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Author	Topic: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
KaineDamo Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 8/16/02 5:25pm Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	I agree completely with Admiral Thrawn. If the victims of IRA attacks wish to sue, and the people they sue are proven to support and/or fund the IRA, then the victims should definitely win the case. Any other result is, as Thrawn said, a double standard. -----signature----- "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" - Stan Lee Big Bro 3: Not voting for Kaine is a vote against Bush. DON'T VOTE KAINE!! Equality in fanfiction, sign the petition - http://boards.theforce.net/user.asp?usr=779058
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Ramius Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 8/16/02 6:27pm Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	No one is saying they can't sue. As Rebecca said, you can sue anyone. If the evidence you say is there and some organizations are at fault, then you shouldn't be worried about losing. You seem to be getting upset at the U.S. for something they haven't done yet, which is denying to hear the case. I have yet to see any real evidence that there are charities in the U.S. that give money to the IRA specifically for weapons. One of the links Sir_Oninksalot gave was about Bloody Firday and the violence in Northern Ireland, which isn't proof that Irish Americans support the IRA. In the other link, I only see one charity could be considered funding terrorists: Ulster Unionist MP Jeffrey Donaldson wants to see the strong measures extended to Noraid, which raises money for the republican party Sinn Fein, which itself has links with the Provisional IRA. "Without their funding, the IRA would not have nearly the same potential for violence that it currently has," he says. But as the article goes on, it states that Noraid says the money is for humanitarian aid: Noraid has openly expressed support for the IRA but says it gives money for humanitarian aid, and denies its donations are used for the purchase of arms. So unless there is any real evidence, it comes down to your word, saying they do give the money for weapons, and their word, saying the money is for humanitarian aid. The article also says that Sinn Fein has, of course, come in from the cold in recent years. It was de-designated as a foreign terrorist organisation by the US State Department in 1994 after the start of peace efforts in Northern Ireland - a move which allowed its leader, Gerry Adams, to travel to the US. which means that since Sinn Fein isn't seen as a terrorist group, the U.S. would have no reason to crack down on Noraid for giving them money. One link with a few paragraphs talking about America's connection with IRA is hardley proof that all Irish Americans support the IRA. -----signature----- And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, We shall flow a river forth to thee, And teeming with souls shall it ever be.
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Maveric Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 8/16/02 7:08pm Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	Let me expound upon my friend Rebecca191's statement, which read: Ummm.... anyone is allowed to sue. The proper question would be more along the lines of, "Should they win?" Where would one sue? In the US, we have the Custom's Court for foreigners trying to sue the US. Would one try the case in the ICC? The US is not a member of that body, so any judgement would be non-binding. The Hague? Once again, any judgement placed against the US would have no effect on the US. What would the World Court do to enforce their ruling? What agency enforces those decisions? If this were to proceed to trial, I think that it would be laughed out of court. Any lawyer worth his degree would argue for the defendants that all they did was provide money to an Irish organization, once they had done that, their control over how that money was spent, was out of their hands. -----signature----- Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man. -Sir Francis Bacon
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lavjoricso Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 8/17/02 2:42am Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans? - Date Edited: 8/17/02 2:44am (1 edits total) Edited By: lavjoricso
	The victims of the IRA should be able to sue the American people that have funded and supported the IRA for over 30 years. I also think that the American Government should stop the group 'Noraid' from funding and supporting the IRA,but i expect them to do nothing and continue to turn a blind eye,because the terrorism in Ireland and the U.K doesn't directly effect them !!! -----signature----- Bringer of first Episode III Obi-Wan pic http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/tfn.cgi?storyID=21602
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Darth_Asabrush Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 8/17/02 4:59am Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	This is a very complex issue and one that no one here has the capability of fully undertstanding unless they have had first hand experience of the issue. However, I will give my very humble opinion on the matter. The victims of the troubles come from both sides of the troubles. Both Catholic/Republicans and Protenstant/Loyalists have suffered. Most of the victims have been innocent people. Even young soldiers who have no choice but to do the "Tour" are innocent but obvious targets. The victims of the IRA/Real IRA/Sin Fien should have the right to sue Noraid and similiar organisations. Those who contributed to Noraid knew deep down where that money was going and because of some ancestoral link feel they should help with the war against the occupiers (ie: The British). This is nonsense and just adds to the troubles. Saying that, the Republicans should also have the right to sue supporting organisations of the Loyalist terrorists in the British courts. It is worth noting that the planners of the Omagh bomb are having civil action taken against them and are being sued by the vistims as the criminal case against them has failed. These people live frugal lives but in fact have large sums of money and assets hidden away. One thing to remember: The leaders of the terrorists groups are gangters. They do not want peace and want the "war" to continue becasue it makes them feel powerful and makes them money! -----signature----- Scepticism is the beginning of Faith
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DarthBreezy Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 9/11/02 10:07am Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans? - Date Edited: 9/11/02 10:10am (1 edits total) Edited By: DarthBreezy
	I'm just poking around and I found a point that bites close to my heart. Yes they SHOULD be allowed to sue BUT the problem is a) finding out exactly WHO to sue... watch the responibilty for shifting funds get buried faster than you can say "Enron". b) Collecting the funds... just wouldn't happen. I remeber living in Britain during the 80's, two things you were gaurenteed to see on the nightly news... Princess Di and the IRA... If England stays there, massive bloodshed... If England pulls out... Massive bloodshed... a vicious bloody circle, one death calls for revenge on the next.... A loose loose situation that "Irish Americans" have no buisness in. (the closest they've ever been to Ireland in 3 generations is that nasty green shake that Mc'D's serves every March.) DB -----signature----- http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/29640754/p1/ Pem's Diary http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28747916/p1/ Sailing little Boats - with GoldenJedi Anywhere is possible.
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Darth_Omega Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 9/11/02 10:57am Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	I am sick of people blaming the US for others problems. We need to return to isolationism and see how long it takes for Europe to erupt in a war again and come begging us for help putting out the problems that they cannot. Well last time I checked not all off Europe entered the war. If I can remember clearly Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Iceland etc. did not beg for the US to join the war... And of course US and UK begged some European countries, with no or little succes, to enter the war...
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Maveric Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 9/11/02 12:08pm Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	Well last time I checked not all off Europe entered the war. If I can remember clearly Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Iceland etc. did not beg for the US to join the war... I think you mean Ireland and if you did not, I did not know Iceland was considered part of Europe. And no, those countries decided to remain neutral. It is always better to have someone else fight your battle in your backyard than it is to fight it yourself. And of course US and UK begged some European countries, with no or little succes, to enter the war... Sure, it was their duty to fight a war. Did they actually THINK that Hitler would let them survive as independent nations? No, you go after the big boys first and then when they are beaten, gobble up the little guys. -----signature----- Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man. -Sir Francis Bacon
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Darth_Omega Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 9/11/02 1:01pm Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	Sure, it was their duty to fight a war. Did they actually THINK that Hitler would let them survive as independent nations? No, you go after the big boys first and then when they are beaten, gobble up the little guys. hmmm what about Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg & Denmark those are little guys. Hitler gobble them up before France... I think you mean Ireland and if you did not Ireland is a part of the etc. I did not know Iceland was considered part of Europe. yeah it is, you always learn something new on these boards. THINK that Hitler would let them survive as independent nations? No you read that in Mein Kampf? If not how would you know that Hitler will not invade Iceland and all the other neutral countries. it was their duty to fight a war Those countries are also too weak to fight Germany off and there are different ways to fight a war. e.g Supplying your allies with recources, allow the Allies to build a base on their territory etc.
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tenorjedi Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 9/11/02 1:26pm Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	I think that if the victims of the IRA can prove that a charity illegaly gave funds to terrorists, go ahead and sue. The charity would be punished or disbanded. To sue America or individual americans is unwarranted, but to stop such activities from a "charity" seems rational enough to me. Of course if NORAID is taken out then some new organization will most likely pop up though. -----signature----- "Over here we have the same stereo, except all the numbers go to 11" "Does that mean it's any louder?" "Well it's one number higher. It's certainly not 10 is it?"
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KaineDamo Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 9/11/02 1:32pm Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	Ireland had and still has a crappy army anyway. It would have been a very very small contribution to the war effort. Anyway, alot of irishmen still joined the British Army, and fought in the war. Including my Grandfather. -----signature----- "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" - Stan Lee Big Bro 3: Not voting for Kaine is a vote against Bush. DON'T VOTE KAINE!! Equality in fanfiction, sign the petition - http://boards.theforce.net/user.asp?usr=779058
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Maveric Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 9/11/02 3:43pm Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	hmmm what about Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg & Denmark those are little guys. Hitler gobble them up before France... They were also closer than Spain. you read that in Mein Kampf? If not how would you know that Hitler will not invade Iceland and all the other neutral countries. How would I know that he did not intend to invade those other countries? I don't know. Do you know he did not intend to invade the neutral countries? If so, please list the source. To me, it seems implausible that a meglomanic such as he would be stopped when their was still land he could take. Those countries are also too weak to fight Germany off and there are different ways to fight a war. Yes there are, guerrilla fighting is one example. e.g Supplying your allies with recources, allow the Allies to build a base on their territory etc. What do you think would happen to their "neutral" status if they did that? -----signature----- Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man. -Sir Francis Bacon
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Darth_Omega Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 9/11/02 11:23pm Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	guerrilla fighting is one example. Well IMO guerrilla fighting is only succesfull in jungle type environment. Spanish already failed the guerrilla type war far during the civil war... What do you think would happen to their "neutral" status if they did that? Strange enough they were still considered neutral...
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Maveric Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 9/12/02 5:46am Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	Well IMO guerrilla fighting is only succesfull in jungle type environment. Worked wonders during the American revolution. -----signature----- Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man. -Sir Francis Bacon
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Darth_Omega Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 9/12/02 6:59am Subject: RE: Should victims of IRA terriosm be able to sue Americans?
	Well during the revolution they didn't had any tanks and airplanes... so... I never knew that the American Revolution was considerd guerilla warfare...
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