FF:NZ 2005 Election: Who will you give your party vote to?

OK, it's coming up to election time, and these boards have been a bit dull. So how about some forthright political discussions/arguments.

Bring it on!

I'd vote for Mr Don Brash... but alas I can't vote...

I'm still deciding ... I usually make my decision while waiting in line at the polling booth : )
I can say I'd never vote for NZ "Xenophobia" First or National. I sometimes get the impression Don Brash would scrap the minimum wage, given half a chance.

Anyone been visited by Destiny Party candidates? I came home to find their flyers all over our doorstep one night.

Labour.

Sure I'm self employed and should 'probably' swing Nationakl's way with tax cuts, but I live in a real world and understand tax is a neccessary evil.

Student loan interest write off.

Helen is best leader by far. Brash is a complete twit.

Yeah, Labour's student loan policy is very enticing ... I'm a little skeptical as to whether they'll actually deliver on it, though. I would be happy even with a 50% reduction in interest ... right now, it's comparable to a commercial loan. My brother left medical school with a 60 grand loan ... after a few years, he transferred it from the government to his bank, because they offered him a much better interest deal.

Can you do that?

Yea, my loan is just on the double figure mark but any amount of money I have to pay that I don't need to will be welcome in my pocket.

Labour

basically just for the student loan promise

Who voted United Future?

If you vote, it helps if you then post as to who you voted for and maybe a little reason why. I mean, this place is so dead we're forced to talk politics.

OMG.


lol If we weren't bad enough being SW geeks, we're now SW geeks talking Politics. LMAO.

So much anger in you SFL!


Anyway check out this site for some interesting reading


www.taxcuts.co.nz

Throwing in a few figures... few hundred $ per year... meh.

Still not going to sway me to National. It's all propaganda anyway.

Shut up and do it

Do what? Vote Nat? I thought you said yourself you were voting Labour?

Suffer some SERIOUS braindamage over the weekend?

I'm going Labour, never really liked National. I wasn't going to vote but i figured I would so that the crazy Destiny Party doesnt get in. the thought that they want to run our country really freakin scares me...

Well Destiny support was steady at 1% last week, so I don't think you need to worry. You should of course vote anyway, though.

Can you do that?

If you want to transfer your loan from the ird to your bank, take out a loan with the bank and use the money the pay off the ird. It would depend on what kind of deal you were offered, as to whether it was worth it.

ah, yea of course.

But if this no interest comes in, anyone who's done that will be out of luck. The government will assume the loan has been paid off, when in fact you're still paying it off, as well as bank interest now.

K, now i really don't now who to vote for.

I mean on one hand Labour has the no interest on my student loan.
And now on the other hand i'm gonna get a tax cut from National.



Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it irritates me when people vote for whoever is going to give them the biggest lolly. And, annoyingly, that's the way both Labour and National are targeting their policies to voters. At the end of the day, I'd rather vote for a party which I thought would improve health and education and reduce crime, and generally make the country a better place to live, rather than vote for a party which was going to "let" me pay $20 less tax a week. Basically, I'd rather be worse off financially and live in a country where the general conditions for everyone were better.

Whilst National's tax cuts look appealing on one hand, chances are (despite everything national says to the contary) that it'll mean interest rates will increase. Which means that anyone with a mortage, or thinking about getting one, will probably end up paying a lot more each week.

Also, bear in mind that Dr. Brash, who is currently campaigning on a platform appealling to "hard workers", wanted to scrap the minimum wage when he was govenor of Reserve Bank as it'd be good for the economy. In my opinion, his past record proves he couldn't give a flying ____ about ordinary workers.

damn! meant to select the greens but selected jim andertons progressive by mistake.
I like the greens and believe they have some sensible and sustainable policies, if you are interested visit The Greenswebsite and have a nosey.
Without the greens labour would have run roughshod over GM foods, something for which we can all be thankful.
other policy highlights include sustainable electricity generation, reduction in road user charges based on the fuel efficiency of your vehicle and the decriminilization of mary jane (and lets face it prohibition hasn't helped control it and has in fact led to an upsurge in the use of P etc)
so go on have a nosey use that party vote properly, if you want to vote for labour support your local candidate, but spare the greens a thought that party vote is important for them to get seats whereas the big players will probably gain majority without it.
and as for the National Party I wouldn't trust mr Brash as far as I could throw him, he'd have us kowtowing to the americans in a minute,and would screw the working and middle classes (yes i know New Zealand is supposedly a classless society but the gap between rich and poor keeps on growing) so his cronies could enjoy their large tax cut.

labour would have run roughshod over GM foods, something for which we can all be thankful.

Don't get me started on the GM debate. The vast majority of those against GM foods have little or no real idea about Genetic Modification. If it wasn't for Genetic Modification in one way or another we probably wouldn't have such things as Bread, Rice, Decents beef etc.

By a farmer saying "this ram will sire these ewes" is fully GM. It'sd most certainly not survivaly of the fittest nor natural selection, therefore we are modifying the genes to how we want.

(one case study for example) GM onions that almost made the fields at Lincoln were herbicide resistnace qualities. Thus crop growers could spray the entire paddock and kill all the competing weeds and the onions would not be affected, giving them more nutrients (that the weeds would have competed for), water, sunlight etc - thus creating better and more onions for the market... at a cheaper price no less. However, this then brings up the superweed debate (no not a smokable leaf product) but a plant that becomes immune to herbicide, thus spreading with having no 'easy' way of stopping it.

Personally:

some GM is completely fine.

GM is required and neccessary for the growth of the human population as a whole

GM = ie: putting jellyfish genes into a mouse so it glows in the dark = BAD.

That's my stance. And I'm a 'greeny'.

As for STH's POV on a better country. I'm all for that. I know tax is neccessary - health / education is dynamic, and therefore we all need to chip in and help out. Because when we're all old, and have hearts about to explode, I tell ya. We'll be wanting a decent Health System and shorter waiting lines.

Crime - I'd rather life in my house with my wife and kids in the future and feel safe. And if this means a slightly higher tax. I'd rather pay for it.

Maybe it's not like going to the supermarket and buying a bag of spuds, but essentially you are buying the rights to have police doing their job and protecting us. (I know the police have had it rough lately, but the police in this country and ALWAYS been understaffed and under funded. And if tax means they finally get to decent numbers and decent means and ways of getting the scumm off the streets - I'm happy for my hard earned cash to go towards that.

edit = decriminilization of mary jane

As far as I'm concerned. It can stay banned. Look at alcohol. It was lowered (the age limit) and now 12 year olds have access because immature 18year olds buy it for them. The same will happen and I don't want my neice or nephews and children in the future, to have the slightest bit of a chance of easier access to drugs. In saying that, those who are going to try and use those substances at 12-18 are still going to do it whether it's legal or illegal... just like alcohol. If it's legal and 'controlled', for the +18yo, it still wont be 'controlled' for the 12yo. So meh.

Fines should be brought in for smoking and unmaintained cars and trucks.

Nuclear power plants are going to be here in the future, and if that means keeping the integrity of our braided waterways, I'm all for Nuclear power (without Homer Simpson). But before these, windfarms are a MUST. And people pissing and moaning about them being an eye sore. TOUGH, GET USE TO IT. They are needed, and other things... maybe like solar panel farms for engery collection too (shrugs). Personally I'd rather see a wind farm, than have dam after dam blocking up our rivers causing massive environmental damage to our native flora and fauna.

I'd rather life in my house with my wife and kids in the future and feel safe.

LMAO Funniest thin i've read all day.

I'm in at least partial agreement with SithForceLord here ... it annoys me when people (and this isn't aimed at you Graal, 'cause I'm sure you've thought the issue through) take a "science = evil" mentality. I agree that there are some very disturbing applications for genetic modification. Both morally/ethically, and also in terms of a business model. (ie. companies like Monsanto breeding seed stock which cam only be used once, and sueing farms for growing products when the seed has accidently germinated in their properties.) But a lot of GE is essentially accelerated selected breeding, and is not that different to what has been going on for the last few thousand years*.

What really annoys me is people like Susan Devoy or Allanah Currie jumping into a debate on science, and using arguments like "as a mother, it just feels wrong" to justify their stance. Bollocks.

All this being said, I feel sorry for The Green Party. I think they've been a good lobby group in Parliament, but sadly I think Labour's student loan scheme has basically stolen away a lot of their support base.

*Oh, and note to Nandor Tanczos ... the dope you smoke now is apparently 10 times more potent that the marajuana smoked in the 60s. Coincidence? Or Genetic engineering? Hmmm.

Jesus Solo. For once in my life I post a serious reply to a topical discussion and you take the piss. Woe is me.

Yea, in no way was I taking a jab at you Graal ol' chap. Just GM in general, and other 'less informed, yet highly opinionated' people.

Good point on the GM dope STH

Jesus Solo. For once in my life I post a serious reply to a topical discussion and you take the piss.

Who told you my first name????

I thought it was José

"Genetic modification"
Description: Genetic modification shall mean modern biotechnology used to alter genetic material of living cells or organisms in order to make them capable of producing new substances or performing new functions.
Source: UNEP International guidelines for safety in Biotechnology

Description: Genetic modification occurs at least through the use of the following techniques: (i) recombinant DNA techniques using vector systems; (ii) techniques involving the direct introduction into an organism of heritable material prepared outside the organism including micro-injection, macro-injection and micro-encapsulation; (iii) cell fusion (including protoplast fusion) or hybridization techniques where live cells with new combinations of heritable genetic material are formed through the fusion of two or more cells by means of methods that do not occur naturally.
Source: Council Directive 90/220/EEC on the Deliberate Release into the Environment of Genetically Modified Organisms

"by means of methods that do not occur naturally"
being my standpoint!!


I by no means take the "Science=evil" standpoint, selective breeding is NOT a form of genetic engineering as plants and/or animals are selected for breeding based on desirable qualities or characteristics. This can take a long time assuredly but when you introduce foreign matter/DNA into any organism how can you be sure of the result? and how can you guarantee that there will be NO advers reaction in future generations. look at the rate of cancers, food allergies etc now being linked to GM soy products introduced into the food chain as either stock food or direct to the consumer. The human body has taken thousands of years to adapt to some foods (and in some cases like dairy products or nuts still hasn't in a lot of the worlds population) so should we be messing with something when we don't know what the end result will be. and yup the super strong pot has been selectively bred each generation of one particular variety can be cross bred with others to obtain the desired qualities. In the case of commercial hemp the reverse has been the outcome you'd need to smoke a telephone pole sized joint to get a slight buzz.

As for the marijuana debate, prohibition of alcohol did not work anywhere it was tried in the 1930's, crime sky rocketed and we are seeing a similar situation developing in New Zealand.
Gangs make a huge income from sale of pot and are able to push people over to harder more addictive drugs in the long term, they can also lace a "tinnie" with anything they like hairspray, pcp, P etc.
Why not follow the dutch system and license growers gathering more revenue for policing harder drugs and stop the flow of P and other far more detrimental drugs.(The netherlands has one of the lowest rates of drug addiction in the world)


If fines for sale of liquor to minors were increased ,offenders barred from holding liquor licences and those over the legal age supplying minors faced the full weight of the law including jail time.(and what sort of parent lets their 12 year old out unsupervised anyways!! Don't even get me started on this one)

Why should consenting adults not have the right to posess the herbal equivalent of a large bottle of vodka?
Has anyone actually read this which predicted what would happen with regard to harder drug use under the current prohibition system and suggested over 7 years ago that the law needs to change.