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2006 State of the Union: Analysis, Reaction, and Discussion

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Darth Mischievous, Jan 30, 2006.

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  1. Darth Mischievous

    Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 1999
    President Bush will be making his State of the Union Address this Tuesday evening.

    In my opinion, the points he needs to cover in order of priority are:

    1. Iraq
    2. Katrina and the rebuilding efforts (or lack thereof)
    3. The national debt
    4. Energy Independence
    5. Border Security
    6. Clarification on domestic-to-international surveillance
    7. Palestinian situation
    8. Outsourcing
    9. Supreme Court review process by the Senate
    10. Cleaning up Washington
     
  2. dizfactor

    dizfactor Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2002
    I think your #5 is going to surprise a lot of people by being a big focus of the evening.
     
  3. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I would submit that #2 on the list is secondary to number 3. Is it perhaps that you live in the affected area that leads you to put it at second place, DM?

    E_S
     
  4. Darth Mischievous

    Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 1999
    #2 is a huge reason why Bush's poll numbers went into the toilet.

    This entire region is a disaster, and Katrina was the worst natural disaster in US history.

    There are serious problems with how he and his administration are handling it. It is still a national news story, and the press is thankfully keeping the spotlight on it. This area is still tremendously devastated. Before we even think about giving a dime for foreign aid, we need to take care of Americans here at home in a situation like this. Most people agree with that sentiment in a bipartisan fashion, and there is much talk about the expenses shelled out to rebuild places like Iraq vs. taking care of our own.

    Hurricane Katrina is one of the largest failures of the Bush Administration, and he continues to demonstrate ineptitude in dealing with it.
     
  5. JediTre11

    JediTre11 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2001
    That would be quite a defensive speech. I think he is too confident (arrogant) in his position to use the State of the Union for that. He'll create an issue to make the whole thing sound positive. Perhaps health care costs, or a new social security plan (because the last one went so well).

    And #8 isn't really a problem. Outsourcing now, will come back as larger middle classes overseas, which means more people to sell products to. Therefore, you have unprecedented economic and market growth. Imagine the profits for Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft, if 50% of the Indians making below world per capita income suddenly had enough to buy the new gaming consoles, televisions and personal computers. Or even the old game consoles. The problem is lazy, uneducated American workers that are not able to adapt in a competative job market. The World is Flat, I'm going to parade that book like Oprah on methamphetamines.
     
  6. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    You do realize, of course, that Sony and Nintendo are both Japanese companies, not American ones. Why would Bush want to advocate policies in the State of the Union address that specifically benefit foreign companies, as opposed to American ones?

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  7. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Geore Bush on the defensive pretty much sums up the content of the state of the union, but certainly not the tone. I have no doubt that George Bush will come out fighting, with a rhetorical posture of going on the offensive, as always, and I imagine that whatever he says it will give him a noticable boost in his approval rating, even if it's temporary.

    The fact that you don't have more lawmakers coming out saying directly that George Bush committed a federal crime (and it is, in this case, completely clear cut) in authorizing the NSA wiretaps, suggests that Bush has already won on this issue. What propels the Bush administration forward at this point, and what Bush's tone should make clear, is the sense of resignation on the part of the American people, a bitter comprehension that having voted Bush in they're really getting what they deserve for the remainder of his second tterm.
     
  8. JediTre11

    JediTre11 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2001
    Of course I realize that, you missed the point. They may be based in Japan, but business for the US, is done in the US. We live in a global market. Nintendo employs thousands of people in America. Those companies, while based in Japan, will help the growth of the US economy. But ultimately, you may well be right. I doubt GWB has any clue that Nintendo has it's western hemisphere headquarters across the street from Microsoft's World Headquarters.

    You might call those thousands of jobs "outsourced" from Japan, and show thousands of unemployed Japanese people. But as a result, Nintendo Co. Ltd., is in a better position for sales, marketing, concept, engineering, shipping etc. because of Nintendo of America Inc. Microsoft outsources a lot of design and engineering positions to China. The result is a better overall product, and better Chinese relations, making for more opportunity in Chinese markets. Boeing does the same thing with Russia. You might call Microsoft, Boeing, even Google the new foreign diplomats.


    Ah, republican congress. November 2006 will be interesting.
     
  9. Obi-Wan McCartney

    Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 1999
    Bush is benefitting from the fact that more resources aren't being diverted towards investigations/hearings regarding his illegal wiretapping scheme.

    Bush has essentially admitted he broke the law. But, he feels he has a strong "Jack Bauer" argument, and that he can convince the public not to support impeachment. Do we really want President Denny anyway?
     
  10. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Bush's argument that he is above the law has essentially been proven correct. Hats off to the White House.
     
  11. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Do you two ever look at anything through a non-partisan viewpoint, or at least not rely on purely demagogic statements?
     
  12. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Bush committed a straightforward violation of FISA, an impeachable offense on its face. Bush's argument, from a legal standpoint, that Congress authorized the violation, or that he has the inherent constitutional authority to violate the law, is laughable. From a political standpoint, however, it seems to be have worked. The issue is not going away, but it also does not seem to be capsizing his second term.

    The American people seem to have concluded that their security is more important than upholding the Constitution, than placing legal limits on the raw exercise of power. Furthermore, this incident is setting an unfortunate precedent for the future of this country and undermines the credibility of the rule of law.

    I don't think this is an entirely partisan viewpoint. Were there more of a question over the applicability of FISA, or if Bush had even bothered to make a credible, good faith legal argument to support his stance, then there would be much less to worry about. However, Bush has simply said: this is legal because I have gotten away with it.

    The American people seem determined to prove that they deserve a president like George Bush.
     
  13. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Was it a straightforward violation? I've certainly seen evidence to the contrary.

    The point is that there is a difference between not agreeing with an action, and proclaiming that it is a clear violation of one law or another.

    It's easy to blame everyone else in a case like this:

    "resources aren't being allocated to investigate this obvious scheme..."

    "The public wants impeachment, it's just that Bush conned us all by pretending to be Jack Bauer.."

    "Bush is above the law and no one can stop him.."

    Maybe credit should be given to Congress, and they aren't so easily manipulated, but the actions don't really represent a Palpatine-esque lust for power. Bush can't but be the dumbest, and the most savy President the US has ever had at the same time.

    I just find it humorous when OWM switches into "Baghdad Bob" mode and starts denouncing the "illegal acts of aggression" and such of whatever Bush does without actually examining what he was supposed to have done.

    I wouldn't want him to change mind you..
     
  14. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    What will Bush be tauting as clear cut victories for his administration this year? The list is short.

    Rove - remains an unindicted coconspirator!!!
    social security reform - lack of progress overshadowed by relentless series of scandals!
    Abramoff - no pictures yet published of him making out with the President



     
  15. Jediflyer

    Jediflyer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2001
    I wouldn't give up on the spying scandal. The congressional hearings on the issue are just starting next week.

     
  16. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    What might be a good idea is if anyone wants to dig up the old State of the Union threads, and see how people's views have changed. I know some people have shifted right away from being enamoured to hostile; but seeing how Bush's approval has changed too would be interesting.

    E_S
     
  17. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    They may be based in Japan, but business for the US, is done in the US. We live in a global market. Nintendo employs thousands of people in America.

    It's just to bad that Nintendo is not doing so good. ;) Even if they were doing good the money that is made by them in goes right back to Japan. Same with Sony the thing with Sony is that they have more 3rd party people making games for them. Many not all but many that are based in the US.

    That is all. I will post what I thought about the SOTU tomorrow after I have heard it.
     
  18. Jediflyer

    Jediflyer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2001
    I know some people have shifted right away from being enamoured to hostile; but seeing how Bush's approval has changed too would be interesting.

    While I'm to lazy to do forum digging, I can relate a graph I came across today that addresses the subject on national level

    This comes from the Washinton Monthly blog:

    [image=http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/blogphotos/Blog_Pew_Importance_State_Union.gif]
    Importance of this year's State of the Union compare to years past.

    Original PDF source with some other interesting poll numbers.

     
  19. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Well, one thing that would be interesting would be to find out whether the people who thought Bush was related to Christ and who now think Bush in an inept chump think Bush has changed, or that they have changed...

    E_S
     
  20. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Bush rocks!!!!!

    Only the fearful and weak have changed their minds.
     
  21. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    I wouldn't give up on the spying scandal. The congressional hearings on the issue are just starting next week.

    But no one should give up on it, but that's always what I say.

    Bush's action's could be found to be more guilty than a 3 dollar bill, or they could be determined to be a valid use of authority. Until the issue is examined by the proper venue, and the entire situation reviewed, we don't know.

     
  22. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Hopefully that will be determined in a court of law. It's calling out for a close look by the SC, even if it is one stacked by Bush.
     
  23. Lank_Pavail

    Lank_Pavail Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2002
    The question is, should Bush be found in violation of FISA, what then? Somehow I don't see Bill Frist and Delay's replacement (whose name escapes me presently) calling for impeachment. :p
     
  24. Darth Mischievous

    Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 1999
    one thing that would be interesting would be to find out whether the people who thought Bush was related to Christ


    Now that is a bit uncalled for, E_S.

    Bush's performance on national securty post-9/11 is good, but his domestic agenda is terrible.

    I readily admit that I fit into the category of altered perception, but so have much of the American people based upon his poll numbers. Such a statement as above is needlessly provocative and indeed offensive.
     
  25. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    DM; it never ceases to amaze me how Americans cannot take any form of irony. It explains why your version of the Office was utterly dire; but in this case, I wasn't being literal when I said "related to Christ"; I was being facetious. I was using an exaggerated comparison to make a point, rather than being literal. :)

    I will forgive you, since you have a cultural blindspot to all things subtle. ;)

    E_S
     
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