Jedi Council Forums - Is George Lucas anti Women

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Author	Topic: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
darth_snook Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 12/22/04 3:13am Subject: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	Is there an underlying tone of anti-women running through the films? In my opinion there is. For starters it is love that weakens Jedi's and ultimately causes Anakin's demise to the dark side of the Force. His love for Amidala causes him to become jealous, leading to hatred, anger etc (you all know the Yoda quote I'm sure). Is what Lucas is trying to say that the love of a woman can cause the demise of even such a great man as Anakin Skywalker. Secondarilly the bounty hunter on Coriscant who eventually gets killed by Jango Fett using the Kamino dart (outside the bar) is a woman. There is a clear reference by Obi-Wan that him and Anakin should be extra careful as she (being a woman) will be extra dangerous. Or maybe the point is that it is actually women that hold the true power in the universe. Who knows. I really shouldn't think about this sort of stuff so much. DS
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Tyranus_the_Hutt Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 12/22/04 3:39am Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	Huh? I think you're reaching here, darth_snook. As it pertains to Anakin's downfall, Lucas, like all good dramatists, understands that the arc of Skywalker's tragedy is based on flaws inherent in his character. Padme is not responsible for Anakin's downfall, Anakin is. Just as in Shakespeare's "Othello", Iago, who is a devious, repugnant character, is not responsible for Othello killing his wife - he merely planted the seeds of betrayal. Othello chose to believe what Iago told him, therefore, the fault is in him. It's all about human nature, you see. As far as the scene in "Episode 2", Obi-Wan's line about "In that case, be extra careful", pertained to the fact that Zam Wessel was a changeling, not the fact that she was a woman - she wasn't. So the anti-female thing is really a bit of a stretch, to say the least. If you want to cite a filmmaker for his misogyny, why not discuss Skip Woods or David Lynch, or someone of that ilk; there, you might have a point. -----signature----- "The screen is a magic medium. It has such power that it can retain interest as it conveys emotions and moods that no other art form can hope to tackle." - Stanley Kubrick
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ShrunkenJedi Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 12/22/04 6:31am Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	I agree, there doesn't seem to be any basis for it. Anakin's love is a factor in his downfall, both his love for Padme and Shmi, but this isn't the only factor involved-- his love of power is probably even more important. And as noted above, the women themselves don't make him do anything, it's Anakin's own attitude towards them that becomes dangerous-- the fact that he can't stand to lose them, even when he has no choice. And it seems to me that the women presented in SW are presented as strong, capable role-models... -----signature----- Fanficcer and Fanartist: Check the profile! (or below) My Fanfic Index: http://boards.theforce.net/fan_fiction_resource/b10304/25405090/r30292337/
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AdamBertocci Title: Manager: Fan Films Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 12/22/04 8:06am Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	And it seems to me that the women presented in SW are presented as strong, capable role-models... Ohhh yes. Look at Leia or Padme compared to most women in action movies (this is especially true of Leia, as her flicks were made earlier in, perhaps, a somewhat less enlightened time.) Rick McCallum loves you! -----signature----- "Run Leia Run", "The Chopped-Off Hands of Star Wars", and the award-winning "Brooklyn Force". Check 'em out. http://www.runleiarun.com
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MatthewZ Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 12/22/04 8:27am Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	I say yes. I worked on the set of AOTC and Lucas was constantly like, "B!tch this" and "Wh0re that" You should have heard the guy. -----signature----- What I posted was true......from a certain point of view.
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DarthyMarkyMark Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 12/22/04 8:52am Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	This is interesting, because back in 1977 some people criticised ANH for being anti-woman in some way. I must say, I don't see it at all - Leia is a strong character, along with Obi-Wan the only "hero" who really seems in control of things. She's a powerful leader at just 19, she knows what she's doing - the boys can't even rescue her properly. Padme is a little different, but she's a fantastic leader, thoughtful, considerate, kind, yet unafraid to lead her people into battle as a last resort, and she is one of the most respected voices in the Senate. We also have Mon Mothma, who is the leader of the Rebel Alliance, as another strong female. Concerning the Forbidden Love issue, I don't think GL is making a comment on the "dangers" of loving women at all - the danger is of a Jedi, with so much power, becoming attached to things and becoming selfish - it could also be the other way round. If a female Jedi fell in love with a man, the same problems would be present. It just so happens that Anakin is our main character, the one destined to fall. It's not Padme's fault that he fell to the Dark Side - it's his own choices that are the problem. It's Anakin's fault that he is unable to control his emotions, it's his fault that he allows himself to get too attached to things, and that he becomes greedy. And the exhchange between Anakin and Obi-Wan is indeed: Anakin: I think he's a she. And I think she's a Changeling. Obi-Wan: In that case be extra careful. I always saw this as a comment on Changelings rather than women.
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Jedi_Master_Ryokono Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 12/22/04 10:32am Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	I can see where you're coming from, but I agree, it's a but of a stretch to call it anti-women. Like MarkyMark said, Leia was a powerful presence, in battle and in negotiations... I would say that the image of women in 1977 may be more exemplified by Leia in the original trilogy. I mean come on, we are talking the chick who kills Jabba the Hutt with her own hands! -----signature----- She was alone and still, gazing out to sea; and when she felt his presence and the worship of his eyes her eyes turned to him in quiet sufferance of his gaze, without shame or wantonness.
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Durwood Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 12/22/04 11:28am Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	Is George Lucas anti Women? No. -----signature----- "[STAR WARS fans] all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way." -George Lucas
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Darth-Seldon Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 12/22/04 12:24pm Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	Every woman with a speaking role in those films is a brave and strong woman. Shall we see? Shimi Skywalker: No one is stronger than this woman who does what is right for her son, even if it has terrible consequence in her own life. A woman of courage who has hope for her families future. No one could call her weak or evil. Padme Amidala: A woman strong enough to stand up against armies of the federation. A natural leader who is eloquent and logical on the senate floor. She has compassion for her work and on the true leaders of the Republic. Zam Wessel (bounty hunter): Defying the role of women by being a bounty hunter and chasing deadly Jedi on high risk missions. Hardly a stero-typical woman. Padme's mother and sister: Loving women who care about their family. Mon Mothma: A leader who encourages the troops to combat the Emperor. A rebel senator who stood up for what is right. Leia Organa: IF you can't figure out what a hero she is, then all my previous points were made in vain. A true hero and leader. Anti-Woman? Quite the opposite. Of all the Anti-Lucas comments I have heard, I never thought this one would come up. -Seldon -----signature----- Isaac Asimov was an innovative genius All posters are equal but some posters are more equal than others. JOE BIDEN 2012
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Psycho_Sith Registered: Aug '03	Date Posted: 12/22/04 1:35pm Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	No way. GL portrays very powerful, intelligent women in his films. -----signature----- Resident Rocker of the GFFA!
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Vadaah Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 12/22/04 2:03pm Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please? - Date Edited: 12/22/04 2:03pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Vadaah
	I think you are Darth Snook! Ah hah! Yes, you just want to make sure GL is so you can bask in your own anti-women movement here on the boards, don't you? Don't you??? -----signature----- PK's Loyal Servant and Left-Side Bodyguard blah
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Darth-Seldon Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 12/22/04 5:26pm Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	Further points, Obi-Wan is not saying women are dangerous, he is saying that changlings (those who can change physical experience) are especially dangerous. Lucas is not saying that love of women causes demise, he is saying that we all have flaws. He has said so many times that it is Anakin's inablity to allow his life to change which does him in. He hates the inevitable changes of life. So to counter them, he increases his power until he reaches a level where he can control the changes...the only thing is, once he reached this level, he became what he despised most. -Seldon -----signature----- Isaac Asimov was an innovative genius All posters are equal but some posters are more equal than others. JOE BIDEN 2012
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MatthewZ Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 12/23/04 9:59am Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	Isn't Mon Montha the top dog of the Rebel Alliance? -----signature----- What I posted was true......from a certain point of view.
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4LOM Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 12/23/04 9:59am Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	No way is Lucas anti-woman! His character of Princess Leia remains one of the strongest female action heroes of all time. Even modern adventure movies often reduce women to the roles of love interests and hostages. Princess Leia was captured by the bad guys in ANH, but the minute she is freed she takes charge. She criticizes the men for not planning ahead, she takes charge of the escape, she caps some fools. In ESB she's in charge of Echo Base, stands up to Han Solo, and caps some more fools. In ROTJ she frees Han, kills an intergalactic crime lord using nothing but a chain, helps lead a commando mission on an alien world, knocks a scout trooper out with a log upside the head, and she caps some more fools. Leia is TOUGH. Leia is SMART. Leia is BRAVE. No way Lucas is anti-woman, making a character like Leia!
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Emos-Edud Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 12/23/04 11:47am Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	Don't forget the many images of castration and vagina dentata that abound in the series. However, there are just as many examples of male villains and evil-associated phallic symbols to balance it all out. -----signature----- 1) Power couplings will be featured in Ep3 . 2) Palpatine is Sidious. His clone is not. 3) http://www.randi.org/jr/072503.html 4) Sifo-Dyas lives in Vader-style armor. Grievous, anyone? 5) Lego Clone Man Transformation $9.99
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--Skywalker-- Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 12/23/04 1:02pm Subject: RE: Is George Lucas anti Women - your opinion please?
	George Lucas is not anti-women, he made Padme, leia and all of the of Star Wars females strong characters. -----signature----- "What have I done?" "You're fulfilling Your destiny, Anakin"
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