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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Iron Fist!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by beccatoria, Nov 1, 2010.

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  1. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Hey dudes! This month we're discussing X-Wing: Iron Fist by Aaron Allston. Here's a link to the TF.n Staff Reviews. And here are some discussion points! Per usual I'll jump in along the way:

    - Okay, let's start with some broader points about the novel and plot as a whole. Last time we were talking about how it seemed the book took a while to find its rhythm while the first section seemed to be very consciously imitating Stackpole's formula for Rogue Squadron. Do you think this novel finds its feet faster? Generally do you feel the novel improves on the last one and continues to show the series itself finding its feet? Was the story what you were expecting given the last novel, and is that a good or bad thing?

    - This book introduces three new squad members - Dia Passik, Shalla Nelprin and Lara Notsil/Gara Petothel - and they get a lot of the storylines, while a lot of the cast members who were focused on last time take a more backseat role. What are your thoughts on that decision? Does it provide variety and keep things fresh/keep a sense of turnover in the squad or does it stop us from bonding quite so closely with the characters? And probably more importantly, what did you think of those storylines?

    - OH MY GOD TON PHANAN.

    - Zsinj! After having heard about him for a long time or had him in smaller roles, we finally get to spend an actual novel with him as the primary villain. How did he measure up for you guys? Where along the Awesome Villain Scale does he currently fall?

    And, take it away! :D

    Next month we will be discussing X-Wing: Solo Command by Aaron Allston!
     
  2. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004

    I'm not finished yet, so I'll do a proper post later.

    But I'm getting to this part now and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
     
  3. JediAlly

    JediAlly Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2000
    The plotline flowed smoothly from Wraith Squadron into this novel. So with Wraith Squadron setting the board, this novel was able to "find its feet" faster. We had a general notion as to what to expect from this novel, but we wouldn't know the specifics until we began reading the story.


    First off, Gara Petothel was introduced in the previous novel as the orchestrator of Talon Squadron's destruction. Secondly, another Wraith made his debut - Castin Donn. Most of the Wraiths in the previous novels were placed in the backseat with several exceptions. I'm okay with that because for some of them, specifically Kell and Hohass, they got their inner turmoils settled. Jesmin, Falynn, and Eurssk (sp?) got killed, but only Jesmin and to an extent Falynn managed to do the same. As for Tyria, she eventually gets her problems settled when Face and Kell conspired with Gara/Lara to expose and arrest Colonel Repness. With his arrest, the shadow that was following Tyria dissipated. Face also gets over his own self-guilt for helping the Imperial propaganda machine, thanks to Dia and Phanan. I'll get to Myn and Piggy in the next novel.

    Dia - here we have someone who was as troubled as Kell was. She tried to be the hard, stern fighter and killer to keep away the pain, but it got to the point where she suffered an emotional breakdown. Face was able to help her get through that and become emotionally balanced.

    Shalla - She's the only one amongst the Wraiths who was unburdened with personal demons. She joined up in order to continue her duty, which was drilled into her by her father. And I loved Kell's reaction when he learned her name and her association with his previous martial arts instructor.

    Castin - At first, I'm left wondering why he's with the NR in the first place. With his xenophobia, he'd fit in well on an Imperial world. He also came off cocky and so certain his plans would not only work, but they were the only ones that would work. I can see some similarities between him and Anakin Skywalker and Palpatine. His death really didn't have an impact on me.

    Gara/Lara - Here we have an Imperial spy trying to infiltrate the NR again, just like Erisi did in the first three X-Wing novels. The problem is that something went wrong somewhere. At first, I thought it was something along the lines of Soontir Fel and Maarek Stele from the TIE fighter game. All three were loyal to the Empire, yet all three had a sense of honor that resulted in them being disgusted with some things about the Empire. Now in Soontir's case, it became somewhat personal when he rebuffed Isard's advances, so he left in order to save himself, his wife, and his family. Even though Isard caught him, Thrawn came to his rescue by requesting Fel's presence. In Maarek Stele's case, he had lost his faith in the Empire, but when he joined Soontir, Soontir revitalized Maarek's loyalties to the strengths of the Empire. The same strengths Mara admired and admitted in
     
  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    It has been a long time since I read Iron Fist....

    BUT...

    I can still recall my response to the final battle - awe. Remember that the Bacta War had had a massive, drag-down duel with an SSD, but didn't blow it up! In Iron Fist we got proper fleet engagements for the first time in the EU and watched Han Solo really screw up Zsinj's plans by blowing the crap out of Reaper's Kiss - and there was a real sense of scale and weight to the battle.

    Oh and yeah: Phanan, there really are no words for that are there?
     
  5. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    "I was just imagining what a sad galaxy this would be without my superior intellect and general state of wonderfulness."

    God I love this book.

    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091020172453/starwars/images/f/f3/DeathofTonPhananPencils.jpg]
    One of the twenty most memorable moments in the EU? You damn well better believe it.

    And that's all I have time to say at the moment.
     
  6. The_Forgotten_Jedi

    The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2010
    Phanan has the third best death in the EU. (1. Ganner 2. Anakin Solo)

    Castin Donn... I agree with wondering why he was in the Rebellion. I like the fact that it is still ambiguous on if he was alive or not when Dia shot him.

    I love the begining, with them being in the bar and attacked by the Imperial assination unit. The way Wedge figures out the MP are fake, and Phanan killing the leader with a scapal, and his declaration he could kill someone with any of his medical supplies is excellent. Lara's gradual realization that she is on the wrong side is one of my favorite storylines of the Wraith novels. Her determination and acceptance of what her eventual fate will be soldifies her as one of favorite characters.

    Kell carrying over the lessons he had learned from the previous book (Huh, character development carrying over from book to book. What a radical concept!) and accepting Face stepping up into the leadership postion was a good move for the character, allowing Face to become the main uhh... "face" :p of the squad and deal with his issues, since Kell had mostly gotten over his.

    Runt throwing a party and developing a sense of humor... [face_laugh]

    Arron Allston cemented his place as one of the greatest SW writers with this book.
     
  7. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Yes - I'm not usually the type to get teary when reading and can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of times it's happened but, um, this might be the first SW book to make me do so. I was really surprised how sad it was given I wasn't horribly attached to Phanan to begin with.

    Ally - It's interesting what you say about Castin. I have to agree - I think his death was less effective in terms of my feelings of loss for him - I never really warmed to him. But you correctly note that I left him out of the new recruits section and I think my lapse was pretty much due to the fact I kind of clock him as an event in Dia's storyline, and in those terms I think it works really well. In terms of a shattering event for her, I think it was really pretty amazing, because, like Face, at that moment, I felt relief. I really thought she had a plan.

    As to Castin himself, I do think it was a good decision to make him as flawed as he was and...not have him conquer those fears. The Wraiths are a squadron of misfits, and characters like Castin help remind us that not all damaged people will have miraculous cathartic recoveries. In that way, he's really quite tragic. But yes, arrogant and unlikable also.

    I also definitely agree that it's nice to see some real development for new characters and for Wraiths who didn't get so much last novel. I was honestly expecting to see lots more Kell Tainer because he seemed very much a protagonist in the last novel, but while we still get him around, I was pleasantly surprised that he gets to enjoy his positive character development from the previous novel, and instead we get a different focus.

    I'm always glad when people are around to appreciate the combat scenes because I always feel kind of...like I Fail That. I tried! I really did! I was aware, during this section, that there was Awesome Space Stuff Going Down, and...well, okay, I confess I had a moment of "Oooh, it gets to EXPLODE this time!" when the Razor's Kiss finally did go kablooey so perhaps there's hope for me yet?

    I really did sit for about five minutes trying to formulate something sensible before deciding that horrified wailing was the only way to go.

    Had I read this book when I compiled my Top 20 EU Books ages ago (at the time, Starfighters of Adumar was the only X-Wing novel I was familiar with), I think this book might well have been in it, based on this moment alone. <\/3 <-- that is my broken heart.

    I can get behind that ranking.

    Yay, I'm glad you mentioned this because it gives me a segue into something I wanted to say about my own reaction to it. I was really interested when she showed up because I thought perhaps we were going to get either an Erisi storyline from the perspective of the spy and/or a complex villain along the lines of Loor. The truth was both and neither.

    Initially I was actually somewhat disappointed that she saw the error of her ways so quickly. It seemed too easy that she spent a few days with the Rebellion and it just warmed the cockles of he
     
  8. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004

    I don't really remember much of my reaction when I first read Iron Fist, but I remember being really surprised, but now that I'm rereading it, I saw all the foreshadowing and that made his death (well, imminent death, he just got shot down where I'm at) even sadder. Especially considering his last conversation with Face.

    I always found Face humorous - how can you not - but this reread is totally making me become a Face fangirl. And I think that Ton's death was so great not just because of the impact that it had on the reader--which was to cry buckets--but also because of the impact that it had on Face. And it didn't just make Face sad and then that was that; it really changed him, which is so very important for character deaths. And this was one of the only character deaths to really do that well in the EU.
     
  9. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    NO.

    Trust me. Trust me. You do not want this spoiled. You do not. We can save it for Solo Command.

    Anyway, scabrous pirates to you this morning.

    The Wraith books are, hands down, some of the best Star Wars books of all time. Arguably my most-loved Star Wars books ever. I don't even know where to start.

    So, with becca's questions: it's not even a question of finding its feet. Wraith Squadron landed firmly on its feet, and this is continuing the series excellently. It takes the duplicity and knack for undercover missions and bizarre improvisation that we saw in WS and develops it into a fully-fledged scheme to go after Zsinj himself. And what a scheme. The pirate thing, with the hilarious Lieutenant Kettch joke running through it, is great, and the series of commando missions are just knockout action sequences.

    As for the new characters, this is one of the things about Wraith Squadron that I love. Allston is not afraid to kill off tremendous characters, characters with series-carrying potential like Falynn and Phanan, but he's able to replace them with characters who themselves bring something new to the table, and as such we're always integrating new people into the squadron. And that, too, helps us see new facets of old characters. Wedge, after being the inscrutable leader in RS, basically was just one of the guys with all his buddies in the rest of the Rogue Squadron books. The Wraith books, on the other hand, have a very strong focus on Wedge as a leader, as a man who is responsible for others, who must form and shape young beings, who cannot simply be one of the boys.

    Wedge: "I'm leading children, and I'm getting them killed."
    Janson: "That's true."
    Wedge: "What did you say?"
    Janson: "It's true. Wedge, you asked for misfits. You had to have known that even with the ones who made the grade, they were going to take losses that were heavier than in a normal unit. So many of them are dragging around these weights of emotional problems. It makes it tougher for them to hop in the right direction at the right time."
    Wedge: "Well . . . maybe."
    Janson: "Even with that, as a group they're doing better than they ever had a right to. Some of them are fit to eat with real people. Even to fly with other units. That wasn't the case when you founded the Wraiths."

    Even with all the humor, these are profoundly serious and deep books that take fascinating looks at these characters as real people with motivations and stresses and flaws. Wedge's leadership, and his ability to switch from friendly joker to deadly serious commander from whose mouth flames will shoot and burn Face and Ton head to foot is just tremendous. There is just nothing like Allston's writing here.

    To go back to the new characters, I love that Allston has a turnover dynamic not only in his cast, but in his focus on his cast. There's a tremendous, just narratively tremendous, bait and switch as Kell and his cast (Tyria, Runt) recede into the background somewhat and new characters take center stage while Face and Phanan move forward from supporting cast in WS to stars here. That's part of the reason why Wraith Squadron is so well developed; we've spent an entire book developing Kell and Tyria and Runt, and to a lesser extent Face and Phanan and Piggy and Donos and everyone else. So with Kell and Tyria and Runt pretty much fully developed, and their major narrative arcs wrapped up, they fade back into being supporting characters who can still feel like main characters because, despite their decreased narrative emphasis, we know them and love them and have their full story and still feel that they're main characters. Kell doesn't need more story; he just needs to keep being there and being reasonably prominent.

    Plus there's just this incredible bait and switch (yet also an entirely consistent narrative arc for both characters) in which Kell, the big, buff, handsome, skilled pilot that Wedge was looking at as potential squadro
     
  10. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Not sure I ever got around to commenting on Wraith Squadron, but Iron Fist was more memorable for me, as this is really when things hit their stride. I'm not sure I still have a copy lying around, but I read through a copy of this book a lot years ago, so a lot still lingers.

    Ton Phanan... oh, poor Ton, probably one of the best deaths in the EU, not as a blaze of glory, but simply for his friendship with Face, and how much Face tried to save him, with Ton saving Face in turn (by telling Face to get over his guilt), and then Face moving on.

    Originally Wedge Antille pitched Wraith as using cast-offs, misfits and the generally crazy to assemble a vibroblade squadron for "free", but after taking out that Star Destroyer last book, their new reputation has already gobbled up their old reputation before it could spread around. Dia puts up a strong front, Shalla's just strong, and Castin has issues.

    Hm, Castin. Well, he was pretty much a jerk, and it was his own fault he died, since he sneaked along on Face's mission, and could've gotten them all killed, ignoring Wedge's orders. Although I don't think ethics and xenophobia are necessarily exclusive. I think he was from Coruscant, which I think the book mentioned might have some xenophobia, so he could object to the Empire but still be xenophobic- not like discrimination against non-humans was the Empire's only crime. He was killed, but Wedge can't save them all, he's not perfect either.

    Zsinj takes the villainous spotlight here, him and Melvar, and while both are somewhat theatrical, they're also both quite competent. They're not as crazy, genocidal or outright mean as someone like Isard, but they're definitely ambitious. Not to mention I like the main plot, which basically comes down to one question- what's better than one Super Star Destroyer? Two Super Star Destroyers!

    The Wraiths are settling in as a squadron more now, with the original Wraiths sorta settling into the background as most of them have either dealt with their issues or are dead. Kell had a lot of the spotlight in the first book because of his issues, but now he's mostly a background character. Face on the other hand, really comes into his own, not just with Ton's death, but also in terms of maturity. Not just leading the "Hawkbat pirates", but he also accurately predicts what Zsinj is up to, stealing Kuat's next big ship, months in advance, as well as wondering if Isard is alive or not. Although I have no idea if Stackpole's final X-wing book was in the works or not at that point, or Face just was speculating, based on the lack of a body, and even in the original book, no one ever actually saw Isard get on board that ship, so you can never be quite sure. And also it gives Wedge the respect he deserves as he figures out pretty quickly that despite how it looks like he's raiding Coruscant at first, he's actually raiding Kuat.

    Oh yeah, what started out as a joke in the last book takes on a life of its as we now have Lieutenant Kettech almost wandering at will around Hawkbat base. Yub yub Commander! Ah, that was hilarious.

    Although one of the best aspects of these books is seeing Han Solo in command. He prefers to just be captain of the Falcon, but he did graduate valedictorian of his year of the Imperial academy, and that was the same year as Baron Fel too. He doesn't like being a fleet commander, but he's more than capable, and the final fleet battle is quite memorable, with how it basically comes down to Mon Remonda taking on two Super Star Destroyers, then concludes with Razor's Kiss blowing up.

    Gara/Lara's plotline is quite interesting too. Its not like its that original (infiltrator going native, as it were), although its certainly written well here. At first she helped the crew of the Implacable to live, rather than just have them die to cover Trigit's escape. Then she's conveniently recruited, but ends up really getting into exposing the corrupt colonel. Its not like its her first undercover intelligence assignment, although this one is a lot more informal, and she makes for one
     
  11. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Okay, so I read it last night before bed, and even with all the discussion, even knowing for over ten years since I first read the books what was going to happen...I still welled up and cried.

    It's such a different death because Ton doesn't got out in a blaze of glory. He doesn't get killed by a falling moon or become one with the Force while fighting the Yuuzhan Vong or get bitch-stabbed while trying to kill your nephew-turned-Sith Lord. He dies after being shot down, as most pilots in the GFFA do. He doesn't accomplish something memorable for the mission; he doesn't save anyone's life; he's just a pilot who is shot down.

    EXCEPT HE'S NOT. Allston takes such a normal, everyday occurrence in war and makes it so much more than that. After reading this passage last night, my mind might be changed that THIS is the best death in the EU. I would say that Ganner's death is a greater moment, but Ton's death just resonates with me so much.

    Phanan's chest did not rise or fall. But his organic eye was still open, directed upward, and his expression -- for once lacking pain, lacking the shields of sarcasm or manufactured self-appreciation -- was that of a child wondering at the glittering beauty of the stars.

    At last, in death, Ton finally finds peace.

    I really don't have much time here, and I'm struggling to find some way to sum up what I need to say. I guess it boils down to this:

    Thanks for being my friend. I needed one, and you were it.

    Ton Phanan

    Pilot, Wit, and Superior Intellect

    Oh, yes -- don't let my glass prowlers starve. They're cute little insects. Cuteness should be preserved.


    And Face does, too.


    Excuse me, I have something in my eye.
     
  12. Gomez_Addams

    Gomez_Addams Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2009
    I love this book I love this book I love this book.

    I'm going to reread it today, so I'll have more in-depth analysis later, but despite not having read this in years (it was part of my introduction to the EU, along with TTT), a lot of scenes have stayed fresh in my mind.

    Castin Donn's death, which really took me by surprise. Zsinj, one of the most enjoyable Star Wars villain's I've had the pleasure of reading. Lt Kettch.

    And, of course, Phannan's death. Yeah, I cried. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

    I love this book.
     
  13. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    People are glossing over the death of Castin Donn. He managed to overcome his prejudice at the very end, he frees the brainwashed Talz, at the cost of his own life. It's also because of his efforts that the Razor's Kiss is destroyed, and Zsinj's plot foiled. People consider Ton Phanan's death to be tragic, which it is, but they overlook the actions of Castin Donn, which are incredibly brave, and are responsible for the Wraith's victory at the end. On the other hand, Donn's actions almost doomed the entire team, had he been discovered, the Hawk-Bat ruse would be lain bare, and Zsinj's plot would have gone ahead, with the 4 Wraith's on Iron Fist being executed. Still, no one can deny that Castin Donn was a brave man, who managed to overcome his prejudice, and helped stop an Imperial monster, which was exactly what Castin Donn wanted to do.
     
  14. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Say Becc, if you want a way to get your head around the sheer awesomeness of the good guys blowing up a Super Star Destroyer then try this:

    Remember that scene in ESB?

    The one preceded by the line "It's a sure bet the Empire knows we're here"?

    Cut to a Star Destroyer in space, a big, hulking, scary Star Destroyer and then watch it be.... enshadowed. By what? A bigger, meaner, 10x the size super-destroyer - one that's black too!

    Remember how impressive and scary that big bastard looked? Yeah? Well, that's what goes down in flames in Iron Fist!
     
  15. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Hav - okay, I take your word for it: I'll try to keep myself unspoiled until Solo Command. I will even steer clear of related Wook articles. I trust you wouldn't suggest it unless it was awesome. Or gutwrenching. Or both.

    As to the rest of your review, I have very little to add save the fact I enjoyed it tremendously; your love for the novel is really clear - it makes me feel the way I feel when someone lets me rant on at them about the awesomeness of Traitor. ;)

    I will note that the discussion you quoted - with Wedge and Janson, is the one other place I almost teared up. Not quite, but almost, because I wasn't expecting it. And unlike many other franchise novels, with their various character shields, it actually felt true. They're brilliant, but they drop like flies. It's a contradiction I wouldn't have thought one could pull off and I'll get to it a little more in my discussion of Castin below.

    As to Zsinj, I'm sorry to say that I'm not...absolutely loving him. I mean, I like him well enough and certainly think he's more well-rounded than I was expecting. But I feel a bit more like he's a cross between Grievous and Pellaeon rather than those you list. Capable, competant, frightening, theatrical, a bit of a coward but with a flare for tactics. I enjoy that he definitely is competent and I think that to contrast him with Isard he's slightly more interesting in some ways because Isard essentially conforms to her stereotype (cold, competent, ruthless), while Zsinj plays on his (which says he should be egotistical to the point of being incapable and overconfident).

    That said, the issue you mention about Zsinj tricking the Wraiths completely passed me by and...that is something that makes the character a lot more interesting to me.

    Vialco - I take your point about Castin Donn. Personally I don't think that one last act undoes a lifetime of attitudes and as others have said, I even appreciate the breadth and complexity it gives him - that he can be against certain aspects of the Empire yet indifferent or even in favour of others - history's littered with examples of people holding contradictory prejudices, and it's something slightly unusual to see in this way in this context. So...I guess whether or not he overcame his prejudices, it's that he had them that I find most interesting and I don't think he really overcame them completely enough or long enough for me to really overcome my distaste for him. That said, his death was incredibly powerful, albeit, for me, via Dia's storyline.

    To refer to something I mentioned further up in the post, I actually think it's important that Castin did die as a result of his own stupidity. As I was saying to Havac, Allston dares confront the issue of the Wraiths being brilliant but doomed. Castin, as you say, paid for his life in order to achieve a goal that eventually brought the Wraiths victory. But he did so recklessly and as a direct result of his own character flaws. Wedge never denied the importance of his computer programme, he simply wanted to implement that part of the plan later, and in more safety. Would it have worked? Was this the only chance, as Castin believed? We'll never know. But it was certainly characteristic of that Wraith-trait - brilliant, sideways ideas that actually get you killed.

    All right, yes, that is cool. Largely because I tend to forget it's black and the image of it as a visual silhouette where there are no stars is pretty creepy and awesome.

    ETA: Ugh I knew I'd forget something. I did want to say something about Dia, actually. Because her storyline really is a subplot, but incredibly well-executed. The way you go from wondering if she's that cold hearted to her actually trying to shoot herself in the head is a stomach-dropping literary turnabout. No
     
  16. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I love it, because it's an illustration of something that Stackpole takes pains to tell but never shows in the Rogue books -- the idea that these elite units are simultaneously the best of the best, able to vanquish all comers, and yet subject to regular massive casualties because, as brash aces taking on the hardest missions, they simply cannot all individually achieve the sort of performance the squadron regularly achieves -- they can't all beat the odds. They can't all spit in Death's eye forever.

    Stackpole hits that theme again and again in his books, talking about the squadron's reputation and Wedge's reputation for massive losses as well as indomitable performance. The idea that the Rogue legends from back in the day weren't actually around all that long. The idea that while the truly great might be unkillable gods of the cockpit, the good die young. That idea that no matter how good you are, about a third of you are going to die in your first five missions. That that's just how combat is.

    But aside from making sure he killed off three pilots by the end of the first book to prove a point, Stackpole basically abandoned that theme. Once he's made his point, one Rogue dies in the entire rest of the series. And because only one of the people who died in the first go-round was anyone we cared about, the sense that that theme is actually anything meaningful, other than background dressing to throw a bit of tension at you and remind you how awesome the Rogues are, goes out the window. It's like in movies where "No one can [do whatever]!" says Exposition Guy . . . except it turns out, all the protagonists can. Everybody's special, so nobody's special, and the core idea doesn't hold any meaning except as a vague signifier of how wonderful the heroes are. That atmosphere is gone.

    And Allston brings it back here, big time. Anybody can die. It doesn't matter. You don't have to deserve it. You don't have to be the worst pilot. You don't have to have dead man walking written on you. You can be Ackbar's niece. You can be a major supporting character. You can be the wacky slicer. You can be a beloved major character. It doesn't matter. And if you don't die, war will chew you up. It will kill your friends. It will mess with your head, badly. It will make you and all your friends depressed. If you make one wrong step, it will destroy you. It will grab you by your preexisting weaknesses and throw you into the fire.

    And if you're a brilliant, elite unit, your legends will still die. You will get thrown at the enemy again and again and again until something, somewhere, gives. You will live on the edge and you will fall off. Because that is war.

    And this is what we should have been getting with Rogue Squadron but never did. Stackpole talked a lot about the inability to live up to t
     
  17. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    That's a really good point about the legend of Ton Phanan. And I'll give Zsinj another novel to shine. ;)

    I think maybe I worked out a little of why I think that is, because Allston was one of my favourite authors already, but I do take your point. He's always had a knack for emotional deftness - for plot-entangled moments that resonate beyond their objective scope. Things like the survival horror of Ben's time on Ziost or Anakin Sal-Solo or the thematic appropriateness of Jaina as the trickster goddess, or even Lord Nyax who, okay, wasn't that awesome, but was a lot more epic and well handled than the return of that character should have been.

    What I think is here in...not ways it isn't in other novels, but on, well, all cylinders, is narrative deftness to compliment it. To harp on about it, the Dia and Castin plot is probably the easiest way to illustrate it. Castin dies and it means one thing with emotional resonance (death because he didn't overcome his weaknesses), but the moment he dies, it shifts gear towards Dia and facilitates something completely different, which also has emotional resonance (Dia's character development). It's easiest to do with deaths, because they're big, epic events that we are hardwired to think of as both narrative endings and narrative motivators. Stover does something similar with Ganner and Jacen, and Allston himself does something similar with Ton and Face. But Allston does it with a number of things here, and moreover, the Dia-Castin example is interesting to me because the plotlines that are resolved/begun with Castin's death are relatively disparate while the Jacen-Ganner or Face-Phanan examples are more obviously tied together (which is not to criticise them - as you know, Ganner's death is probably my all time great Star Wars moment, and I can honestly say now that Phanan's death is up there too, but it's something slightly different to what I'm trying, rather ineptly, to grasp at. I suppose I could also say something here about how maybe I just had a bit of a breakthrough about why Mara's death never quite worked for me - it worked well as a motivator for others, but never resonated with me as an ending for her. But now I really do digress...)

    It's something to do with the speed, the briefness of the series in the context of the EU. It's the opposite of these large, bombastic nine-part arcs with not enough plot to keep them going. Anakin Sal Solo and Ben on Ziost have the hallmarks of classic Allston subplots - brief and emotionally resonant - but somehow they feel like they were invented to mark time in a way the Wraith plots don't. I suppose it's apt: they are novels about "unimportant" characters in the scope of the franchise, there's no pressure for the slow burn, to drag anything out. The books burn like the characters, and I do wonder if, when he was writing them, Allston knew how many more he was likely to get. I have this image in my mind of the series being somewhat niche but I have no idea if that's an accurate representation of their popularity at the time.
     
  18. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Allston had three books from the beginning, and Stackpole's X-wing stuff had been a pretty big hit. So he had the ability to define a complete narrative arc with his new characters in a way you don't really see in the ongoing material.
     
  19. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Cool, thanks for the info. It'll be interesting to keep in mind while reading the final novel.

    Apropos of not that much, I finally got round to watching that Jekyll mini series this month (even though it came out like, three years ago yes...) and reading about wonderful, heroic Denis-Lawon-playing-Wedge-Antilles while watching evil, slimy Denis-Lawson-playing-Peter-Syme was causing some serious cognitive dissonance. I kept accidentally reading lines with the wrong inflection...
     
  20. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004
    I read the scene at the dance last night. I'd forgotten how good and realistic the Dia storyline was. I found myself getting misty-eyed again when she and Face were dancing. Damn you, Aaron Allston. :p
     
  21. Lane_Winree

    Lane_Winree Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2006
    I'm fairly certain that no SW author has made me cry as many times as Aaron Allston has :_|
     
  22. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Well I just finished the book. I'd forgotten how intense the ending was! I have to say that it's so nice to get a glimpse of Han Solo in charge in these books. We all know and love Han as this roguish scoundrel, and even when we do see him in charge of ROTJ, it's on a smaller scale so we don't get the sense of his intelligence and command sense like we do in these books. It's refreshing, especially since we know how smart Han really is.

    And oh man, I'd totally forgotten about Wedge-as-Kettch flying with Baron Fel...talk about wanting to rip my heart out again, Aaron Allston! :p

    "Fel have mate?" There it was, the question Wedge wanted to ask, had to ask. What was the fate of Fel's wife, Wedge's sister Syal?

    It sounded as though Fel was happy in Zsinj's service. Perhaps irredeemable. That meant the next time they flew together Wedge might have to kill him.

    DARN YOU AARON ALLSTON! :_|



    I love going back and reading these books so long after I first read them...it's like experiencing them for the first time all over again!
     
  23. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    I think the book highlights the problem that the current line of thinking in SW novels (possibly coming to an end?) have - the idea that people are only interested in reading about big characters having epic, galaxy-shattering fights with enemies more terrifying than ever before.
    In the grand scheme of things - sandwiched between the Battle of Endor and the Return of Thrawn - the story of Wraith Squadron is somewhat of a minor one. But the fact that it has such an impact (admittedly I'm a big fan of the series) is telling.
    I probably brought it up with Wraith Squadron, but the series provided COPL with a much-needed background to the point where it's more of an epilogue to the series. Certainly Zsinj's threat to the young NR is much more credible here than as an "informed attribute" in COPL.
     
  24. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    General Solo in the Wraith books is as good as Han has been in the post-ROTJ EU, period. I cannot believe they abandoned the general thing so easily. The greatest crime of the EU.
     
  25. Darth McClain

    Darth McClain Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
    I've been rereading the X-wing books over the last couple months, and just finished Iron Fist earlier today. I love it. It's great book.


    I think everything has already been said about Phanan's death. It's a really moving scene. He's a great character.

    The climatic battle is also really awesome. Allston does a good job using the fleet properly - it's fun to read about the maneuvering and how everything happens.


    Allston's characterizations were spot on, too. The old characters were expanded upon - like jealous Wedge, in addition to the rest of the Wraiths. Han was great as a miserable fleet commander. You could really feel for him, and that's still the case in Solo Command. Most of the new characters were interesting, too. Iron Fist and Solo Command have the best characterization of Zsinj, at least in my book. Way better than Courtship of Princess Leia. Dia was quite interesting, too. I didn't really care for Castin - but that's the point. He was a screwup that let his arrogance get the better of him, and his death set forth a really interesting plot development for Dia, and Face, later on.

    All in all, it's a very enjoyable book. The Hawk-bats are awesome, especially Lieutenant Kettch, but part of my liked the operations on the Night Caller a little more. That ship seemed much more like a character than the Sungrass did. Still, a solid read.
     
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