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Topic:
The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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evenstarr
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
6/20 5:49am
Subject:
The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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Has anyone else noticed this....:)
You really see the linear progression.
There is some truth in the Sith POV, and you know where Vader is coming from in a more human way....as the reasons for solving the original problems get completely lost.
So was it the emperor who drove the good out of Vader almost entirely or did he just finish the job that the Jedi Council and Obi got wrong?
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
6/20 1:23pm
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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Um?
You're subject corresponding with your question somewhat confuses me.
It wasn't the Emporer who drove the good out of Anakin, and the council didn't really get it wrong. It's more of Anakin as a person- he is old enough to take responsibility for his actions. When he chose the life of a Jedi he knew he would have to sacrifice certain things and he failed to change to become a better Jedi. Although the Sith's POV is more 'human' a Jedi is to give up those characteristics once joining the order- atleast thats how the Jedi of the Old Republic handled it.
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JEDIGUNSHIP
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
6/20 3:12pm
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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Yeah, I'm a little confused as well. To be a Jedi, you have to give up frustration, fear and anger. For a Sith, these are the main sources of power. For them, using these techniques is perfectly fine, while the Jedi frown upon it.
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Blue and yellow make a green lightsaber. How do you get red out of blue?
Jedi Knight in the New Jedi Trials/ Commander of Phoenix Squadron in the Rebel Alliance
Host of the "100 Greatest Animated Cartoons" Countdown in the Amphitheatre
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GGrievous
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
6/21 7:17am
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
- Date Edited:
6/21 7:20am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
GGrievous
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JEDIGUNSHIP posted:
Yeah, I'm a little confused as well. To be a Jedi, you have to give up frustration, fear and anger. For a Sith, these are the main sources of power. For them, using these techniques is perfectly fine, while the Jedi frown upon it.
No, Jedi were taken at birth and were never emotional. They learned how to control it. Sith are the same, expect they are at many times angry and kill for their own will. Both Jedi and Sith want power but the Jedi should be equal since they are keepers of the peace. If we were talking about Anakin, he was very emotional since he never learned how to control it at a young age.
Sidious wanted control of the galaxy. He was the Dark Lord of the Sith along with his apprentice, Maul who brought the Sith out of hiding. He corrupted the queen of his home planet to give in and start a new chancellor election. The Trade Federation was told by Sidious to start the blockade so things can get going. This will eventually lead to the Clone Wars and Order 66. Sidious's main goal was to reorganize the Galactic Republic, which he controls to the 1st Galactic Empire. In which he has even more power and control because he is the emperor and he made of the new order and constitution.
It was a good thing many Republic senators broke off from the Empire and rebelled against it.
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"General Kenobi!....You are a bold one... Kill him!" - General Grievous, Ep 3
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GrandAdmiral_Frank
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
6/27 9:17pm
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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The council and Obi-Wan never got anything wrong. Anakin was lucky to be treated the way he was. They made an exemption for him to be trained at nine years old. At that point a youngling has three years left to be chosen by a Master or its into the Jedi Service Corps. Not only that but Anakin was already apprenticed to Obi-Wan. Furthermore he was knighted despite many of the council members who had their own misgivings.
Obi-Wan never failed. Anakin failed Obi-Wan by not respecting the teachings and wisdom that Obi-Wan provided. Plus if you count the EU Anakin confessed things about himself to both Nejaa Halycon and A'Shard Hett that he never even bothered telling Obi-Wan.
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JEDIGUNSHIP
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
6/27 9:27pm
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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I think that the discussion has to do wiht point of view. The Sith have their POV, and the Jedi have another. Whatever the Jedi think are right, the Sith think are wrong, and vicer versa. Any side in any conflict would have these same basic disagreements as the Jedi-Sith struggle.
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Blue and yellow make a green lightsaber. How do you get red out of blue?
Jedi Knight in the New Jedi Trials/ Commander of Phoenix Squadron in the Rebel Alliance
Host of the "100 Greatest Animated Cartoons" Countdown in the Amphitheatre
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GrandAdmiral_Frank
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
6/27 9:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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I love Palpatine's point of view line. Those are the types of things that make the PT worth it.
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evenstarr
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
6/28 5:32am
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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THE POV's of the Sith and the Jedi overlap each other alot, which is why it is understandable to see the linear progression for Anankin/Vader and more generally the Jedi to the Sith from the prequel trilogy to the original one.
IF Anakin was lucky to be treated the way he was, then how about Luke?
IN many ways, the prequel Jedi training/handling of Anakin bulldozed the road, and the Sith POV simply paved the road.
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GrandAdmiral_Frank
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
7/4 11:50pm
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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Luke was different he was the last hope. A burden was placed on him to be the Hero of the Galaxy. I'm sure that he could have turned away from that role any time but without a doubt the person he was would not let that happen. There was no burden on Anakin until he made things complicated for himself. If anything Obi-Wan had a burden which was training and guiding the Choosen One.
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the_immolated_one
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
7/5 12:58am
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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GrandAdmiral_Frank posted:
The council and Obi-Wan never got anything wrong.
They got everything wrong and that's why they failed and the only reason Luke prevailed is because he refused to listen them.
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DRush76
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
7/5 2:21am
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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No, Jedi were taken at birth and were never emotional. They learned how to control it. Sith are the same, expect they are at many times angry and kill for their own will. Both Jedi and Sith want power but the Jedi should be equal since they are keepers of the peace. If we were talking about Anakin, he was very emotional since he never learned how to control it at a young age.
I always got the impression that the Jedi were taught to suppress their emotions, not control it. I suspect that this was one of the causes of their downfall.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/5 4:26pm
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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The Jedi are all about self-control.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
7/10 11:18am
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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JEDIGUNSHIP posted:
I think that the discussion has to do wiht point of view. The Sith have their POV, and the Jedi have another. Whatever the Jedi think are right, the Sith think are wrong, and vicer versa. Any side in any conflict would have these same basic disagreements as the Jedi-Sith struggle.
They would but the difference is that we know which side is right and which isn't. The Jedi are right at their core, they just became a bit too rigid and were unable to see the true threat due to the Dark Side clouding everything and the fact that they placed too much trust in the office of Chancellor.
DRush76 posted:
No, Jedi were taken at birth and were never emotional. They learned how to control it. Sith are the same, expect they are at many times angry and kill for their own will. Both Jedi and Sith want power but the Jedi should be equal since they are keepers of the peace. If we were talking about Anakin, he was very emotional since he never learned how to control it at a young age.
I always got the impression that the Jedi were taught to suppress their emotions, not control it. I suspect that this was one of the causes of their downfall.
Those seem to be the main interpretations and while I tend towards the controlling view I can see why one would end up with the suppressive one.
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"Surely you must understand that the means are no less important than the ends." - Luke Skywalker
"Creativity is piercing the mundane to find the marvelous." - Bill Moyers
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Obironsolo
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
7/11 12:51am
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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evenstarr posted:
So was it the emperor who drove the good out of Vader almost entirely or did he just finish the job that the Jedi Council and Obi got wrong?
This is an interesting question because I haven't heard it asked before.
But I'm shocked that anyone would think Anakin would have turned to the dark side without Palpatine. Where is there any evidence in Anakin's personality that he was headed for evil prior to meeting Palpatine? And where is there any evidence that the Jedis made any errors in the training of Anakin, other than their overall trust in Palpatine?
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jedibri
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
7/13 3:39am
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
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Sure, that's a given that's what prequel's are all about. If it didn't set up the Empire than Lucas would be a bad story teller.
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Jesus says "Unless your attitude is that of a Child you will not enter Heaven."
That's why I'm glad he gave me Star Wars.
It always reminds me of my childhood.
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DarthApocalypse
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
7/13 7:37am
Subject:
RE: The Prequel Trilogy provides the Empires POV for the Classic Trilogy
- Date Edited:
7/13 7:39am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthApocalypse
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Obironsolo posted:
evenstarr posted:
So was it the emperor who drove the good out of Vader almost entirely or did he just finish the job that the Jedi Council and Obi got wrong?
This is an interesting question because I haven't heard it asked before.
But I'm shocked that anyone would think Anakin would have turned to the dark side without Palpatine. Where is there any evidence in Anakin's personality that he was headed for evil prior to meeting Palpatine? And where is there any evidence that the Jedis made any errors in the training of Anakin, other than their overall trust in Palpatine?
Anakin's turn was in the cards from the very beginning. Palpatine just accelerated it. Anakin was always going to love his mom and Padme and the Jedi Order was never going to allow those attachments to continue. Palpatine had nothing to do with the Tuskens killing Shmi, so Anakin would still explode and murder them driving him further down the Dark Path and making him paranoid about Padme dying. Anakin would still have nightmares about Padme dying and the Jedi would be unable to help him. So Anakin would have to go Dark in order to find answers. Anakin was born to be a Sith and he would have turned even if Palpatine didn't push him along.
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Don't take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive.
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