Characters Master Dooku//Padawan Qui-Gon: Because it's all so dramatic.

Welcome to the the Master Dooku, Padawan Qui-Gon Thread... dangerously asking questions about the light and dark Master/Padawan team for the purpose of fanfiction!


While fics in this time period have increased a bit lately, this remains a vastly uncharted wilderness. Even since the release of Legacy of the Jedi, fics about the Qui-Gon and Dooku era have been rather sparse, save for a brave few venturing into this realm. It is perhaps one of the most interesting flashpoints in Star Wars history: both Qui-Gon and Dooku change the galaxy, but in different ways, one for good, and one for evil. And it's one of the biggest ironies of all, especially considering Dooku's ultimate change of side.

But what about before? What about the time when they were merely a boy and his Master, both darker shades of white?

 

Hiya Jess!!!! Here's my two republic credits worth....


Was Dooku a kind master to Qui-Gon or a colder, more distant one as is portrayed in LOTJ?


I picture Dooku as being firm and maybe semi cold but not overly harsh. I mean if he was too horrible he wouldn't have been a Jedi would he? I'm sure he had his warm moments too otherwise poor Qui-Gon would have had a very troubled childhood.



Did Qui-Gon keep in contact with Dooku after he became a Knight?


I'm not sure if he did or not. Obi-Wan didn't know Dooku before AOTC so that leads me to believe that he might have drifted from his master after they separated when he was knighted.


Did Dooku really quit the Jedi as a director indirect result of Qui-Gon's death?


Many theories on this. I think he was already probably on his way down that path. Maybe Qui-Gon's death was just the final breaking point and he couldn't be with the Jedi anymore after that. Too many painful reminders of his padawan.



WILL DOOKU TURN BACK TO THE LIGHT SIDE IN EPISODE 3 AS A PICTURE OF REDEMPTION THAT ANAKIN WILL LATER FOLLOW?????



Doubtful.... then again stranger things have happened.......

 

Ooh! Nice thread Jess!

OK the questions...


Was Dooku a kind master to Qui-Gon or a colder, more distant one as is portrayed in LOTJ?
He's way too evil in LOTJ! I think he was quite friendly really, and genuinely cared for his apprentice, but they was always a streak of cruelty in there somewhere....

Did Qui-Gon keep in contact with Dooku after he became a Knight?
I think he probably did...but didn't want Dooku to meet Obi....probably something to do with Xani? I dunno. Although that was probably a good idea seeing what happened.

Did Dooku really quit the Jedi as a direct or indirect result of Qui-Gon's death?
He did study the darkside when he was still a Jedi, didn't he? And he believed the Jedi were becoming corrupt...I think Qui's death was just the last straw for him. Although I do seriously wonder what Sidious told him to convice him it was the Jedi and not the Sith responsable for Qui's death...

and finally....
WILL DOOKU TURN BACK TO THE LIGHT SIDE IN EPISODE 3 AS A PICTURE OF REDEMPTION THAT ANAKIN WILL LATER FOLLOW?????
I want Anakin to be the only Sith who turns back.

 

Interesting questions.

Was Dooku a kind master to Qui-Gon or a colder, more distant one as is portrayed in LOTJ?

My views on Dooku and Qui-Gon's relationship was probably cemented, not by LOTJ, but by a couple of stories by Marnie (Coming home and Act of Kindness) on her website. Here's the URL (http://www.elfringham.dsl.pipex.com/stolenones.html) Her gift for describing Dooku as a Master both kind and cruel gave me chills and lots of ideas...

Did Qui-Gon keep in contact with Dooku after he became a Knight?

I believe that it was likely that he did, at least initially. But as Dooku was drawn further into the dark, Qui-Gon probably sought first to bring him back on track and, when that failed, to stay away from his influence. Hence, no contact with Obi-Wan.

Did Dooku really quit the Jedi as a direct or indirect result of Qui-Gon's death?

I think Qui-Gon's death was probably an excuse and he was already helping Palpatine's agenda by having access to the Temple. By the time Qui-Gon died, Dooku was likely to have finished what he was supposed to do and could escape all that lightside Jedi stuff!

and finally....
WILL DOOKU TURN BACK TO THE LIGHT SIDE IN EPISODE 3 AS A PICTURE OF REDEMPTION THAT ANAKIN WILL LATER FOLLOW?????

Sorry, Jess but you are the only one in the universe that would think that...LOL. No, I believe that Dooku will go down in the annals of the Jedi as a darkside force-using traitor. Well, the annals until they are destroyed by Palpatine and then there will be nothing left but dust and death. No spoilers here, just my interpretation!

 

Yay! Thank you so much for starting this. Great questions.

Was Dooku a kind master to Qui-Gon or a colder, more distant one as is portrayed in LOTJ?

Well, the way I'm working it out, and how I personally believe, Dooku was a good Master to Qui-gon, and was probably like a Father figure to him until some point where he started to go down hill. This probably occured when Qui-gon was either a senior Padawan or a knight, since Qui-gon doesn't show any major dark side tendences, which you would figure to be there if Dooku was as distant and darkish as he was in LOTJ, if he treated Qui-gon that way since he was a child. I think they had a rather good relationship, warm, affectionate, but it was lost during Dooku's slow fall.


Did Qui-Gon keep in contact with Dooku after he became a Knight?

I think he did. Probably at first to try to keep his Master on the beaten path, if the upper theory played out, but finally gave up after some time. Though he probably contiued to keep contact with him, probably even allowed Xanatos to communicate with him, by Obi-wan's time, Dooku might have been closer to the darkness by that time, and so Qui-gon didn't allow Obi-wan to commnicate with his grand master, though Qui-gon may have contiued to contact him.

Did Dooku really quit the Jedi as a direct or indirect result of Qui-Gon's death?

Probably both, if upper theorys worked out. Dooku would have lost belief in the Jedi with his fall, or simply by observing how the Jedi had begun to decay. Qui-gon's death would have destroyed what connections he may have held to the light, and also forced it openly that the Jedi are not what they once were. He could have seriously reliazed the failures of the Jedi then, and left, meeting up with Sidious later who offered power in place of weakness.

WILL DOOKU TURN BACK TO THE LIGHT SIDE IN EPISODE 3 AS A PICTURE OF REDEMPTION THAT ANAKIN WILL LATER FOLLOW?????

Much as I wish it, I doubt it. He may regret his ways a little, but redemption is too far from his grasp now. Besides, it would undermind Anakin's return, since it might make it seem easier. I feel this is where Epi 3 and ROTJ will contrast, Dooku will fall and die in darkness, Anakin will redeem himself at the last minute, and die in the light.

 

Hmmm, very interesting theorizes evreyone. I am more inclined to agree with the warmer Dooku too. Yeah, Qui-Gon would be a little creepier than he is if Dooku had been sithly to him. Now, I don't think they had the best of relationships either, I mean, not as close as Obi an Qui were. Dooku was probably pretty demanding. That might also explain why Qui-Gon was *so* warm and occasionaly looked over some of Xani's faults, if his own master was tougher on him.

*sighs* Yeah, Neon I think you are probably right about the Dooku redemption thing. *sighs again* I can still dream... Maybe the ghost of Qui somehow talks Dookus ghost into turning to the light side... okay, I'll stop.

Alright, so everyone, how does this play into your writing? And what do you think is the most accurate portrayal of Qui?

 

Well, as it was playing through the 'born to die' vignettes, and now into Through Hell's Gates, my theories play out as I explained them. Dooku and Qui-gon have an affectionate relationship in THG, though when things demand strict obedience, Dooku reigns down on Qui-gon's rebellious manor, and makes him follow orders. In the BTDs, expecially in Unchanged, Qui-gon notes the change in Dooku, stating he was not always like he was when Qui-gon began to realize he was changing, and in Numb, Dooku sees how his relationship with Qui-gon had slowly disolved because of his fall, though Qui-gon's loyality remains to him, up to his death.

As to a correct interpretation of Qui-gon, I don't think there is one. I don't agree with the 'buckethead' image, personally. Qui-gon can however be hard headed when he wants to be, but that comes from his rebellious streak. He runs differently then most Jedi, being connected to the living side more then the unifing side. This also probably allow him to pick up on emotions and such easier, making him a more compassionate being, but he has to shut that out to be able to function as a Jedi. So, in my own opinon, he has a lot of compassion, its just that he cannot function on all levels with his own emotions, since he feel others' so strongly. Loyality is the trait he holds in the greatest regard, when loyality is broken, it is very hard to fix, expecially with him. He has his own code, his own rules to the game, he only follows the Council when he feels it is right, when the Force tells him its right.

 

Hello everyone! I haven't been around for a while...got a p/t job, university applications to put through, fanfics to write, lightsabre skills to practise... LOL

Great thread, Jess, anyway! I'm gonna have my first self-imposed ramble on the JC Forums in ages now :

In my honest and true opinion, Dooku was a kind master to Qui-Gon. He was firm, but not cruel - I'm certain that Jinn would never have become the fine Jedi he did if his upbringing and training had been by a man with base intentions. I get the picture that they shared a similar sense of humour, and had a relationship not too unlike the one Jinn and Kenobi had - they would fall out, they would have their disaggreements, but they were never at extreme odds, as Obi and Anakin will no doubt one day be. To me, Dooku was a role model for Qui-Gon, and it was because of Dooku's free thinking and will power that Jinn became himself rather reckless, yet able to stand firmly on his own two feet, and become very sympathetic to all people and creatures around him. I think Jinn has a bit of a temper, like Dooku, though I reckon Dooku's temper would be much worse, and perhaps this is one fault of his Master that Jinn rectified within himself, if you know what I mean.

And onto the big question:

WILL DOOKU TURN BACK TO THE LIGHT SIDE IN EPISODE 3 AS A PICTURE OF REDEMPTION THAT ANAKIN WILL LATER FOLLOW?????
(i'm the only one in the whole universe who believes that theory, aren't I? )

Not necessarily - Dooku to me is an uncategorisable (that's not a word, I'm certain... ) character as far as the Dark or Light side goes. He's disillusioned, he's been led astray, and the Dark side is giving him the power and influence he needs to change the galaxy. How evil he exactly has become, I don't know - I feel that he truly was sorrowful at his former Padawan's death - he could just be a very good actor to the skeptical, however, but there's something about the Count that tells me he isn't whole-heartedly villainous. He has been trained his whole life as a Jedi - he knew nothing other until he reached (roughly) his 70th year in life, in which he abandoned the Order - how can a man who's been within an Order of Light for so long become suddenly startlingly cruel and malevolent? I just don't believe that. His change may have been greadual, of course, but I still don't think he can become competely heartless - he's had too much life experience for that.

There's something within Dooku that I'm sure could bring him back to the light - if Anakin can be brought back, why can't Dooku be an early mirror for this, as you say, Jess? He is an example, in Episode II, that Jedi can be turned to the Dark side - I don't see why this notion can't work in reverse in the next Episode, and also show that Jedi can be turned back again. I'm not saying that he definitely will return, but I reckon he could - either way, there's only going to be one fate for the Charismatic Separatist in Episode III, and we all know what that is...

On a side note, Dooku will be appearing in a future 'Ultimate Edition' of Phantom Menace - there could be some hint of how he feels about his former Padawan, Qui-Gon, there, which'll be something to put some of the questions surrounding their relationship aside. Or it could just incite more questions, who knows? ^_^

All-in-all, I'm for the kind-but-firm Dooku as a Jedi, with the typically reckless yet utterly charming Padawan. ^_^

 

*stands and applauds loudly*

YAY! Go jurious! My thoughts exactly, although yours were worded much more articulately. It's good to see you back on the boards. (updating Test of Faith anytime soon? )
I hadn't heard that stuff about the episode one special edition thing! Wow, thats really cool! I'm betting it will be at Qui-Gon's funeral.
Okay, so, as thus far, I think we are all in agreement that Dooku was a pretty good master to Qui, otherwise Qui-Gon would be a little less well-adjusted than he is, now wouldn't he? So new question to pose to everyone...
What do you think Qui-Gon's take on AOTC would have been? Does anyone think he really would have joined Dooku's cause? What if he had survived? (da-da-DUUUUU!)
And does anyone know any good AU fics where just that happens?

 

Ach! Qui-Gon's take on AotC would have been a strange one...it depends in what context, to be honest, too. I mean, if Qui-Gon was around to experience the era of AotC, would Dooku have gone to the Dark side at all...?

Anyway, considering that Dooku became Sidious's pawn...I mean, apprentice, and Qui-Gon was still around, I think that the Jedi Master would have torn allegiances. He would sympathise very much with his former tutor's ideals and possibly feel, too, that the Republic was rotting from within, yet something tells me that he would not wish to abandon himself to the secessionist movement. He seemed to be a loyal Jedi, even if he often did only what he thought was best, and not what the Council thought, but with Obi-Wan still around, there'd be no way that he'd want to appear a hypocrite, and leave the Order he'd trained Kenobi to trust and live within. He'd want to make a good example to his Padawan, and if it meant choosing between his 'father' and his 'son', I feel he'd go for the latter. He wouldn't be afraid to admit this to Dooku, I'm sure, but his son would have to come first.

I may come back with extra thoughts on this later, but that's as much as I've come up with now. And as for the Ultimate "Phantom" Edition, all I know is that Christopher Lee's been confirmed as appearing in the film - the announcement was made on his website - and it'll be released sometime after Episode III - I think Lucas is putting all the finishing touches to the saga now, so there should be an 'Ultimate Edition' of each film so far. I reckon it'll just be a brief shot or something of Dooku at Jinn's funeral, as you say, Jess, but it'll add a nice touch of continuity to the picture. I can't imagine they'll be any scenes of Dooku and Jinn together, as cool as that would have been (imagine Jinn discussing Anakin with Dooku at the Temple! That'd be awesome...), unless they begged Neeson back to do these extra scenes! Heh.

And I'm hoping to update "Test of Faith" in the next couple of weeks - I'll let you know when I do, if you like.

 

What am I, a thread killer? Where has everyone gone? *looks under carpet* It's gone real quiet round here...

On a side note, Merry Christmas and a happy New Year everyone!

 

I can't believe I'm finding this great thread just when I'm about to go into lurkmode!

First of all, great thread Charmisjess! I'm so glad I'm not the only one with a nascent Dooku fascination.

Wow, so many interesting theories.. and all basically the same - intelligent and anti-*Dooku-was-always-a-closet-Sith*.

Like dianethx, most of my Dooku (and Qui-Gon) perceptions are grounded in Marnie's fanfiction. IMO, she defines Dooku (and Qui-Gon) pretty much as completely as JediGaladriel defines Anakin/Vader.

In fact, I think my answer to these 3 questions:

Was Dooku a kind master to Qui-Gon or a colder, more distant one as is portrayed in LOTJ?
Did Qui-Gon keep in contact with Dooku after he became a Knight?
Did Dooku really quit the Jedi as a direct or indirect result of Qui-Gon's death?

can be best explained by her Coming Home and
Redemption stories.

Just for the record and to avoid repetition, I agree most with darth_jurious. I especially concur with the point made of Dooku being a role model for Qui-Gon. My only amendment is that imo Dooku/QG was much closer than QG/OB1. (Because - I think - Dooku was a Living Force Jedi like Qui-Gon and unlike OB1.) IMO Dooku and QG maintained a very warm relationship up until Qui-Gon's death. (in AotC, Dooku said to OB1: 'Qui-Gon always spoke very highly of you'. BTW did anyone notice that when he was taunting OB1 during their duel, he didn't use QG's praise of OB1 but Yoda's? It was as if he respected QG too much to use OB1's memory of him in that fashion.)

As for Dooku turning back, I also concur with darth_jurious's points on his 'redeemability'.
But I don't see it happening.
Not because Dooku doesn't have the *Light* potential (like I said, I don't buy the 'he-was-always-a-closet-Sith theory), but because Yoda said in Ep3 that no Sith had ever turned back to the Light Side: Vader's feat was unprecedented. I guess Dooku dies as Darth Tyrannus.
A fic about Dooku turning before his death would be great, won't it? Plot bunny anyone?

As for Qui-Gon's take on AotC: would he have joined Dooku? I have this really far-fetched theory about AU AotC if Qui-Gon had lived but I am truly, deeply not supposed to be on this side of the Internet (and who really wants to hear it anyway? )

*pops back into lurkdom*

 

Thanks for the great contirbution, leia_naberrie - you made some great points, and the fact that Dooku taunted Obi with echoes of Yoda and not Qui-Gon never struck me before, but I would understand that he'd hold Jinn too sacred than to blemish his memory with any insolence or disrespect; he honours the memory of his Padawan too much for that.

And, as regards:

A fic about Dooku turning before his death would be great, won't it? Plot bunny anyone

I'm actually writing a fic along those lines, called Eclipse, but it's a real extreme story, and Dooku falls the full way into darkness before he begins to come back. I haven't finished the story yet, but am getting to the point where Dooku will begin to turn back, and it's been a very interesting writing experience, though I don't think I'll ever write anything so twisted again in all my life. LOL.

 

Oooh, activity!
Welcome to the discussion leia_naberrie, noooo DON'T LURK!!! WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY!!!!

Oh, and good points! Yes, I've also read Marnie's stuff....wow. *Very* gifted author, there, it's a pity she's not posting as much these days. I actually wrote my fic Justification after a conversation Marnie and I had a while back about the whole 'Dooku-leaving-the-Jedi-Order-cos-the-senate's-all-corrupt...' issue. ANYWAY...
speaking of fics....
oooh, Jurious, Eclipse sounds pretty cool. ^_^ Might have to read it on my SNOW DAY! Are you ever going to finish Test of Faith? *whimpers*

Speaking of challenges and fanfics, I was talking to my good friend and beta Katharine about Dooku/Qui stuff(we're a some point working on a Qui/Dooku fic together, co-written, but it's coming slowly) and thought I'd throw this out at you all and see whatcha think...

There are a lot of Obi-Wan mourning for Qui-Gon ficcies, but very few if any of Dooku mourning... any ideas on that, current fics up or in progress, thoughts and ramblings?

And the ultimate question, for poor Jess, who is struggling with this in her own fics....

HOW DOES ONE WRITE DOOKU AND QUI-GON MUSH?!

 

DON'T LURK!!! WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY!!!!
You guys aren't helping me at all!

There are a lot of Obi-Wan mourning for Qui-Gon ficcies, but very few if any of Dooku mourning... any ideas on that, current fics up or in progress, thoughts and ramblings?

I've been toying with the idea of a Canon fic on Dooku's fall into darkness, based on the snippets of information we have from the films and using Marnie's stories as canon. It spans from the end of TPM to half-way between TPM and AotC. It's definitely going to have some QGJ mourning but it's going to be pretty dark and cold. Dooku is, to me, the kind of man that feels deeply but conceals it (which makes it worse). He was lots freeer with Qui-Gon but now his padawan is dead and he's Hell-bent on revenge. It's going to be a tricky fic so if anyone is going to do something like that, please let me know and put me out of my misery! I'm a lazy writer!

HOW DOES ONE WRITE DOOKU AND QUI-GON MUSH?!
Take your cue from Marnie.

 

I often find it harder to write certain fics when it has been so well-done by others. Marnie's work just clinched it for me so I don't even want to tread on her vision. Besides, Dooku was seemed always to be rather creepy and I don't like creepy. That being said, if I ever decide to write Padawan Jinn fics, I'd have to include Dooku in one (darn) or I could ignore "canon" - yes, go AU!!!

 

lol! leia_naberrie, I henceforth FORBID you from lurking! You have good comments to contribute!! You can't lurk!

Hmm, interesting ideas with the canon dooku and such. Yeah, I would definately agree, that's quite perfect characterization, that he feels deeply but conceals it. And yeah!!! He *is* creepy. But I think that's one of the things that makes him an attractive character to write, for me at least, even though I seldom write from a darkside point of view. Because he's complex, and very scary and deep, more of a challenge from a writing standpoint than say--Maul, who seems more the trained killer.

Oh, yeah, I agree dianethx... GO AU!!! lol. After reading Legacy of the Jedi, I'm beginning to think that the term "Dooku/Qui mush" is AU itself...

 

After reading Legacy of the Jedi, I'm beginning to think that the term "Dooku/Qui mush" is AU itself...

The beauty abt this boards is that I get to know information like that without going through the psychological and financial agony of experiencing it myself!

darth-jurious: I'm going to check out Eclipse as soon as I get myself a little RL breathing space. I'm an angst-aholic who's fallen off the wagon so it sounds perfect! Why aren't you posting on the boards, BTW?

*pops back into lurkmode for real this time!*

 

darth-jurious: I'm going to check out Eclipse as soon as I get myself a little RL breathing space. I'm an angst-aholic who's fallen off the wagon so it sounds perfect! Why aren't you posting on the boards, BTW?

leia_naberrie: Ermm... I post Test of Faith occasionally... but I can't post Eclipse here, as much as I'd love to have it discussed and torn to shreds in a forum environment ... (seriously) - it's way over the line, ratings-wise; it's my ultimate venting story. I started to write it over a year ago, when I was in a really foul mood, and just basically fed up with life, but it kinda grew from just a vicious little whim of a ficlet to an out-of-proportion story, with a seriously villainous Dooku falling all the way before coming back again, a Hell-bent Anakin, determined to kill him, and a tortured Padme caught in the centre of the tug-o'-war between these guys. I'm only half-way through it as it is, and it needs re-working, since my writing's improved a bit since I started... but hey, I'm rambling. Ask illuminatrix or someone about it... they'll tell you how twisted it is!

Oh yeah, and it's all AU - I live in an AU void in my fanfics. It makes everything so much more fun because you're not constrained by anything else that's been written! Yay!

Charmisjess: I'm thinking of updating Test of Faith soon! I like to have fun with that as well as having a good vent with my twisted Eclipse fic. ^_~

 

A lil OT, but I've finally begun to read "Legacy of the Jedi", though I've had the book for a few months now, and I can see already that Watson's Dooku is going to turn out a lot different to mine... But the EU and I don't really mix as a rule, anyway. ^_^ I did, however, have a go at drawing young Lorian and Dooku if anyone's interested... it's not brill, but there we are:

Betrayed

Shameless plug...

And Test of Faith will be updated soon - I'm halfway through the next chapter as it is!

*Ahem* Return to topic now!

 

*waves eagerly* Hi all! Jurious you MUST update I've been waiting on you to update that fic for ages!! I was ever so disappointed when you sent out that e-mail saying you were going to work on Eclipse more instead

two living Force Jedi should make for a perfect match between the two. Good points all. But I think Dooku is a little bit more intense with everything than Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon appears to be more relaxed and not as stiff and formal as Dooku. Picking up strays and such. Somehow I can't see Dooku ever picking up any strays or diving into the dirt with Jar jar....

 

But I think Dooku is a little bit more intense with everything than Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon appears to be more relaxed and not as stiff and formal as Dooku. Picking up strays and such. Somehow I can't see Dooku ever picking up any strays or diving into the dirt with Jar jar....

I think that might have something to do with the nature vs. nurture issue.
Qui-Gon was a Living Force Jedi by nature and was nurtured by another Living Force Jedi.
Dooku was a Living Force Jedi by nature and was nurtured by a Cosmic Force Jedi. Think Anakin and Obi-Wan when you think Dooku and Yoda. So, while Qui-Gon was with someone who understood him and gave him room to grow into his full potential, Dooku was with someone who was perpetually trying to correct him. While Qui-Gon had the freedom to develop his Living Force virtues, Dooku's training might have made him more inclined to suppress them, or even to develop the Living Force *vices*! Everything has its good and bad sides! And, don't forget Dooku was a charismatic negotiator and I think that personal appeal had a lot to do with the Living Force one-on-one instincts in him.

 

Hey guys.. what about a Qui-Gon/ Dooku character workshop.. with writing challenges. There's already one for Obi-Wan, why shouldn't our two favorite knights have their own? Just a thought. What do the rest of you guys think?

 

*jumps up-and-down* Anything Dooku-Qui sounds good to me! I've never been part of a char 'workshop' before... but I'm still all for it!

 

Yes, I would definitely like a character workshop for Dooku, Yan.

By the way, according to the interview of the actress that played Jocasta Nu in the Insider, Dooku and the Archivist had a thing? I always suspected that there was some connection, although I stopped short of romanticizing about their friendship. Hearing about that article was like a personal vindication. IMHO, Jocasta?s blasé disregard of the missing file in her Archive demands some looking into.

Anyway, I wrote a Dooku story, or actually a Jocasta/Dooku story. I posted it under the appropriate sock name of Countess.

Here is the link. Feel free to drop in:

Title: Of Like Mind
Summary: Series of snap-shots focused on the Jocasta/Yan relationship from Initiate-hood to the Clone Wars era.
Genre: Vignettes.