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Topic:
Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
4/29 11:58pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Thank goodness George was tasteful enough to avoid the monster-tooth wipe!
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"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
5/1 3:23pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Can it be said that a wipe generally indicates the passage of some amount of time?
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/1 10:52pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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No, I don't think so. It could indicate a passage of time, but it might also indicate a mere change of location that is contemporaneous, ie taking place at the same time.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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the_immolated_one
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
5/1 11:38pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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In "Throne of Blood" as wipe means a slight passage of time and a fade to black means the beginning of the next act.
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
5/2 9:06am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Wipes generally indicate a passage of time. Sometimes they are used to cross-cut between two sets of storylines/characters, in which case it is possible that both events are occuring continuously/simultaneously, but in virtually all uses a wipe indicates a jump forward in time.
For instance the aforementioned example in Star Wars: Luke and Ben are at the sandcrawler, wipe and we've jumped ahead a few minutes or hours where they are travelling in the speeder, wipe and we've jumped ahead another few minutes or hours and they are atop the cliff now, and then there is a final wipe and we jump ahead another few minutes and see the speeder entering Mos Eisely.
I've never seen a wipe used within a storyline used as an alternative to a continuous cut (ie in a conversation, for example instead of cutting from close up to close up), its practically only used as an alternative to a jump cut.
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I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/2 9:20am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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I'm trying to think of some examples in the Saga in which a wipe means merely a change of location, of scenery, as opposed to a passage of time... but I'm not coming up with anything. I hereby retract my earlier assertion, and defer to zombie's excellent assessment, above.
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"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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the_immolated_one
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
5/2 10:56am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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Vortigern99 posted:
I'm trying to think of some examples in the Saga in which a wipe means merely a change of location, of scenery, as opposed to a passage of time... but I'm not coming up with anything. I hereby retract my earlier assertion, and defer to zombie's excellent assessment, above.
There are two scenes that are happening simultaneously in "Attack of the Clones" which are juxtaposed by the use of a wipe.
It's when Anakin goes on the blood drunk killing rampage of the Tuskens and then Yoda senses this event.
It's a nice wipe too: The wipe starts from the bottom, left-hand corner of the frame but this transition actually turns into two wipes because notice another entirely different circle-style wipe starts to surround Anakin's face, his face is off center to the right half of the screen, then the circle wipe closes in on his face while we then see it's a pillar in Yoda's room that is driving the first wipe and for a moment Anakin's face is on the pillar.
Anakin and Yoda are both hearing Qui-Gon's voice but Anakin is beyond listening because of the rage.
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/2 11:01am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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^ ^ Good catch! I hereby retract my earlier retraction, and call zombie a silly person. 
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
5/2 12:15pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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zombie posted:
Sometimes they are used to cross-cut between two sets of storylines/characters, in which case it is possible that both events are occuring continuously/simultaneously, but in virtually all uses a wipe indicates a jump forward in time.
I hearby decry that Vortigern's initial retraction was itself premature!
Actually, wasn't the Qui Gon thing an iris? I thought I remember that it was an iris transition, I could be wrong. Star Wars, it should also be noted, follows much stricter to the wipe conventions that Kurosawa developed, whereas with the sequels and especially the PT are more varied. ROTS I distinctly remember has this crazy "grid" pattern transition, which is very different from Star Wars where they are always wipes of some kind. I think the craziest Lucas ever got in Star Wars was a "clock" style transition where the stormtroopers are on dewbacks-- though it could be argued that thats actually a "wipe" in some sense the way it transitions the images; if you don't consider this a wipe then I think its the only non-wipe transition in the film (discounting standard transitions like fades and dissolves).
I'm actually curious now to go through Kurosawa's work and spot the different wipes he uses. 90% of them seem to me to just be standard left-right wipes but I'm sure if you study them there's probably more variety than there first seems. Of course he directed 30 films, so I guess it might be unsurprising that he would test out other types from film to film.
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I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/2 2:42pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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On a side note, the new Iron Man film uses wipe transitions as well; as I recall having just seen it, they are always side-to-side wipes.
Is the only only modern non-Star Wars use of wipes??
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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the_immolated_one
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
5/2 10:56pm
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
- Date Edited:
5/2 10:58pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
the_immolated_one
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zombie posted:
[quote=zombie]
Actually, wasn't the Qui Gon thing an iris? I thought I remember that it was an iris transition, I could be wrong.
Yes, it is just an iris wipe and I thought it was two wipes because it starts on the lower left hand side of the screen before it starts on the right but that's because it has to start on the left first because Anakin's face is not in the center but off to the right. And the camera is just panning around Yoda's room so it gave the appearance, to me, that they were using the pillar like they would to create an invisible wipe.
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Darth-Stryphe
Title: Saga Manager
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
5/5 10:02am
Subject:
RE: Kurosawa's influence on SW
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So many retractions!
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