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Topic:
What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
3/10 8:00am
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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Latverian33, just FYI, there are individual threads for each one of those perceived criticisms in the PT forum. Posting them en masse, as you've done in several other threads, is a bit of a challenge to the art of reasoned discussion. We could go point-by-point, rebutting each apparent flaw and reiterating arguments that have been carried on for dozens of pages in other threads. Or, you could simply visit those other threads (starting with the Thread Index in the PT Forum) and read the discussions for yourself.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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latverian33
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
3/10 8:12am
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
- Date Edited:
3/10 8:12am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
latverian33
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omg. What does one have to do here sit down and read though every thread as if it is a college exam before posting for fear of attack?
You are nitpicking.
The topic of THIS thread is what plotline or scene irritates you the most. Correct?
Those things irritate me.
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"Everything is Cannon fodder"-Megatron
V.I.N.CENT: To quote Cicero: rashness is the characteristic of youth, prudence that of mellowed age, and discretion the better part of valor
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
3/10 10:06am
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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Latverian, you're free to post massive lists of already-discussed points of irritation. I don't mean to imply otherwise. But I am free, as a fellow JC member, to call into question the usefulness of posting such a list. It's difficult and time-consuming to rebutt such an extensive post, especially given that a wealth of discussion already exists, waiting for you read through it and discover that -- lo and behold! -- there may be very reasonable explanations to your questions and perceived flaws.
Further, as a mod, I'm free to suggest that if you're truly interested in engaging in an in-depth discussion about your criticisms -- which is what the Saga Forum is designed for -- then you may wish to consult those many threads, both here and in the PT Forum, that deal with your above-listed points of grievance. If on the other hand you're interested only in airing your anger and frustration with the PT, I will openly request that you leave the Saga Forum and pursue your goals elsewhere.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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latverian33
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
3/10 10:48am
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
- Date Edited:
3/10 10:49am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
latverian33
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I have no desire to vent anger.
Nor do I wish to come to this forum or ANY forum to instigate or engage in arguments.
I do however welcome a heated and passionate debate so long as it is done respectfully and with tact.
So let me get this straight.
Before I post ANYTHING I must read through every thread to make sure what I want to say has not already been touched on?
Are you serious?
This thread about what in the series bothers you. I posted some of those things.
What is the problem?
-----signature-----
"Everything is Cannon fodder"-Megatron
V.I.N.CENT: To quote Cicero: rashness is the characteristic of youth, prudence that of mellowed age, and discretion the better part of valor
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
3/10 11:36am
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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latverian33 posted:
Before I post ANYTHING I must read through every thread to make sure what I want to say has not already been touched on?
Look, I'm going to say this one more time, so read carefully: You can post a list of massive grievances. I never said you couldn't. By the same token, I can direct you to pre-existing threads debating each individual issue. Furthermore, I can -- and will -- also remind you that the Saga Forum is for in-depth discussion, not simple listings of perceived flaws.
This is the last word on the subject. Any further questions you have about what does or does not belong in this thread or in the Saga Forum, please PM me by selecting the "Private Messages" link on your toolbar and typing "Vortigern99" into the PM recipient space.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Sevb32
Registered:
Dec '07
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Date Posted:
3/10 3:29pm
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
- Date Edited:
3/10 3:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Sevb32
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"The Properties of Lava (Sweat? Battle + Lava = No sweat)
This battle ends up with Anakin and Obi-Wan riding hover-platforms mere feet over a lava flow. Now, I'm all for fantastic fantasy elements in movies (particularly Star Wars movies), but suspending disbelief at this point is beyond difficult. Given that lava is generally around 2000 degrees Fahrenheit (1093 degrees Celsius), I find it difficult to believe that Anakin and Obi-Wan not only have no problems battling without bursting into flames, but that they don't even break a sweat! You would think that the stress and exertion of combat alone would cause at least a few beads of sweat to form on their brows. Of course, the mysteries of the Force always allow for apologist excuses in any case. They were most likely using the secret Force climate-control technique to keep cool."
Those droids and hover miner sleds were heat shielded.
Lava can be 1300 degrees, it all has to do with the make-up of the rock. It seemed to me that they were sweating the whole time, look at how wet their hair seemed to be! I know they used water squirt bottles on them during the filming.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
3/10 3:43pm
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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latverian33 posted:
It is a little difficult to swallow since Qui-Gon learned the secret of immortality after he died.
Not necessarily.
latverian33 posted:
Another interesting question raised by this plot element is how Darth Vader seems to learn the same skill. Was he Force-eavesdropping on Obi-Wan while he communed with Qui-Gon on Tatooine? Did the Emperor teach him this trick? If so, why didn't the Emperor crash the party that the dead Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin had on Endor at the end of Return of the Jedi?
Anakin learns the power through the assistance of Yoda and Obi-Wan. The Sith do not know the ability, as evidenced by Vader's seeming confusion in ANH at Obi-Wan's disappearance, and his later statements about Obi-Wan. In fact, the ROTS novel tells us that the Sith cannot achieve the power because it is a purely light side power which involves selflessness and compassion.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
3/10 6:33pm
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
latverian33 posted:
It is a little difficult to swallow since Qui-Gon learned the secret of immortality after he died.
Not necessarily.
This is actually an interesting aspect I never really paid much attention to--when exactly did Qui Gon learn how to be immortal? It would seem it was at some undefined point in his past when he came across a shaman who instructed him. So this would mean that for the entire length of TPM, Qui Gon really is harboring this secret that he has the ability to live forever. It would have been interesting to make this integrated into his character better. It also raises some questions--that being its somewhat suspicious the way he would not share the biggest discovery about the Force in Jedi history.
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I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
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chibiangi
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
3/10 6:45pm
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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Maybe they learn for realz when they actually die?
I uh, kind of like to think that Yoda and Ob1 were there to help Anakin make the transition. As in their manipulation of the force to keep their egos allows them to manipulate the force in order to allow Anakin to keep his.
Does anyone know the EU? Did Anakin ever appear again to Luke/Leia? Also, did either twin figure out who their real mother was and go to Naboo?
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Talk nerdy to me.
mujaki na kao de boku ni hohoemu
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/10 6:58pm
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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" Palpatine and Skywalker
When Anakin finally gets his first assignment on his own to protect the senator he and Palpatine have an exchange in Palpatine's chambers. "It seems that your patience has finally paid off," Palpatine says. "Your guidance, more than my patience," responds Anakin. What guidance? What are they talking about? This is the only exchange of dialogue between the two in the entire movie and nothing is ever mentioned of Palpatine's guidance. If they had shown any sort of bonding between these characters then perhaps this could have been a good scene but again we are forced to watch a scene which refers to things we either don't see or that never happen. It's as if Lucas felt he needed to build the relationship between the two but he was too busy making lousy special effects to bother including the interpersonal dialogue that it would have required. It may have even required a scene that wasn't filmed entirely in front of a blue screen."
Did you know that there was 10 years in between TPM and AOTC?
Palpatine's last line in TPM was to Anakin, "And you young Skywalker, we will watch your career with great interest."
Cut to AOTC, ten years later, is it that hard to assume that Palpatine and Anakin conversed in these TEN YEARS?
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"I love the smell of Napalm in the morning."
McCain/Palin '08
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Gharlane
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
3/10 7:08pm
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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zombie posted:
This is actually an interesting aspect I never really paid much attention to--when exactly did Qui Gon learn how to be immortal?
Perhaps due to his connection to the living force (something that sets him apart from the other jedi) rather than through some form of jedi instruction.
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
3/10 7:26pm
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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Well in the script he explains that he encountered a shaman that taught him it.
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I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/10 8:22pm
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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zombie posted:
Well in the script he explains that he encountered a shaman that taught him it.
Are scripts considered canon? Or is it just the films themselves?
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"I love the smell of Napalm in the morning."
McCain/Palin '08
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
3/10 8:42pm
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
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Jango10 posted:
zombie posted:
Well in the script he explains that he encountered a shaman that taught him it.
Are scripts considered canon? Or is it just the films themselves?
I don't think theres a clear answer there, despite what Lucasfilm reps will espouse. But I use the scripts as an indicator of how Lucas himself viewed and designed the character and what his intentions were.
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I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
3/10 10:49pm
Subject:
RE: What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?
- Date Edited:
3/10 10:52pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Vortigern99
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^ ^ That's a fair usage of the medium, IMO. It seems reasonable to conclude that such scenes were excised (or unfilmed) because of pacing reasons, not because they conflicted with what Lucas intended or with some other scene or event.
'Canon' isn't really debated anymore because we can each have our own pick-and-choose imaginative construction of what STAR WARS is, without appeal to some uber-authority. That said, essentially: Yes, the screenplays are as 'canonical' as the films themselves (if you elect to accept this, he said moddingly), unless the screenplay contradicts the films. In my own personal mythology, I tend to treat deleted script elements as deleted scenes -- they occurred as written or filmed. But not everyone comports with this evaluation.
[EDIT: I've now succeeded in taking this thread completely off-course. Let's continue discussing our irritations with the Saga, and why others' irritations shouldn't irritate them so much.  ]
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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