Fanclub ✶ The Knights of Darkness ✶ The Official Sith, Knights of Ren & Dark Side Fanclub ✶ v.3

I personally think the Clone Wars/Rebels portrayal of the character is better than he was in Episode I.

Maybe that's because he... actually had a... character there...

 

I actually liked the light characterization in Episode I. He didn't need to be a complex character, in fact I think it would have undermined the intimidation factor. He was mysterious, almost a force of nature.

 

I would rather my villains have character. Maul, in Episode I, did not have it. He barely had any lines as well (which might be just why people love the character so much).

I think the portrayal of Maul in Rebels and Clone Wars. He just had more motivation, and that made it more interesting to watch. Also, Sam Witwer, in my opinion, had a better voice than Ray Parke.

Also, why would him being a complex character "undermine the intimidation factor"? Vader is a complex character, even so in the original trilogy, and no one thinks that he's not intimidating.

 

He's intimidating in a different way than Vader, I think. Vader is scary, but there's a familiarity between he and the viewer that makes him more relatable.

Maul is a Michael Myers type of villain - a force of nature, single-minded and single-willed. It doesn't make for a great all-around character, but it makes for a great *villain*, IMO.

Don't misunderstand me to be implying that all villains should be that way - Kylo Ren is my favorite Star Wars villain of all time and he's very nearly a protagonist. I just think it works for Maul specifically within the context of the movie.

 

Maybe it would, but Maul was, or should have been, the main villain of the movie. Maul suffers from the same problem as Count Dooku did, not enough characterization. They don't have any motivation besides "kill all Jedi, they're evil".

I remember a certain someone telling me that this type of crap is "boring", when writing my own character for the Sith Trials. Why does it work for Maul, but not for me? A villain is a character. Not having one doesn't make them "more intimidating", no matter the situation.

I have been pondering why you think Maul is intimidating in Phantom Menace in the first place. If he has no character or motivation, how could one find him to be this way? And the only thing I can come up with is his look, and the fact he has a double-bladed lightsaber.

The Clone Wars/Rebels gave him more motivation: revenge on Obi-Wan. If you want to say that's too cliche, that's fine, but I'll take that over no good motivation at all.

Before you say anything, I don't think every single villain should be like this. Most should, but that's besides the point. Slasher villains (Michael Myers) aren't like that. But, this is Star Wars. Give your villains level 2 motivation/characterization at least! You're not writing a slasher movie. A villain with no character is just bland. It works the same way.

I can't stress enough, a movie villain (like Maul) is more intimidating when they have a character. And, while I'm here, the intimidation factor shouldn't be your number one priority when writing a villain.

 

As a roleplayer, you are the protagonist of your own story. Just because you're a Sith doesn't mean you're an antagonist. Maul is a pure antagonist - he only exists within the story as an opposing force. That's not to say he *doesnt* have deeper motivation or his own story, it's just simply not important to the movie we're watching.

He's intimidating because he's such an enigma. The first time the heroes encounter him he comes literally out of nowhere and almost kills Qui-Gon on the spot. Look at how exhausted he is when he gets back on the ship. Maul is very obviously a badass from the beginning, and what's terrifying about his lack of depth or relatability is that you can't reason with him.

 

I agree that Maul was cool from the beginning. But that's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I guess you like that he had no character what-so-****ing-ever (for some reason...), but I don't think like that. To me, the only thing Maul had going for him was his lightsaber and his look. When I see Maul in Episode I, I'm not terrified of him, I am instead watching the lightsaber duel, which is admittedly pretty ****ing sweet. But, hey, you are, so... god for you.

You say that his own personal motivation isn't even somewhat important important to the movie. I think it is, and I think it should be. Maul needs characterization, as he is a character. Maybe it isn't the most important part of the story, but it still matters.

On the topic of Maul, I think that killing him off was a huge mistake. There was SO much to improve on with Maul. I mean, instead of all of this really interesting stuff happening in The Clone Wars, we should have had that happen in Episode II. Then, we wouldn't need to set up another villain, give him proper motivation, etc. Maul had potential, but it was wasted.

 

The same can be said for Vader

 

Oh totally! Especially in the Vader comics where the only reason he is trying to "take" the empire is because Sidious was trying to replace him. Before this he was content with his position.
The only one who was a schemer by nature was dooku because he did try to take down Sidious on his own terms.

 

Also the only one Bane would actually like to take the mantle because he always had the thing about "taking the initiative" and not waiting idly by and not trying to take from the "weak"

 

While my point does not stand as well if we include Legends I was not(mostly because I forgot about the chair) because in Canon he tried to train two Apprentices, but when Ventress was found out he had to kill her.

 

Oh definitely, Sidious was great at finding people who would never overthrow him, Plaguise not so much.

 

From a Legends perspective, Tyranus made a poor Baneite. So many opportunities to take the upper hand, yet he did not, and I can only assume it was due to caution and hesitation. Case in point, Vos recovered the Holocron of Heresies for him, yet he did not pry the secret of essence transfer from it. Why not? Shameful ignorance of lore, or, to my mind, reluctant subservience causing him to pass the Holocron to Sidious, whence Sidious promptly learned the art in time to lure immortality-lusting Zeta Magnus to his allegiance?

He would have been more at home in the Pius Dea era. A speciesist, cautious authoritarian versus the sheer, flexible, wily pragmatism and multi-layered scheming of Sidious. Poor Tyranus had no chance, even if he was, arguably, better than Vader or Maul as a potential successor.

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Oh most definitely!

Also 17,000 posts!

 

I have to agree with this. I'm coming from a narrower perspective here, since the only Rebels episode I saw with Maul in it was the latest one and I never watched TCW. However, at least from a TPM standpoint, it was very obvious that what Maul had going for him was physical prowess. I'm not sure why they made it that way, as I think that Ray Park would have made a decent enough actor for the role. I find it entirely unnecessary that they edited out his voice as well, for the two lines of dialogue he had in the film. I always wondered if this was deliberate in making Maul's physical aspect the sole focus. Coming from the fact that, again, he had only two lines in the entire film, it's not hard to come to the conclusion that physical combat was his strong source. I'm not entirely complaining, since he's amazing to watch, but I do find it disappointing that they gave him no character. They wasted a huge opportunity there.

Ray Park didn't actually voice Maul in TPM His voice was dubbed over by Peter Serafinowicz.

I also have to agree, Kronos. I like my characters, heros and villains alike, to have history and backstory, even if that comes later. That never came for Maul in the films, sadly. To my understanding, they expanded upon it a bit in Rebels and TCW. I know that it was nice to see him have character and motivations and reasons for what he did in the last episode of Rebels. I think it's a shame they didn't start that in TPM.

 

And he had nightsisters, probably with some jedi training, as teachers. Tamith Kai, their leader and Brakiss second-in-command, is the amazon in front of the academy




B.t.w. why do people think there are no pictures of Brakiss in his Shadow academy robes?