MS Update (02-May -> 25-Apr) Update Squad Mod

Chim, SFL, you haven't painted the chilling picture of what a world where n00bs weren't told to GTHOTB would look like. Or for that matter how many new KOTOR threads Games would have per day.

Until you paint the apocalyptic vision of a Games ph0rum where n00bs roam freely, unrestrained by common sense (or even basic spelling, puncuation or grammar), you'll never convince people of the just and righteous use of "GTHOTB" and variations thereof.

E_S

 

I'm confused.....are we supposed to strike, or something?

 

No, you're supposed to GTHOTB.





Sorry, ASG, I couldn't resist.

 

[Borat] High five! [/Borat]

ES

 

Not at all. Just trying to find out how the board rules apply here.

 

I've gotta say, the reams and reams of sarcasm that seems to have come to the defence of 'GTHO n00b' is very heartening indeed.

There should be no distinction between friendly flaming and genuine flaming.

 

I agree. GTHO n00b is a flame, period.

 

That's wonderful, but it's also a flame. I wouldn't be allowed to flame someone, or multiple new users, in the JCC simply because it's become an inside joke. And the JCC has its own 'culture' just as the Game Forum does.

That's also wonderful, but it's also a flame.

Very true, they can't stop people posting what they post, but they can edit and ban for violating the TOS. Flaming is against the TOS, so why exactly should the Games Forum be immune to the rule about friendly flaming? The rule doesn't exist so that the Games Froum can exist in a happy little exclusion zone all of its own, you know.

IMHO, it's got nothing to do with 'growing a thicker skin' or whatever others have been advocating, or that the Games Forum has it's own culture... because ya know, every forum has its own culture but they still have to have flames (friendly or otherwise) edited out.

 

Everton, how does that "friendly flaming" aspect not apply to the 'good natured' ribbing in JCC?

Aren't they really the same thing?

GTHO and variants thereof has been part of the Games forum for >5 years at least. Nobody has complained about it before. It's never been a truly malicious thing, nor do I believe people who rib each other in JC mean it intentionally.

What am I missing?

E_S

 

One can engage in 'good natured ribbing' without deploying a phase that is, surely is, a direct flame (no matter the intended 'context'). It's literal meaning is very precise indeed. If someone, in the JCC, crosses the line - starts using phrases so specific - in their 'good natured ribbing' they should be edited.

I think GTHO n00b should be outlawed, but I can see that it's been allowed to fester for a long long time now, and perhaps it would be hard to remove from the 'local lingo', I dunno. But then perhaps that's no excuse either. Heh.

 

How about when someone complains about "pwnt", arguing the notion of owning someone invokes slavery and thus is offensive and should be banned?

It may be somewhat extreme as an example, but the point is that it's a word that's been mostly acceptable in internet circles for some time, only to find itself being challenged as offensive.

Can I ask, Everton, have you been to Games and seen it in use?

E_S

 

Hey I didn't mean to that GTHO should be totally forbode. If the Moderators tell me that how its used now is incorrect for the most part and that theres a line you can't cross when you use it... I'm fine. It just seemed like a double standard to me at the time for what could be said and where.

 

Yes it's an extreme example. And tenuous too.

However, I'm not seeking to come across as all-knowing here, and will readily admit to never having spent any time in the Games Forum. So no, I can't claim to be right here necessarily. I'm only stating things as I see them from the standpoint of my own understanding of the disallowing of friendly flaming, and the fact that the Games Forum is very much a part of the JC.

 

I take your point, Everton, but I guess being a Games luker/irregular user over the years I get the "context" and intent of GTHO and that might be why I'm saying what I'm saying.

But I don't think it's any worse in spirit than alot of what gets said in YJCC.

I think it's probably worth nothing it's an idea, more than a literal interpretation (ie the sentiment behind it rather than the actual words per se), that games users are arguing for.

E_S

 

Its one of those JC grey area's. I mean, technically Everton is right and a flame is flame, whether its friendly or not. However, as its such an ingrained part of Games culture then it would be extremely hard to get rid of it, so in that context its OK. But that doesn't mean its appropriate for other forums and if I saw it directed at a new user in SSSW, personally, I would edit it.

 

I suppose then, that I find it disappointing it's been allowed in one particular forum for so long. The literal meaning of the phrase should have been enough to see it stricken.

 

However, what about the person who has just registered on the boards and goes over to the Games forum and sees GTHO n00b. How are they supposed to take it in "context"?

 

But everton, how often do people use "piss" to talk about urine?

It's vernacular English, like "owned" doesn't literally mean one belongs to another.

Jada, if it's never been an issue before, what would you conclude?

E_S

 

Here was my post on the subject from the MS:

Obviously, the first part of the quote is more important towards this discussion than the second...

 

It was brought up to me about 2 years ago by a new user and I told them to report it to a moderator. So it has been an issue before.

 

Literal meaning in comparison to the 'good natured ribbing' you were talking about in the JCC. GTHO N00b is a flame, and when you break up the acronym it only means one thing. The stuff that goes on in the JCC may, on occasion, be of a similar light-hearted spirit but it should never contain such a specific phrase. 'Piss' and 'owned' cannot be used, by themselves, as a flame - GTHO N00b most certainly can.

I can appreciate the Games Forum wanting to have it's own identity. That's a great thing, for sure, but I am uncomfortable for that identity to encompass flames as okay simply because they have become part of the vernacular.

 

Oh, ok. I've never seen it mentioned int he ~2yrs I've been a mod.

ES

 

So what is it about the Games Forum that makes this okay, and what is it about other forums that makes it not?

 

btw, was "GTHO" in use all this time? Because GTHOTB is actually more okay because it's a little more ridiculous. It's about a boat (made of Force, no less).

It's a little like "in before the lock". It's not allowed, but because it's not allowed everyone uses it sarcastically, which doesn't get edited

 

If someone tells someone that makes a redundant thread to GTHO n00b or something more aggressive, they are subject to moderator action. You will find it in use much more often in the Social thread. Indeed, a Google search of the site for 'GTHOTB', the by far the most common form of the phrase, brings up exclusively Social thread posts. A search for GTHO turns up the thread being discussed here and 2 other old posts.

It's never been mentioned as a problem to me, by anyone, with the exception of this thread.