1000 reasons to hate AOTC and the TPM

who likes lucas better than the prequels?

 

the whole REASON Valorum is being ousted is because he isnt paying anough attention to the invasion of Naboo...

...which the Senate doesn't believe in...

 

But the Senate *does* believe in the broader concern that Naboo raises as a microcosm of the growing conflicts surrounding the care of individual planets while trying to satisfy the needs of all. Part of why Palpatine's plans are so successful is because his views have a certain integrity to them, which he uses to prey upon the consciences of those willing to recognize them. The Senate *is* bogged down in beauacracy. There are numerous corrupt politicians among them. Backwater planets like Naboo are being shoved around by the economic power houses of the Federation because little consideration is given to them. The Chancellor was losing power because he was too involved in the politics of the beauracrats rather than following his gut instinct of what was right and wrong. The Republic, in many ways, was almost starting to collapse into anarchy. Why do you think Anakin is so unimpressed with democracy in AOTC? He's seeing the Republic at its worst.

Palpatine promised to get rid of this, and lured by the hope of a stronger, better government, everyone fell right into the trap.

 

As someone who prefers the OT, I concede that the plots of the PT are more complex, but that doesn't mean they're better. The OT's simple stories were far more entertaining to me. I found that the "one-liners" in the OT conveyed more depth, emotion and intelligence than anything in the PT.
One of the ROTS articles I read recently talks about how GL basically took the leash off Hayden, which confirms one of my main criticisms all along, that GL has stifled any real acting and dominated what you see onscreen. That's a weakness. And the fact that he brought in a dialogue coach confirms my other criticism, that the writing has sucked.

 

And Lucas will agree with you there. The deal is however that he wanted to draw a bigger contrast between who Anakin was as a Padawan and who he was as Knight. Hardly helps us get to know the characer better with him being a completely different person in each film, but at least the first two stories did their job showing us how Anakin doesn't like things to changes and wishes he were powerful enough to stop the change. Yep. Good stuff.

 

Those haters have far too much time on their hands.

 

Those haters have far too much time on their hands.

Yeah, because there's SO much wrong with those movies! I could write a book full of just my own gripes. But I doubt there's any money in it...

 

I could write a book on how much I hate whiney bashers also, no money in that either!

 

Let's stick to the movies.

 

Usually I'd be here bashing, but with ROTS on its way, I sat down yesterday and watched TPM, and today AOTC, and I must say....I enjoyed them.

Generally I prefer TPM to AOTC (mostly because I was 13 and in love with it), but this time around I enjoyed the latter.

The acting still bothers me, and Jake Lloyd makes me want to disown the PT, but I ignore what I don't like, and tune in only when I'm interested...kind of like being in a relationship.

 

Jake Lloyd is probably the only real problem I have with the PT and after reading all the early reviews of RotS decsribing its shocking change of tone and severity, even that move is starting to make sense ( having Anakin as a pre-teen ). I just wish they couldve gotten a better actor. The only problem I had with AotC was the acting of the guy who played Typho. He's like a porn movie reject, he's so bad. Apart from that very small gripe I consider AotC one of the better SW films so far - on par with ANH, and WAY better than RotJ.

 

I like TPM better than AOTC, Hayden and Natalie's performances ruined that film! The only reason I have problems with these two fims has been the acting, even TPM has bad acting in it too.

 

I'm reading through this now, and It's quite funny. I'm not going to take it seriously, or come up with arguments against his points. It's just good read. Plus TPM rocks so meh.

 

Yeah, it is quite funny. Some of the points are extremely nitpicky; others are dead-on. All are warranted to some degree. But how much each thing wrong with the SW movies rankles you is a matter of individual taste.

For me, the leaden script, Jake Lloyd's bad acting and 95% of everything Binksian outweighs the good in TPM. The mangled love story and shortchanged soundtrack of AOTC are my chief issues there. I really can't fathom how people can actually like either of these better than ESB, especially.

 

I'm really sick of this simplistic hierarchy of rating the movies. Which one's better...yadda yadda yadda. Shut up. They all have their worth in the saga. It just depends on what part of the story you want to watch. Which action are you in the mood for. Personally, I don't have a list. I love SW, period. Meaning, the STORY. I feel fortunate that I enjoy all the movies. It means I can really appreciate what Lucas has developed.

 

Well said, Juwebacca.

They all have their flaws, and their good points.

 

I'm really sick of this simplistic hierarchy of rating the movies. Which one's better...yadda yadda yadda. Shut up. They all have their worth in the saga. It just depends on what part of the story you want to watch. Which action are you in the mood for. Personally, I don't have a list. I love SW, period. Meaning, the STORY. I feel fortunate that I enjoy all the movies. It means I can really appreciate what Lucas has developed.

 

Ive been a member of that site for a few weeks now (a lurker a little longer) and man! its full of idiots. WARNING: dont sign up and try to argue, they dont listen, all they sill say is "lucas sucks, so do the prequals" then they tell you to leave so they can go back to having there intelligent conversations when all they evah talk about is "lucas suck and so do the prequals suck". they cant take it when someone proves them wrong.They said there must be something wrong with me for liking the PT. it mad me so mad so I continued to post! They claim they hate it yet all they do is talk about it. It seems they study every single scene and every single line and every small detail in the movie because they seem to know eveything when they talk about it! they say everything sucks to. Like when the new tv spots where being released for episode III they where saying the cg looks fake and it was all crap and everyone is a horrible actor and its bad cgi and etc... When deep down they must know some of the stuff kicks ass! They also release spoliers there and talk about the script (yes they have read it all and the critisee it all) they seem to look into everything about star wars (they must visit places like this or something). And then talk about how crap it is on there crap it is. Actully sometimes when I prove them wrong they will say something like "learn to spell" if I make a spelling mistake or something, they avoide my answer cause they know its true.

I could go on all day talking about how dumb those people are but I best be leaving, to the sith boards

 

I find this both annoying and amusing. Let me sum up my feelings like this:

I loved the first Matrix movie. Thought it was awsome. Not so much with the rest of them. Having said that, I have not signed up on any Matix fan sites. I didn't give myself a nifty name like neo_jaisn. I have not typed hours on end of criticism of the film. I have not watched it a thousand times frame by frame so that I could write a dissertation on the plotholes and inconsistencies of the Matrix. I simply don't care. People who do this with Star Wars or any other movie for that matter have eiher way too much time, or need to make themselves feel really important, or want to show how they somehow understand the vision of the writer better than the writer. IMHO, these are the same type of people who watch Jerry Springer to make their laughable lives seem better than someone even more pathetic.

peace,

jaisn

 

The difference is that these folks DO care a great deal about SW. That's why some are so passionately angry about the films. Haven't you heard of fans who, after being disappointed with TPM, said they saw it again to see if it really was that bad or if they were just overreacting? It's cause they expected to love it, and didn't.

So, just like folks after a bad breakup, they nitpick every flaw of their "ex," obsessing over how they ruined a beautiful relationship.

Dang, I just described myself. I don't care. I still like SW. But I can nitpick every frame that made these movies less than they should have been.

 

Most of his points do make sense. It's basically screenwriting 101. Read "Story" by Robert McKee.

The fact is the scripts for Ep1 and 2 have been average at best.

Lucas really needed a top notch screenwriter(s) and people who had the balls to tell him something sucks.

Star Wars is like sex. Even when it sucks, it's still good!

 

I haven't finished reading through the full list, but so far I haven't found a single one that really made all that much sense to me.
The only one so far worth commenting on is number 18.

The hyperdrive is leaking
The reason that they have to land on Tatooine is because "the hyperdrive is leaking." Leaking what? I've never really considered it but I suppose that a hyperdrive could contain something that would leak. But why put a hyperdrive in a part of the ship where it is susceptible to damage? If I were a ship designer I would think of putting the hyperdrive somewhere near the center of the ship so by the time it was damaged you would stand very little chance of survival anyway. As we are all well aware, they didn't seem to learn this lesson by the time Episodes IV-VI rolled around.

It's most definately true that this would make more sense from a tactical point of view, but I think what's being forgoten is that the Naboo are not a military society, and more importantly, the ship they are in is not a military vessel. The reason why the Hyperdrive and key systems are not in the center, where they would be more protected, is because it allows the ship to be more spacious. For a society which only has a small police force this is really not far fetched at all.

 

Those haters have far too much time on their hands.

Yeah, because there's SO much wrong with those movies! I could write a book full of just my own gripes. But I doubt there's any money in it...

People have written books full of their own gripes, I would recommend "Using the Force" by Brooker.
Or maybe I wouldnt, for nobody likes a whiner.

Bashers have too many strikes against them to take seriously. Too many have the self-coronated attitude of self-proclaimed judge, jury, and executioner as to what the rest of us are "supposed to" consider a flaw. And if we dont agree with them on absolutely every single point then we are obviously bribed lucas apologists. That attitude wins them few friends or converts to be sure. Bashers exist mainly to make absolutely sure that everyone knows their point of view and that everyone knows that God made a mistake. It should have been THEM, not Lucas, who were to be gifted with the SW knoweldge. Had THEY been given the SW mantle, they would have filled the prequels with "good" stuff such as kung fu and Force choking and bare breasts and lightsaber Wolverine Claws and any number of a hundred more dumb derivative ideas I have already heard.

I really dont think bashers are all that smart.
I question the books they have read (tv guide doesnt count), their appreciation for story structure, their general ego, and their entire list of skewed priorities that would sacrifice set-up vs pay-off for a cheap Vader executution. They have LOUSY priorities, and rarely if ever give a convincing case to even BEGIN to explain why they are smarter than Lucas, or are to be trusted more than he is.

Listen to the Lucas DVD commentaries and you hear him pull literary allusions and classic myth motiff,

Listen to bashers and the say TPM "didnt have enough kung fu."
My own personal decision of who is the sharpest knife in the drawer is not a difficult one.

 

1 Single Way to be a Dork

1. Spend a great deal of time compiling 1000 Reasons to hate Star Wars; and then show it to others.

 

I don't dislike the prequels at all, granted they're not as good as the original trilogy in my book, but I do find them very enjoyable and entertaining films. TPM is a lot of fun although Jar Jar does get in the way a lot and the whole thing seems sort of detached from the bigger picture, sort of like a drawn out two hour long prologue. AOTC is imo a much better movie with some great action scenes and a tone that seems more consistent with the rest of the saga. Personally I didn't even think the romance scenes were that bad, although they seemed to show the beginning of a relationship rather than two people who are "truly deeply" in love. It was almost as if padme and anakin were flirting, especially in the picnic scene and the "aggressive negotiations" line in the arena.

That's my opinion. I have no problem with other people expressing their's so no problem with this site. However, a lot of the members do seem to be "elitists" from what I've read. You know, people who seem to believe that I'm some idiot or apologist and they're the real intellectuals who can see the prequel trilogy for what it really is. If you don't know what I mean there's a thread somewhere on the AOTC board where some guy basically assumes that everyone who claims to like AOTC is pretending. Why? Because he didn't like it, and his opinion is right of course. That's what bothers me, not people having an opinion, but people assuming they are holier than thou because of it.