| Author |
Topic:
Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
Oscar_the_Gungan
Registered:
Jan '01
|
Date Posted:
2/10/03 10:26am
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
|
I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I can't figure out why it always has to be Tolkien's stuff that SW is getting compared. It seems to me there are other works which has had more influence on SW than LOTR and would serve as a more fair comparison. Asimov's Foundation series and Herbert's Dune books probably had as much of an influence. They both deal with a galactic sized civilization. I guess it bugs me that people seem to be stuck on LOTR when to really have a fair discussion about such issues such as hints of a larger history when they fail to look at other works.
-----signature-----
I'm open for business, business of giving you the business," Meatwad
Harold:"The universe tends to unfold as it should."
Star Wars is forever, the Force will be with you .... always!
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Darth Jamus
Registered:
Jun '00
|
Date Posted:
2/10/03 3:00pm
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
|
Tolkien DID spend a significant amount of his life on his Middle Earth, far more than George Lucas on his universe. I am not bashing Tolkien, but simply pointing out the foolishness of comparing the two works! One work has had a significantly larger amount of work done on it than the other, simple as that!
-----signature-----
"This is where Chancellor Valorum's strength.....will disappear" said the magician to the Queen.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Aiwendil
Registered:
Jun '02
|
Date Posted:
2/10/03 5:13pm
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
Actually, aside from 'Akallabeth' & 'Of The Third Age & The Rings Of Power', there's a 6400 year gap between The Silmarillion & TLOR. The only finished published works on this period is the Appendices of TLOR.
Well, I think that the Akallabeth and 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age' cover the intervening time fairly well. But you're right - the 'Silmarillion' proper only extends to the end of the First Age. When I say 'Silmarillion' I tend to use it in a broader sense, encompassing all of the published work as well as Unfinished Tales and the History of Middle-earth.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ternian
Registered:
May '00
|
Date Posted:
2/10/03 11:22pm
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I can't figure out why it always has to be Tolkien's stuff that SW is getting compared.
Did you even read the original post before replying? There is NO comparison between the two made by me.
This thread is not about which is better. It is asking if the PT lacks the history of the OT.
-----signature-----
"Their people are suffering, Master Jedi! I must return."
- Lady Amidala - RRM, Episode III
---------------------------------------------------------------
This weeks X-Site! is...
http://www.jedicenter.com.br/
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Emperor_Billy_Bob
Registered:
Aug '00
|
Date Posted:
2/11/03 12:48am
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
I actually don't mind the lack of history behind the PT. I get the sense that the SW Universe since the Sith War has been pretty boring.
The time in the PT has to be well rationed anyway, there is no time to exposition about stuff that happened long ago and has little effect on the storyline.
-----signature-----
"I'd hit it." - Lord Vivec in regards to Adolf Hitler
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
|
Date Posted:
2/11/03 3:18am
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
When you watch the saga as a whole, you won´t have to worry about this, because when you get to ANH, the history they talk about is something you just experienced.
So the historical depth to the saga will lie in the hints we get in TPM, mostly.
BTW; I think it is made pretty clear why the Sith want revenge:
- The Sith have been extinct for a millennium!
- At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge!
So the Jedi think that the Sith are extinct and the Sith want to reveal that they are not and exact revenge upon the Jedi. Could it be that the Sith were supposedly exterminated by the Jedi? [face_shocked]
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ternian
Registered:
May '00
|
Date Posted:
2/11/03 4:06am
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
I don't really want to know too much either about the Sith and the Republic.
However, I would have liked to hear something about the Jedi's diminishing role in the universe and the Trade Federation's previous acts of 'terror'.
-----signature-----
"Their people are suffering, Master Jedi! I must return."
- Lady Amidala - RRM, Episode III
---------------------------------------------------------------
This weeks X-Site! is...
http://www.jedicenter.com.br/
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Oscar_the_Gungan
Registered:
Jan '01
|
Date Posted:
2/11/03 4:05pm
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
Maybe I misunderstood what this thread was about, but the title had vs. in it if it wasn't meant to be a comparison it may have needed to be called something different.
On the subject of hints of galactic history there are all sorts of visual clues in the prequels to historical events and even cultures we may never learn much about.
There are many clues all over Naboo, like the giant stone heads and the ruins in the Gungan sacred place. None of that stuff looks like it was built by Gungans.
-----signature-----
I'm open for business, business of giving you the business," Meatwad
Harold:"The universe tends to unfold as it should."
Star Wars is forever, the Force will be with you .... always!
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ternian
Registered:
May '00
|
Date Posted:
2/11/03 6:10pm
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
Maybe I misunderstood what this thread was about, but the title had vs. in it if it wasn't meant to be a comparison it may have needed to be called something different.
When did Vs. mean 'comparison?' If I want I wanted a comparison, I would have asked for one. This is putting Tolkien's theory up against what has been seen in the Saga. I think my inital post is extremely clear on this.
As for the Naboo 'heads,' that may aide the viewer in a visual history, but does not give the story a history.
-----signature-----
"Their people are suffering, Master Jedi! I must return."
- Lady Amidala - RRM, Episode III
---------------------------------------------------------------
This weeks X-Site! is...
http://www.jedicenter.com.br/
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
|
Date Posted:
2/12/03 12:02am
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
|
Tolkien also gave us a visual history, by describing the surroundings in his books.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ternian
Registered:
May '00
|
Date Posted:
2/12/03 12:33am
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
But that doesn't work well in SW. Even the OT hasn't (yet) shown us anything that resembles what we are seeing in the PT (other than early SD's).
What we require is the suggestion of history. We need to know about the past activities of the Trade Federation. We need to have hints of King Veruna's sudden departure and Queen Amidala's quick ascension, we need to know a little about the Jedi's changing role in the galaxy.
-----signature-----
"Their people are suffering, Master Jedi! I must return."
- Lady Amidala - RRM, Episode III
---------------------------------------------------------------
This weeks X-Site! is...
http://www.jedicenter.com.br/
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
jedi5150
Registered:
Dec '00
|
Date Posted:
2/13/03 8:50am
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
- Date Edited:
2/13/03 8:57am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
jedi5150
|
I don't post here a lot, but I've gotta jump in here:
"When did Vs. mean 'comparison?' "
From Dictionary.com:
ver·sus ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vûrss, -sz)
prep.
Abbr. v. or vs. Against: the plaintiff versus the defendant; Army versus Navy.
As the alternative to or in contrast with: “freedom of information versus invasion of privacy” (Ian Hamilton).
OR
\Ver"sus\, prep. [L., toward, turned in the direction of, from vertere, versum, to turn. See Verse.] Against; as, John Doe versus Richard Roe; -- chiefly used in legal language, and abbreviated to v. or vs.
I would think that the VS in the title of this thread is used as a preposition, meaning "Against; as, John Doe versus Richard Roe". So the title of this thread means "Tolkien AGAINST Galactic History". This usually implies a comparison or competition, IE Dallas VS Houston. In other words, VS means "which one is right" or "which one is better". Comparision seems to be implied here.
"If I want I wanted a comparison, I would have asked for one. This is putting Tolkien's theory up against what has been seen in the Saga. I think my inital post is extremely clear on this."
I think you did ask for a comparision, just by the title of the thread.
In your original post, you said "Does the PT suffer from a lack of glimpses of a "large history" as described by Tolkein? "
Although this may seem like a simple question, you are INDEED asking how the PT COMPARES to Tolkein, at least in one aspect, the larger history.
And by using "VS" in the title of the thread, you imply comparison (IMHO).
Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here.
[EDIT]
Oh, and to stay on topic:
I think that the PT IS the deeper history in the SW saga. Unless you bring the EU into things. Then many of the issues brought up here have, I believe, at least been explored. The "Tales of the Jedi" series explored the beginnings of the Jedi vs Sith (I think, it's been a while).
[End edit]
-----signature-----
jedi-5150@fanforce.net idaho@alpinegarrison.com TK-1430, 501st Alpine Garrison Join the Empire! http://www.501st.com/
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
scuiggefest
Registered:
Dec '02
|
Date Posted:
2/13/03 10:05am
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
|
Obi-Wan = Gandalf
Yoda = Elrond
Han Solo = Aragorn
Leia = Arwen
Luke = Frodo
Vader = The Ring
Palpatine = Sauron
Dooku = Sarumon
Chewie = Gimli
Biggs = Boromir
Tarkin = Boromir's Father
Master Windu = Bilbo
R2-D2 = Sam
C-3PO = Pippin
Jabba = Smaug
Admiral Fish Head = Faramir
Lando = Legolas
Kit Fisto = Beorn
The Trade Federation = Goblins
Storm Troopers = Orcs
Cloners = Eagles
Millenion Falcon = Tree Guys
Padme = Galadriel
Jango = Isildur
Boba Fett = Worm Tongue
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Oscar_the_Gungan
Registered:
Jan '01
|
Date Posted:
2/13/03 11:25am
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
- Date Edited:
2/13/03 11:28am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Oscar_the_Gungan
|
Now, that's just silly.
I think the problem is we are talking about what can be done in a book as opposed to what can be done in a movie.
All the LOTR movies can do is offer hints to the history Tolkien wrote about it. THere isn't time to get into it in a movie. I think Lucas and Jackson know if they took the time dwell on that stuff they are going ot lose much of the audience who aren't into it as much as we all are.
As far as Star Wars history goes, it is there if we want it and we aren't worrying about canon.
-----signature-----
I'm open for business, business of giving you the business," Meatwad
Harold:"The universe tends to unfold as it should."
Star Wars is forever, the Force will be with you .... always!
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Glockenspiel
Registered:
Jul '02
|
Date Posted:
2/13/03 4:00pm
Subject:
RE: Tolkein Vs. Galactic History
- Date Edited:
2/13/03 4:09pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Glockenspiel
|
Hehe I like this game
Gandalf = Jesus
Frodo = Carl
Sam = Odyssyes
Tom Bombadil = Zeus (hell yeah he is  )
Boromir = Loke
Merry = Butters from South Park
Pippin = The Dell Dude
Arwen = Hera
Sauron = Satan
Shelob = Cattaterfish
Gollum = Rumplestilskin
Aragorn = Arthur (because they both begin with the letter A)
Galadriel = Gwenyvere
Saruman = Merlins evil twin
Um I'm drawing a blank here...:)
-----signature-----
"Pass the courvoisier"
"Fear not, for one day we shall have good tasting soup
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
