Lit 10 Great Military Leaders by Jason Fry - From Star Wars Insider Special Edition 2013

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Zorkel567 Jedi Grand Master

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    If I remember right, it came out mid to late November, early December.
  2. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    We only have Pers Pradeux in EGtW; moreover, the parameters of your question didn't specify the source in question.

    As far as military versus political accomplishments: the Tarkin Doctrine is a political doctrine, and may be characterized as strategic at best (but not really though) and he still made the list.
  3. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Games Mod

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    Thanks. I'll check Titan's UK website.

    Edit - just ordered it. Now to see how long it takes to get here.
    Last edited by LAJ_FETT, Jan 14, 2013
  4. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    He, the Idea worked, which is why they even bothered to build a second one. ;)
  5. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    True, though Pers was apparently head of the renounciates, which kind of implies he did something important.Firmus Nantz is probably the biggest character on that list elevated from zero to hero frankly, but he seems to have emerged from EGtW with some buzz and I think Jason Fry just likes the guy.

    I'm sympathetic to the idea of high ranking women in the imperial machine (I wrote a whole novella with Priam as the protagonist), but the evidence is, for the moment, not really there. I think a stronger argument for a woman on that list could be made in support of a Sith Wars Era character, perhaps even Empress Teta herself, but with Revan the only one on the list perhaps we have to think of those wars as a period of limited strategic accomplishment.
  6. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    I was able to get my hands on a copy of the issue. Most of the information in it was covered in the EGTW, but there were some fun little snippets of new continuity.

    For example, the Per Praduex article mentioned that Prefsbelt IV continued was used as a naval academy by both the New Republic and Galactic Alliance as well. I for one love the historical continuity of this. Young naval officers from the Republic, Empire, NR, and GA all walked the academy's prestigious halls and visited Pradeux's crypt the night before graduation. "Father of the Navy" is a neat title indeed!

    For me personally, seeing Ackbar, Nantz, and Stazi all listed in the top ten was awesome. I wonder if the order is intentional or not. The article doesn't explicitly say that they are ranked from 1-10, but if they are you can see that I have no objections. :p

    --Adm. Nick
  7. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Yeah, but if Nantz was elevated from "zero to hero" in Warfare, then Pers Pradeux was created out of whole cloth. He literally didn't exist until the EGtW. I don't understand the argument you're making when we basically have a good number of "new" characters on this list, or characters that were one-liners and had histories created for them. Whether or not someone like Oxtroe gained her position through knowing people or through actual competence (I would suggest the latter; Dan and Abel originally intended to have her as the 11th new initiate to the Order of the Canted Circle prior to both Tigellinus and Thrawn, grand admirals both) isn't something that we can speculate upon simply based on the fact that there isn't much there for her.

    There isn't much there for female war leaders in general, which is not an argument to say that they don't exist -- it's just an argument that the EU hasn't focused on them for reasons best left to the Diversity thread.
  8. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

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    I thought Per Pradeux and Prefsbelt was a very nice addition to SW lore. Though I wonder who was the Father of the Navy for the first 14,000 years of the Republic:)

    At least there is a whole lot of room for changing this list in the future since there is potentially so much unexplored territory within the timeline
  9. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Well, I am sure that there are several throughout Republic history that could lay claim to that title. And modern commanders have similar titles too. Ackbar was known as "Father of the Alliance Navy", for example. But my hunch is that Admiral Pradeux was universally admired, hence why his title stuck so long.

    --Adm. Nick
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  10. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

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    Oh yeah especially after such a long and violent conflagration the Navy might want to start anew
  11. Cronal Force Ghost

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    Not surprised Tarkin is high on the list but personally I never associate him with being a great military leader. Would have rated Thrawn's accomplishments or Revans much higher than Tarkin but not surprised on arrangement. Kind of surprised though that Grevious did not feature on the list... sure, TCW Grevious's accomplishments aren't so great but prior to that point the EU portrayed him as being a vicious leader. Or is it because his victories are more attributed to Dooku's/Sidious's plannings?
  12. jasonfry VIP

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    Wow, this is a lot more discussion than I'd figured a little featurette would generate.

    IIRC, and I may not, the list isn't in order of importance.
  13. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Never underestimate Fleet Junkies and their interest in stuff like this. :p

    BTW- good call on not placing them in an "official" order. To do so would of generated probably 50 times the amount of discussion and you would of had alot of fanboys complaining that their "favorite" wasn't at the top. :-B

    --Adm. Nick
  14. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    He says that, but we all know Ackbar was meant to be #1. He'll be completely unstoppable once he learns what a trap is.
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  15. JediMasterKeno Force Ghost

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    No mention of Natasi Daala or even Baron Fel in that list for the new Star Wars insider?
  16. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Lord Fel was a great pilot, but just a wing leader -- if he made the list, Wedge Antilles (to be perfectly honest) would have to be on there first. I think Fel's a better pilot, but Antilles the better leader.

    And the less said of Admiral Dalliance, the better.
  17. Havac Former Moderator

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    Tarkin didn't see a lot of front-line combat after the Clone Wars, but he was said to be a military genius and had a huge impact on the Empire's tactical and strategic doctrine. I don't know that I'd put him in a top ten, but he's certainly up there among the galactic-historical military figures, and he was in the movies, and Insider cannot live on Ackbar alone.

    It gives me such pleasure to see Nantz continuing to be developed. Years and years I hoped that this one little reference to an important guy would get expanded on, knowing there was no way it was ever going to happen, and then it did and it was better than I had any right to expect. Awesome. Now to start flogging Admiral Jid'yda . . .

    And if you want to talk about female military figures, the Exile wouldn't be a bad place to start. And the original KOTOR gave us Admiral Dodonna.
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  18. Robimus Force Ghost

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    Well of course its not. No way Pellaeon would be tenth :p

    I'm wondering about General Grievous. No thanks to TCW of course but he would seem to have a very prolific career as a military commander. Both from the Clone Wars and his interstellar war with the Huk.
    Last edited by Robimus, Jan 15, 2013
  19. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

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    What is used to judge the 'best'?

    Most territory gained, victories won, longest survival, most successful regime or most adaptable?

    Either way it seems odd there are no generals (I think I may be wrong.)
  20. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    If we're assuming that Tarkin's place is largely for his contributions to grand imperial strategy, then there's actually no one from the Clone Wars on the list at all. I think that makes sense, too much of that conflict was so heavily manipulated that evaluating the record of any notable commander on either side becomes difficult at best. How many battles did Grievous lose/win because he screwed up versus because Sidious via Dooku undercut/aided him? I don't think there's any way to know.
  21. Cronal Force Ghost

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    Yeah, I mentioned the same thing above about Grievous and a possible reasoning for that which Mechalich mentions as well...

    ... which is an interesting point. I mean, the whole war was done so on puppet strings ultimately by Sidious and orchestrated by Dooku. So, does that mean Grevious actually WON his battles? Or were they won before the battles even started? As you said, there is just no way to know for sure about it. I think its easier to comment on his skills as a warrior in small time battles and one-to-one fights rather than as a great military leader...
  22. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    If you start the drive to get more info on Admiral Jid'yda, I will push to get more on Admiral Kir Vantai. Both are actually pretty interesting in that when they were first introduced, they were to the best of my knowledge the "first" Bothan and Duros flag officers we had ever seen in the NRDF. That always struck me as cool when I was younger, as every other NRDF flag officer was human or Mon Cal.

    Hopefully, we will learn more about both Jid'yda and Vantai at some point in the future!

    --Adm. Nick
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  23. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    If he gets Jid'yda and Nantz, and if you get Vantai, then I get Betl Oxtroe. Only fair.


    ...you hear that, Jason? Please write an "obscure admirals of the EU" article! [face_praying]
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  24. COMPNOR Force Ghost

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    Phooey on that obscure admiral stuff . . .

    What we need is an article on those lower ranking tactical geniuses whose innovations really rattled high command's cages. Three off the top of my head: Crix Madine, Zel Johans, and Tomax Bren. Such an article would also lend itself well to a short story in the vein of The Guns of Kelrodo-Ai.

    Hint hint, Mr. Fry: The first use of the vertical swoop attack in the Aturi Cluster.
    Last edited by COMPNOR, Jan 16, 2013
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  25. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Bah, don't get your Crackens in a twist, we can have room for both!