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Anyways, if you can't understand American politics (and you don't), don't say you "hate it". I couldn't start to attack British governmental workers because I don't know WHY they do these things.
Anyways, hating communism isn't the same as hating "all other opinions". To me, people who are communists are ignorant. It's the only goverment idea out there that just doesn't work.
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imzadi
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 1:53pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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There has never been a successful communist state. Even countries like China have never achieved communism. Therefore I don't see any reason for people to hate something that doesn't exist.
Communism is both an economic policy and a form of government. True Communism is in fact the total absence of government, where people vote directly on issues (total democracy, not democratic representation). Countries that claim or have claimed to be communist are a mixture between communism and totalitarianism, and I think that is what America (or the West) dislike, because dictatorships are rarely good.
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AJA
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 1:54pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
- Date Edited:
7/7/02 2:05pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
AJA
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The most simple answer is that like Naziism, Communism is an ideology of hate. Instead of race, Communists preach hatred and murder based on personal property and income. The common lie of those who still cling to the idea of Communism, like neo-Nazis who deny the Holocaust, is that the Communist regimes that have been implemented in the world do not accurately reflect the ideology.
Marx's entire thesis was that the oppressed lower classes would rise up, murder the bourgoisie, and institute a dictatorship of the proletariat. In practice, it has been made abundantly clear that the only way for a Communist regime to function is to revoke freedom. There can be only one Party, and all who dissent from the party must be dealt with. There is no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, and no freedom of assembly, but those are just the tip of the iceberg. Time and again, in every implementation, Communist governments have to kill people to keep them from leaving, and have engaged in mass genocide in order to suppress dissent.
Furthermore, the economic promises that are at the heart of the system have proven to be false. People still live in poverty, and they still starve, sometimes because of shortages, and sometimes because the Party feels the need to eradicate a certain group from the population by withholding their food.
It revokes all concepts of personal liberty and political freedom, and in return it provides poverty. None of the countries who have lived under Communism have any sympathy for it, and none of the less-developed countries of the world want it, despite the efforts of modern-day Marxists to push it on them.
The only people who still cling to it are rich, priveleged, sheltered, white, Western intellectuals who harbor guilt complexes over their position by birth and see it as a "humane" way to impose order on the unruly "little people" who keep interfering with their closed-off little world of ease and self-deification.
True Communism is in fact the total absence of government...
False. "True Communism" is a set of ideas first espoused by Karl Marx, and later expanded upon by others, which prescribe a revolution on the part of "workers", leading to the installation of a complex beurocracy which exhibits total control over all aspects of the economy. The mantra is "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his need". This is why it essentially saps the will to work and live from every individual living under it. Anyone who goes around spreading the notion that it means something else is in the business of deliberately misleading others.
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andakin
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 2:04pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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Marxist Communism, in theory, should better be called "Utopianism." There are so many faults, however, that Communism has never been achieved. Why? Because it's IMPOSSIBLE.
The so-called communist nations become totalitarian because a small class is very power-hungry.
Communism is an extremely suppressive form of government, requiring that all individuals work for the "good" of the "nation," while the nation starves them.
And if a marxist communist revolution were to take place in a capitalist nation, it's sovereignty would be destroyed, and it's freedoms would be lost. That's why we hate them.
Until Humanity has reached its very limits of wealth, technology, and living conditions; when society can progress no more, THEN perhaps a form of communism would no longer be so horrid.
But I wouldn't bet on that happening for a VERY long time.
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SCOTSSITHLORD
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 2:07pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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To use the crimes of Stalin, or the post WW2 carve up of europe, as an excuse for US antipathy toward communism is incorrect. The US government has always had a tradition of anti-labour, red-baiting, pre-dating the Bolshevik revolution.
Anarchists were framed and executed for murders they clearly hadn't committed, prominent socialists such as Big Bill Haywood, Eugene Debs, and James Cannon were persecuted using anti-sedition legislation.
Alexander Berkman and Emma Goldman were expelled from the country for their campaigning on behalf of justice for the framed anarchists.
The US is a plutocracy, and there is no real attempt on the part of the government to be even handed in any industrial disputes. Labelling opponents of the status quo as reds, or commies, and persecuting them to the fullest extent of the law is a much more effective way of tackling them, than bothering to argue against them. It's partly this history of persecution, from Teddy Roosevelt onward, which explains the failure of any attempts to establish a workers party in the US.
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Lord Bane
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
7/7/02 2:13pm
Subject:
RE: Why Do Americans Hate Communists?
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1. Watch your tone. KaineDamo, this goes out mainly to you.
2. Do not bash a whole nation's worth of people because of the political ideas of a few.
3. Do not label someone something simply because they have a dissenting opinion (ie, Kaine doesn't have to be a communist to have feelings on this issue).
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