Jedi Council Forums - What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?

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Author	Topic: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
fer_oden Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/22/05 6:23pm Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Ok. This comprehensive list is only for the PT. I will come later with the OT list. Episode I: - No actors direction by GL = Wooden performances. - R2D2 introduction. - Bad dialogue. As if a kid wrote the script. - Jar Jar Binks!!!! #1 - Jake Lloyd performance. He's really bad! #2 - The movie was very kids oriented. Not really for a SW fan. - Anakin made C3PO. Come on!! How stupid! - The virgin theory. - Midiclorians. - Bad timing in the dialogues. - Anakin's involvement in the space battle. - "Celebration" music at the end. Episode II: - Again, bad timing in the dialogues. - Again, bad direction by GL. - Again, bad script/dialogues. - R2D2/C3PO presence in the movie. A bit of them would be ok. - Yoda's speeches. I hate this Yoda, is so grumpy. Not like Yoda at ESB. - C3PO on the robot factory and as a federation robot. I hated his lines. - R2D2 flying!!! Ahh! Come on! - The "romance". Or should I say, lack of romance in the dialogues between Anakin and Padme. - Jedi's fall like flies on the arena battle. Only 16 left. - Bad engineering designs on some of the space ships. (ie. Dooku space ship, what was that? a reversed parachute?).
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kalihalcyon Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/23/05 7:05am Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Many of you are having a ball bashing the prequels, and I think I know why...two words: George Lucas. TEh SW universe is a brilliant creation, but the guy just can't direct. The OT movies were not directed by George, but the prequels were, and it made a tremendous difference. So many of the scenes, characters and plotlines discussed here are casualties of Georgie-boy's "vision," and I think that another director, one who could stand back and look at the prequels without taking GL's "vision" into such great consideration would have made these movies much better. The OT movies were also made on a limited budget, with limited technology, so the story, plot, character development etc. was critical. Without a lot of fancy visual effects (though they certainly had those for the day), the OT are also just well written and directed. I think, filmwise, they are better movies, though obviously many people here will take issue with this. (Strangly enough, I think that I prefer the prequels, but only because they show the Jedi so much...) The prequels were made to appease the fans and show GL's "vision"--and also to make HUGE amounts of $$$$$. It's vile, it's wrong, it's pretty dern annoying, but there it is. I personally take the stuff I love from the movies, (THE JEDI ROCK!) and the EU and create my own personal Star Wars universe. Yes, I am a huge nerd, but at least I'm a happy one. That being said, I am also a midichlorian basher and I wish that Qui-gon would've let Jar Jar be run over by that ship on Naboo. Oh, and Anakin (Hayden's version) seriously needs a swift kick in the rear for all that whining. (At least we know were Luke gets it though!) Jake Lloyd's Anakin is just a kid! He just had to abandon his mother into a life of slavery...give him a break! Namaste Sit Vis Vobiscum...Semper
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Quietman77 Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 3/23/05 10:36am Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most? - Date Edited: 3/23/05 10:38am (1 edits total) Edited By: Quietman77
	Kalihalcyon: With no disrespect intended, I must strongly disagree with you. Personally, I take no joy in expressing criticism in the prequel trilogy, and my reasons have nothing to do with whether Mr. Lucas directed Eps 1 and 2. In my case, the only reason that I find fault in the PT is that I watched the movies, and (particularly in the case of AoTC) simply didn't enjoy them anywhere near as much as the OT movies. I was only vaguely aware of who directed the various Star Wars movies. In fact, for all the times that I've seen it, I actually can't remember who directed RoTJ. BTW, I'm almost certain that Mr. Lucas did direct the original Star Wars, ANH. Regardless, I do agree that too many posters on this site are far too casual in speaking ill of George Lucas, especially considering that he created this entire franchise. For that reason alone, he should at least be spoken of respectfully, even when posting something critical. Speaking for myself, the only element of the franchise that I enjoy bashing is Jar Jar Binks. For all of the other artistic choices, even the ones with which I personally disagree, I can usually follow the reasoning. Jar Jar, though... I simply can't accept his antics. I don't know whether all of the Jar Jar-isms were explicitly written in the script, or if the character was one large improv routine, but somebody, somewhere along the line, should have stood up and said, "We're not doing this." Any other complaints, though, are the products of frustration. I was hoping that the PT would recreate the magic from the OT. So far, that hasn't happened. Sincerely yours: Q77
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gdt858 Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 3/23/05 11:04am Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Before I start laying into Star Wars, let it be known that these are my favorite movies of all time, it's just there's a few things here and there that could've been done that would've made these movies even better. Episode 1: The lack of any emotion. There's not a truely enjoyable character in the whole movie. Most of the film is bland dialogue. Did we really need to have a little boy (Anakin) blow up a federation starship? These movies were already unbelievble enough before that, the seen was just stupid and annoying. It would've much cooler to see the Naboo starfighters knock out the Federation starship. Also, the way Obi-wan kills Darth Maul. I have no problem with him beating Maul, but it would've better and given Obi-wan more credibility if he beat Maul just by pure skill alone and not getting lucky and catching him off guard. The way those two go at it right after Qui-gon is killed was awesome, the duel should've ended like that instead of Maul getting stupefied. Jar Jar Binks. Need I say anymore? Episode 2: Although I liked this film better than Phantom Menace, there's a lot more things that annoy me with this movie. Did anyone else find 3po's dialogue toward the ends of the movie really stupid? He's annoying enough in the OT and this just elevated it to a new level. I hate how his head gets stuck on Federation's robots body and still is functional. In the OT he gets blasted and doesn't work until Chewbacca fixes him, so why doesn't he shut down in ATOC? Also, the r2d2 scene where he suddenly has jet propulsors on his legs. I know Lucas is trying to add some features the new films but this is just lame. We don't need droids being heroes in this movie. R2 does enough in ESB . The dialogue between Padme and Anakin is pretty bad also. Portman is actually a pretty good actress so it's disappointing to see her have such bad chemistry with Anakin. It may be more his fault than hers, but both come off lookng like bad actors. It doesn't help that Han Solo and Leia had excellent chemistry together and his wooing of her was funny, entertaining and pretty smooth. Mace's lightsaber skills. While I don't have a problem with Mace being a really powerful Jed, I do have a problem with Samual L. Jackson's choreography. He looks terrible in a couple scenes on Geonisis or whatever it's called. Especially when he's twirling the lightsaber around his head right before he has his back to Obi-wan. It looks so bad. Jackson defintely could've used some more sword training before the movie started filming and it shows. Episode 4: The duel between Obi-wan and Vader. Ok, so Anakin's duel with Obi-wan is basically going to be the climax of the entire new trilogy, right? So why is round 2 of their fight so anti-climatic? If Lucas really wrote all 6 episodes at once, don't you think he would've known to make ANH duel a little more exciting? I mean, this is the worse duel in all the films. With all the computer animation he added to the OT in the DVD release and special editions, don't you think he could've done something to make this battle seem more intense. I mean, Anankin is supposed to really hate Obi-wan after epsidode 3, but I don't see that in the ANH duel. Lucas was able to make Dooku look like an excellent sowrdsman even though Christopher Lee is 80 years old. I'm sure he could've done more to ANH to make the scene better and more intense. At the very least, tweaked the soundtrack a little to make scene feel more important than it actually is. The look of the Death Star. Lucas went through all the trouble to recreate a lot of the special effects in the movie that looked bad. But why did he do it half *ss? Some of the scenes of the surface of the Death Star look so fake it almost ruins the movie. You can tell it's just a plastic model, but then the next scene is CG X-wing on fire in space. I mean, it's tough to see a great special effect followed by a plastic looking death star. The scenes in the trenches of the Death Star look great but most of the surface shots just doesn't cut it. Episode 5: Nothing Episode 6: Mainly the scene where Vader's super star destroyer crashes into the Death Star. Again, why go through the trouble of recreating a lot of the special effects in the new editions and DVD's and leave one of the most important scenes looking bad still. This is the flaghsip of the Imperial Fleet and probably the most impressive looking space ship to be conceived in a movie. When it crashes into the Death Star there should've been a massive explosion and I would've liked to have seen the Death Star a bit more leveled from that. You take a ship that big and crash it into Earth and see what happens. I mean, the planes that flew into the WTC on 9/11 created a more spectacular explosion than this. Those are probaly 1/50 the size of the Executor. To me it just looks like one plastic model crasing into a larger one. It puts a tarnish on one of the coolest space battles ever. Everything else in the battle looks great, why let the most pivotal scene of the battle look the worst?
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jediAce90 Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 3/23/05 12:58pm Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Almost nothing in the saga annoys or irritates me. I love the whole thing. Sure there are parts (very few though) that I don't completely agree with but it's not my story. This is George Lucas's story, he can make it however he likes. I'll love it all the same. It's Star Wars come on!!! -----signature----- The Force is obviously strong in this one.
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DeJade_Vu Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 3/23/05 8:19pm Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	I love the whole OT. It's awesome. But there's some things in the prequels that bug me: 1. Midichlorians. They wreck the whole mystical, divine aspect of the Force, if you ask me, and the subsequent explanations given for their existence (that they really are NOT the Force, but are created by it, or somehow exist wherever the Force is) make them even more disappointing...and darn POINTLESS! 2. Anakin's whole "no father" bit. Being a devout Catholic I found that extremely annoying. WHY, GL, WHY??? 3. That dumb two-headed sports announcer alien in Ep.I. The first moment I saw and heard it, I turned to my mom and said, "This is Star Wars?" -----signature----- I'm a PBS mind in an MTV world. ~Eschew Obfuscation~ Pope Benedict XVI Owns You I want it--I want my phonecall. --the Joker Mara Jade Forever
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DarthFlatulence Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/23/05 8:42pm Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Have to agree with a previous point about GL's direction of the prequel trilogy. He is notorious for not giving actors any direction. Carrie Fisher and David Prowse both said that they more or less had to develop their own characters because George would just look at them and say "What? I told you what I want, now just go do it", and after that he wouldn't say much else. However, George's lack of direction may not be the only blame for the blandness of the prequels. It might also say something about the talent of today's actors. I think Star Wars: A New Hope came out pretty darn good even though GL directed. The actors themselves seemed to be of a higher caliber. 20 years later, same director, different actors, totally different result. Jake Loyd as "Manaquin Skywalker". Natalie "the Drama Queen" Portman. Ewan "I'll make the lightsabre sounds with my mouth then bash the film off camera" McGregor. I mean, you can only make lemonade if you have lemons, right? As a last illustration point, who are the best actors in the prequel trilogy? My vote goes for Ian McDarmid, Liam Neeson, and Christopher Lee. They have many years of experience, and they bring a bit more to their characters. They seem to have no trouble with the direction and their characters are more believable. -----signature----- "May the Shwartz be with you!" "Raspberry! There is only on person who would give me the Rasberry!" "Prepare for Ludicrous speed!" "What's wrong Colonal Sanders? Chicken?"
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ceridwen1977 Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 3/24/05 3:12am Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	The thing that both irritates and fascinates me about the whole saga is the demands that it makes upon your imagination and what is plausible. This for me is epitomised by the scene in ESB when Luke tries to lift the X-wing and fails, saying to Yoda "You ask the impossible." That is exactly what GL is asking us to do - believe the impossible - believe that 9 year olds can build complex robots, 14 year olds can rule countries and 19 year old senators have the strength to hold out against evil dark lords, that "rubber gremlin" as somone hilariously described Yoda can lift a ship out the water and perform a complex series of kung-fu kicks - amidst other things. It is a continual suspension of belief and it doesn't always work - shown by the anger/issues generated on this forum - but there us always the problem that we judge what is possible through our own culture and society and GL can not entirely escape this, even by setting star wars miles away in space in another time. So I always have to think this when I am faced with another baffling plot device, it might be possible! -----signature----- All things are subject to interpretation; whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth - Nietzsche For truth is always strange; stranger than fiction - Lord Byron
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Leia's Starboard Hair Bun Registered: Apr '99	Date Posted: 3/24/05 9:59am Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	The midicholorians and Anakin's immaculate conception also rank waaay up my list. Here are two other ones that particularly rankle me: 1) TPM Anakin (aka Mini-Vader) who is told to "stay in that cockpit" by Qui-Gon during the ruckus on Naboo. As soon as I heard this phrase, I knew the pain was on its way. But I didn't think for a moment how excruciating it would really get: Anakin accidentally flies out of the hangar and achieves planetary orbit on autopilot. He then becomes miraculously skilled as a pilot in space despite childish manuvers ("Let's try spinning, that's a good trick") and only having had experience in the largely 2-dimensional racing of pod racing. But wait! After charging into the fray (I would also like to point out as an aside that he can't even see over the dashboard in the ship) Anakin flies at about 500 mph by accident into the unprotected hold of a giant battleship, skids to a halt without crashing or having his ship disintegrate, and ends up in the perfect spot to accidentally fire the right kind of torpedo down an adjacent hallway and into an exposed generator just sitting there in the open for some reason. Even as I write this I still can't believe that whole sequence actually happened. People who like it will say something about 'the Force' but seriously...dude... this is way too implausible for anyone to rationalize. Plus, Flight of the Navigator already beat all of this to death way back in 1986. I once saw this really cool movie called 'Star Wars: A New Hope.' In it, the defining moment for the young hero is when he uses the Force to blow up a giant ship with torpedoes. Here, basically the same thing happens 'cept that the hero is 6 years old and does it by accident. I just can't help thinking how immensely this entire back end of the film would have improved if Anakin really had just sat in the cockpit and disappeared through to the end credits. 2) Obi-Wan tracking Jango to Kamino by way of a "Kamino saber-dart". This is just..ugh. I mean, I've seen some creaky plot devices in my day, but having Jango literally fire a critical clue directly between Anakin and Obi-Wan when at all other times he uses blaster fire is a horrible way to advance the plot. I'm surprised the dart didn't have a little tag on it that read "Property of J. Fett. If Found, Return to 3910 East Tidal Basin, Kamino." But that's not all! No, the path taken by Obi-Wan to uncover this "mystery" had me practically curled fetal in my seat from shame. The 1950s era diner. The library. The younglings ("Hmmm.. invisible planet-sized gravity anomaly right where I expected a planet to be. I better go ask Yoda and some first graders"). Again, can you imagine how much this would have been improved if Obi-Wan had just said, "Hey, I recognize this, it's a dart manufactured on Kamino and sold nowhere else." Or remember that tracking device he threw on the Slave I as it left Kamino? Maybe you could have just thrown that onto Jango's jetpack when he fled on Coruscant? We're not trying to impress Rube Goldberg here, people. -----signature----- "On certain occasions, when the art matches that vision perfectly, Lucas will pull out a "Fabulouso" stamp." - starwars.com "I wanted to go out at the top of my game and at a time of peace and tranquility." - Darth Sapient
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Annadalla Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/24/05 11:19am Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Eh, most annoying character Boss Nass/Jar Jar (tie) Most annoying scene: uh...the underwater thing with Jar Jar most annoying Plot Line: The death of Boba Fett! I LOVE FETT! -----signature----- Proud Lover of Hayden Christensen! ~Shadows In The Light~ link: http://boards.theforce.net/Before_the_Saga/b10475/19403578/?1 "Hello There." ~Obi-Wan, ROTS
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Idaho_Vorkosigan Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 3/24/05 11:08pm Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Hate: Midiclorians Jake Loyd, Hayden Christiansen, and Portman (only in AOTC, she was good in TPM) ALL dialogue in AOTC... hell, ALL of AOTC... it's the worst of the lot. -----signature----- "Don't be so tolerant, that you tolerate intolerance."
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Blyte_the_Noghri Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 3/25/05 11:34am Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Jar Jar and the Ewoks bug me now. However, when I saw Jedi at 11 years old, I liked them(Wookies would have been better). My seven year old laughs at loud at Jar Jar, so I guess George knew what he was doing getting a new generation into the films. All of the infantile humor gets on my nerves. Jar Jar stepping in Bantha poodoo. Sarlac burping. Chewie doing the Tarzan yell. Han shooting first is bad. Luke and Leia being siblings and kissing in ESB(shiver). A second death star, didn't we just do this 2 movies ago. Ewoks instead of Wookies(because Chewie was too techie and Ewoks were more kid friendly). Not having the Clone Wars on film, except the beginning of it and the end of it. Why couldn't AOTC been episode I with TPM being severely trimmed as like a flashback, then The Clone Wars as Ep II, and ROTS being the third? Jar Jar was too over-the-top for me. Ani-Padme romance more forced than Han-Leia. Midichlorians and the virgin birth could have both been cut, Ani is special, we get it. All of this is just nit-picking though, because I love the movies and the universe GL created. -----signature----- "Have you noticed, wherever you go there's a body count?"-George Mason (24) "I am not a committee!" - Leia "Mmmmmm...donuts!" - Homer Simpson
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Darth_Ravager Registered: Jun '03	Date Posted: 3/25/05 11:56am Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Hmmm...excellent thread. I will approach the PT first: 1. Midichlorians. These were totally unnecessary. The result could have been achieved if Qui Gonn had said, "I have never the Force as strong with anyone as with Anakin." Plus, the Force would not be de-mystified. 2. Starting Anakin as a toddler. He should have been at the age Hayden was in AOTC. 3. Democractically elected 14 year old queen of planet falls in love with toddler? Not buying it. The saga could easily have begun with Obi, Ani, and Padme at their AOTC ages (which negates need for Qui Gonn). 4. Jedi as quasi-priests, i.e. no love. I would have preferred a love triangle. Would help account for Anakin's hatred of Obi later. As for the OT, I have only one: 1. No Ewoks. Endor should have been Wookiee slave planet. Bonus: No Ewok dance party at end of ROTJ. -----signature----- "On my signal, unleash Hell." [=====\|:°\|\|\|{-----------------------------------------------
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IDontLikeYouEither Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/25/05 6:28pm Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Scene: Dooku's dialogue with Yoda in AOTC. Its indicative of the dialogue in general in the PT, but who talks like that? Character: Jar Jar, goes without saying. Plotline: Anakin in love with Padme for ten years without ever seeing her in person. I had crushes when I was a little kid, but do I remember their names now? No. I could believe it if it all came back when they meet again in AOTC. He could be knocked head over heels, in total awe of her beauty or something, but in love for ten long years, puh-leese. It's like he's been having dirty little fantasies of her for years, and its all coming out now that they're in contact. I guess GL thought that's the way it had to be. Anakin had to have strong feelings for her, that's why Palpatine suggested they protect her. He knew what would happen if those two got together. Still, I think it could have been more believable, for me, anyways. Their romance, I could believe it better if the actors believed it. The time that I think it is most believable was when they where in the meadow. They looked like they were really flirting, not just delivering lines. Most of the time it just feels stilted.
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Jedi_Master_Scou Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/26/05 10:00am Subject: RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
	Jake Loyd and Hayden Christiansen, nuff said. The death of Boba Fett! I LOVE FETT! He survies in the books (I think its Tales of the Bounty Hunters). -----signature----- There is no death, there is the Force. Betsy is my shark, you mess with me you mess with him. -Sic em, Betsy! Don't drink and post, learn from my mistakes.
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