Lit 10 Great Military Leaders by Jason Fry - From Star Wars Insider Special Edition 2013

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. jSarek VIP

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    Sweet, if you guys have claimed Bren and Oxtroe, that means I only have to choose between Kursk Mal'ia and Crix Masst.
    Last edited by Ris_jSarek, Jan 20, 2013
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  2. fett 4 Force Ghost

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    Not sure why Ackbar is so highly rated. At Endor he walked right into a trap and it was Lando who discovered it. In fact if you watch RTJ, Lando pretty much coaxes Ackbar (who was going to cut and run) through the whole thing. Billingbri again was another trap he walked into. This guy is just fortunate in his work colleagues.

    Lando of course is not mentioned despite winning numerous fights as a general and leader.

    Anakin in the Clone Wars TV show is shown to be a skilled leader.While Vader would have won at Yavin if not for Han coming back and he did win at Hoth. His unit the 501st are now a legendary and legitimate name in Starwars.

    Veers was also pretty good on Hoth and knew his business.

    Thrawn of course is excellent.

    Dunno if it counts on a military level but Palpatine deserves a mention. The guy creates a whole galaxy wide civil war and ends up ruler of everything. Dont care what you say that's pretty impressive.
  3. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    The entire Alliance was tricked into the Battle of Endor, not just Ackbar. Same goes for Bilbringi. The Expanded Universe does a fantastic job showing Ackbar's tactical and strategic skills. I could go on and on highlighting his development of tactics, the battles he has won, and the way he built the Alliance Navy out of literally nothing. But, if you want to read the best synopsis of why Ackbar is justified to be at the top of any list, I point you to Jason Fry and Paul Urquart's fabulous profile on Ackbar in the Essential Guide to Warfare.

    No finer words have ever been written by Ackbar. Anywhere.

    --Adm. Nick
    Last edited by AdmiralNick22, Jan 20, 2013
  4. fett 4 Force Ghost

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    Yes that's true but its Lando who reacts to the changing situation, Its Lando who discovers the Shields are still up. Its Lando who first wonders why only the fighters are attacking and who then has to point out that by engaging the Star Destroyers point blank saves them from the Death Star. It's Lando who believes that Han just needs a bit more time to get the Shield down.
    Bluntly Ackbar does not do much its Lando who runs the battle.
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  5. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    The ROTJ novelization does a great job showing Ackbar's inner thoughts about the course of the battle and shows he directs the fleet's capital ships admirably during the battle. Lando correctly points out the idea to go toe to toe with the Star Destroyers, but it was Ackbar who directed his fleet in each individual engagement and it was Ackbar's training and organization that gave the fleet the skills and guts to prevail.

    --Adm. Nick
  6. GrandAdmiralJello Emperor: Community & Lit

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    Ackbar tends to have a habit of running into traps.... and SURVIVING them.


    That's sort of a useful skill in a military commander. Just ask Varus.
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  7. DarthCane Force Ghost

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    Let's also not forget that Ackbar's "prime directive" so to speak - as outlined by Mon Mothma herself in the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook - is to keep the fleet intact. Getting the hell outta Dodge is generally Plan A when a smart commander finds out he's walked into an ambush.

    Funnily enough, lately I've been participating in a strategy discussion on the Pacific War and going over some accounts of the two top US fleet commanders, Admirals William "Bull" Halsey and Raymond Spruance. Both commanded the same fleet units in the Central Pacific; Halsey would command the ships as Third Fleet while Spruance and his staff planned the next op, then the two would switch out and the force was redesignated Fifth Fleet. Spruance was the quiet, competent type nicknamed "the electric brain;" while he was criticized for letting major units of the Imperial Japanese Navy escape destruction at Midway and the Philippine Sea he accomplished his primary goals and in actuality permanently crippled Japanese naval aviation. Halsey on the other hand was hot-tempered and impulsive; his crews loved him but staff officers preferred working with Spruance and knowing what the plan was going to be more than five minutes ahead of time. That aggressiveness helped the US gain the upper hand in the Southwest Pacific Area in 1942-43, but later in the war Halsey made several key mistakes that cost men and equipment. The most famous of those was Leyte Gulf, where he went roaring hell-for-leather after what turned out to be a decoy force of enemy carriers while the Japanese battleships had only a few escort carriers and destroyers between them and the US invasion force.

    Short form, the gung-ho commanders who gamble with their forces are exciting to write about, but it's often the ones who know when to call it a day that win wars. It's why I tend to disagree with Jello's criticism of Pellaeon; it can be argued that he's the reason there is an Empire still around after the post-Dark Empire shambles.

    Overall an interesting list - love to see Nantz getting some more attention, and even if it isn't ranked Ackbar does deserve to be at the top of it. I do question Tarkin's placement; while possibly justified by his being one of the most influential commanders in the Empire I would rather have seen the slot go to someone with more skill and less ego. Just to space out the areas of history covered and add a little gender diversity, Empress Teta could have taken that spot - after all, she led the Republic forces in pantsing the Sith Empire and driving it into the backwaters of the galaxy for almost 1500 years. That has to rate something with this crowd.
    Last edited by DarthCane, Jan 20, 2013
  8. GrandAdmiralJello Emperor: Community & Lit

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    The problem with Pelly is that it wasn't his call to make, and moreover he tends to retreat excessively. He's not prudent, he's defeatist. And yeah there isn't an Empire after Empire's End: it's extinct. The New Republic becomes the successor state by default.


    re: Halsey, yeah, that's annoying. There would have been a gorgeous battleship duel during Leyte Gulf if he'd just steamed Missouri in the right direction, but noooooooo
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  9. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

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    Hyndis Raithal.

    The end.
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  10. GrandAdmiralJello Emperor: Community & Lit

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    I nominate that for article of the year. Nay, decade!

    Brevity is, after all, the soul of wit.
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Jan 20, 2013
  11. darthscott3457 Force Ghost

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    There always the Battle of Surigao Strait even though that a bit of a one sided battle in favor of the old girls from Pearl Harbor.

    Its a good point that many aggressive commanders in real history have gotten the spotlight over those who been more cautious and thoughtful.
  12. DarthCane Force Ghost

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    That or if Kurita hadn't gotten the jitters and assumed he was up against Halsey's main fleet units, he would have eventually run into the old Pearl Harbor BBs at Surigao Strait. The Yamato would have outclassed those, but overall the US probably would have had the edge in ships and firepower - 6 refitted WWI-era battleships with modern fire control systems, 4 heavy cruisers, 4 light cruisers, 28 destroyers and ~30 PT boats.

    Leading back to your critique of Pellaeon, sometimes the tactical picture isn't all that clear to the guys on the scene. At Endor I get the impression that after the DSII and Executor went down the Empire had something of the same experience the US did in the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal - "a barroom brawl with the lights shot out," with nobody knowing who was in command or what the overall situation was.
    Last edited by DarthCane, Jan 20, 2013
  13. fett 4 Force Ghost

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    Yes and No.

    Hannibal is remembered for his tactical victory Cannae but the guy who beat him strategically was Fabius and his Fabian strategy of avoiding battle to which Hannibal had no awnser too.

    For a Naval use Nelson is famous for his victories at the Nile and Trafalgar but he himself (and he was a very vain man) declared that he never considered himself the equal of Blake. I'll leave you guys to research who Blake was :)
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  14. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

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    Hannibal did a great job considering he had no backup whatsoever. Fabian on the other hand not so much.