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Topic:
Kurosawa's influence on SW
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the_immolated_one
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
1/11 8:59pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Darth-Stryphe posted:
I'm unlocking and upping it at user request.
That was me.
I never watched "Hidden Fortress" until the other day so I never could reply. I dug "Hidden Fortress" and it had a good message but it wasn't anything like "Star Wars". Other than comparing R2 and 3PO being caught up in an epic struggle to the 2 peasants being caught up in an epic struggle, I really don't see much similarity. I probably wouldn't have even made that connection without Lucas saying it here and there because R2 wants to do his duty or is programmed to do his duty or whatever, but the 2 peasants are just in it for selfish reasons and it isn't until the end of the movie that the peasants learn what is most important in life.
However, it's a good movie. I loved the shots of Toshirô Mifune riding atop a horse with his sword drawn.
But "Hidden Fortress" is just a good Kurosawa movie and "Yojimbo" and "Seven Samurai" are great Kurosawa movies.
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Pizza-the-Hutt
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/12 3:37am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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darth_frared posted:
not only the kurosawa nod, also it would have given the sage more racial depth IMO.
I was reading Zombie's Secret History of Star Wars last night and there's a quote in there from Lucas where he says that if Mifube had been cast, Han Solo would most likely have been black.
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Pizza-the-Hutt
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/12 3:15pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--BVUTOrYP8
Has some comparison clips of Star Wars and other films including The Hidden Fortress, Flash Gordon, and The Searchers. It's only short but is interesting for those of us who haven't actually seen some of the films that have been discussed in the thread.
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Darth-Stryphe
Title: Saga Manager
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
1/12 3:47pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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I never watched "Hidden Fortress" until the other day so I never could reply. I dug "Hidden Fortress" and it had a good message but it wasn't anything like "Star Wars".
They are very different kind of movies, but there are a lot of scenes and elements from HF that served to inspire scenes and elements in SW. For example, the two peasants wander through the wilderness, get mad at each other, part ways only to get captured and end up together again. Likewise the droids through the wilderness, get mad at each other, part ways only to get captured and end up together again. And there is the princess pretending to be the commoner as she is smuggled through enemy lands, much like Padme pretends to be the hand maiden as she is smuggled through dangerous lands. So forth. There are many other influences from which SW pulled, but this is undeniable one of them.
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the_immolated_one
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
1/12 6:05pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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I was talking about the original Star Wars movie which I think is what Lucas was talking about when he said "Star Wars" wasn't like "The Hidden Fortress".
I noticed that there were posters here on this thread who spoke of the Princess Yuki/Queen Amidala connection but I think Lucas was just referring to the original movie in the interview that's on "The Hidden Fortress" DVD. I don't have "The Hidden Fortress" so I can't check it out right now, but I'm not saying that the Yuki/Amidala connection doesn't exist.
Since you're a Kurosawa fan, Stryphe: Did you ever compare "Yojimbo" to "A Fistful of Dollars"?
I just did the other day. I like Sergio Leone but I wonder if he really thought he could get away with that. I guess if "A Fistful of Dollars" would have been a flop then Kurosawa wouldn't have went after Leone for restitution.
I got the Netflix membership and just watched "Sanjuro" today. They're good movies but it would help if they would put a voice over commentary on the DVD's like they did with "Seven Samauri" because I need some of the aspects of the culture explained to me. Like when the peasant girl was willing to give herself to the young samauri in "Seven Samauri" there is a whole reason as to why she is upset but gives herself to him anyway that was lost on me until I watched it with the commentary turned on.
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Darth-Stryphe
Title: Saga Manager
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
1/14 10:08am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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I was talking about the original Star Wars movie which I think is what Lucas was talking about when he said "Star Wars" wasn't like "The Hidden Fortress".
Well, for the singular movie, no, you're right, I don't think he borrowed too heavily. Mostly it was the droids\peasants parrellel, which GL has admitted as the inspiration. Not to mention the Jedi were originally inspired by samurai. But that's about it.
Since you're a Kurosawa fan, Stryphe: Did you ever compare "Yojimbo" to "A Fistful of Dollars"?
No, but I had heard that FoD was a re-make of Yojimbo. I wasn't aware they weren't licensed to do so, though.
As to the commentaries, that would be cool, but Criterion is kind of hit and miss with their special features. A lot of the Kurosawa DVDs do have commentaries, but those two got skipped. I mean, they have zero special features. Kind of annoying. HF doesn't have commentaries, either.
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
1/14 8:24pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
- Date Edited:
1/14 8:26pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
zombie
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Actually, Yojimbo and Sanjuro were re-issued by Criterion last year in remastered special editions that have documentaries and commentary tracks. Kurosawa's films were some of the earliest DVDs they put out so a lot of them have bad A/V and no extras but CRiterion have been re-issuing some of them in improved special editions; Hidden Fortress I think probably won't because the transfer was newer and it had a supplemental interview (as opposed to a more critical candidate like the horrendous current DVD of High and Low).
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the_immolated_one
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
1/15 12:22am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Darth-Stryphe posted:
No, but I had heard that FoD was a re-make of Yojimbo. I wasn't aware they weren't licensed to do so, though.
Yeah, Kurosawa or someone got a fistful of yen over that and if you ever compare the 2 movies you'll certainly understand why they sued.
zombie posted:
Actually, Yojimbo and Sanjuro were re-issued by Criterion last year in remastered special editions that have documentaries and commentary tracks.
Cool. I'll have to look into getting a hold of those.
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Darth-Stryphe
Title: Saga Manager
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
1/15 10:08am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Oh, right, zombie, yeah, I had heard about those. I pondered pioking them up, but I think I'll hold out for high def. 7S was actually the second Criterion DVD to be released, and it had a good selection of features, so I was surprised the others got the shaft.
Yeah, Kurosawa or someone got a fistful of yen over that and if you ever compare the 2 movies you'll certainly understand why they sued.
I watched Yojimbo with a friend of mine who was an Eastwood fan, and his response was "wow, its the same movie".
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
1/15 10:23am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Darth-Stryphe posted:
I watched Yojimbo with a friend of mine who was an Eastwood fan, and his response was "wow, its the same movie".
It's like Star Wars and Eragon. Right down to the sunset.
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the_immolated_one
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
1/16 8:25am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Darth-Stryphe posted:
I watched Yojimbo with a friend of mine who was an Eastwood fan, and his response was "wow, its the same movie".
So you never watched "Fistful of Dollars"?
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Darth-Stryphe
Title: Saga Manager
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
1/16 10:02am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Nope. I hated Westerns as a kid, so I watched very few (and thus have become very behind on the genre). I didn't learn to appreciate the genre until I took a class on it in college.
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the_immolated_one
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
1/16 11:18am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Darth-Stryphe posted:
Nope. I hated Westerns as a kid, so I watched very few (and thus have become very behind on the genre). I didn't learn to appreciate the genre until I took a class on it in college.
I was exactly the same way. I came to appreciate westerns in my adult years because when I was a kid it was all about Star Wars, Indy, Snake Plissken, Conan, and Terminator. I just didn't know "High Noon", "Shane", and the original "3:10 to Yuma" were great movies because I was just a kid and even though they have some really cheesy melodrama in them they're great movies about the human experience. The thing is: It's not really about the western genre when it comes to the dollars trilogy. It's about Sergio Leone. Anyone who likes movies should appreciate the dollars trilogy especially "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" which is one of the greatest movies ever. It's really not about Eastwood being great but he is cool in the movie. Eli Wallach is the one who is awesome in the movie. He's just freaking awesome as Tuco and Lee Van Cleef is great too. The duel at the end of the movie is pretty much the greatest merge of music, sound, and visuals of any movie ever.
Sergio's other loose trilogy is good too but I'm not a big fan of "Once Upon A Time In America" which is part of that loose trilogy. "Once Upon A Time...The Revolution" is good and "Once Upon A Time In The West" is an incredible work of art and is the pinnacle of Sergio's career as a western film maker.
John Milius is a huge Sergio Leone fan and I believe in that George Lucas interview on "The Hidden Fortress" DVD, Lucas credits Milius with introducing Lucas to Kurosawa. Lucas made it sound like Milius pretty much had to drag Lucas into a Kurosawa movie that was showing on the USC campus one day.
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Darth-Stryphe
Title: Saga Manager
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
1/17 10:07am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Well, I haven't watched many Sergio Leone movies, either, but I'll make a point to try and watch the Man with No Man trilogy. The professional-styled westerns, which the Man with No Man trilogy can be classified as, was my least favorite sub-genre of the western, so I had not been inclined to see them before now, but I'll take you on your word that they are good. They are definitely very popular.
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
1/17 1:19pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Darth-Stryphe posted:
Well, I haven't watched many Sergio Leone movies, either, but I'll make a point to try and watch the Man with No Man trilogy. The professional-styled westerns, which the Man with No Man trilogy can be classified as, was my least favorite sub-genre of the western, so I had not been inclined to see them before now, but I'll take you on your word that they are good. They are definitely very popular.
As a huge fan of the western genre, I'd say Good, The Bad and The Ugly easily eclipses anything that John Ford ever did, not to take away from Ford's accomplishments in the genre. But Leone was the real genius of the western, IMO, even if it wasn't always a totally realistic one--but it certainly felt real, as real as cinema is capable of making an enviornment seem, and the picaresque elements of TGTBATU really elevate it to one of few true "epics" of the genre. The modern western film owes much more to Leone than to Ford, so if you haven't seen a Leone western its like saying "I don't like space fantasy movies" but then not having seen Star Wars, if you follow what I am getting at.
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