Amph 2010: The Year of Spider-Man

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Jedi_Johnson, Jan 5, 2010.

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  1. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Well obviously you can't have Peter not involved in Norman's doings, but really, what would you have liked him to have done? Yeah, the other Avengers could go to him for advice, but now that Osborn has an army on his side he's way out of Peter's league. While I think he could have had a bigger role to play in Siege, it was really a story about Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, and Thor coming together for the first time since Avengers:Disassembled.

    And like Quest said, the number of characters who had "personal" vendetta's against Osborn during Dark Reign was ridiculous.
    Spider-Man
    Iron Man
    Steve Rogers
    Nick Fury
    Clint Barton
    Namor
    Emma Frost
    Punisher
    Deadpool
    Thor
  2. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    If the other characters are more integral have Spidey sidelined for a better reason. Norman knows Spidey's involvement could be a threat so he makes a pre-emptive strike that takes the webhead out of the game (comatose, beaten nearly death, another plain of existence). If you are facing off against Osborn Spidey should be an integral part of your team. As it was he got a single punch in. That's about it. And Norman is never out of Peter's League. Peter knows his thought process better than anyone, and how to push the man's buttons.

    Not to mention limiting the scope story to the three primaries makes for a rather one dimensional story. That can be the backbone of the story, but other people have their stories to tell. I understand this is the hour of need that reunites the Avengers, but that's exactly my point. If you have Spidey as an Avenger, have him there for a reason. If you involve him in big stories, he should be involved because he's integral for some reason. There is no better reason than one of his most personal villains making a play for greater power. If you don't need him, find a way to better sideline him. The Venom stuff was ridiculous.

    And no one has a greater vendetta against Osborn than Parker.
  3. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I'd say that HAMMER Osborne is a different creature than Goblin Osborne- yes, there's a certain amount of psychological insight Spidey could provide, but it's application would be limited. You're dealing with a semi-sane Norman who has a legal army at his disposal, back up by the US government, Dark Avengers, Shadow Initiatives and the Cabal, with access to stolen Stark tech on top of that.

    The Goblin's never had anything close to that at his disposal when facing Spidey (the closest would be a Dark Avengers/Sinister (insert #) analogy), and his MO is gonna be completely different.

    He's operating like the Norman running the Thunderbolts- with whom Spidey has limited experience (most direct would be New Ways To Die, where the conflict becomes more about Anti-Venom than Osborn vs Spidey).
  4. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    I disagree. Despite his changing arsenal or means of power, Norman's thought process doesn't change. He started as a power hungry arrogant man and remains a power hungry arrogant man. He has played Spidey from all kinds of angles, with all kinds of strategies. No one else involves knows the man better. But that's beside the point I am trying to make. Either utilize Spider-Man properly or not at all. Having someone who should be a major player in this event skulk around the background to take on B-Villians is a waste of the character entirely.
  5. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    We're halfway through the year, not feeling the Year of Spider-Man thing. The Gauntlet doesn't feel like anything new. Guess wait longer?
  6. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    There's still Grim Hunt (possible return of Kraven), One Moment In Time (what really happened during Peter and MJ's wedding) and Origin of the Species (birth of Norman Osborn and Lilly Hollister's child) to come. But yeah, The Gauntlet has drawn for too long and has become a bit of a chore. Pity, Spidey had such a nice momentum... I hope they can bring it back.
  7. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    So it's Half of The Year of Spider-Man
  8. Darksama Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2007
    star 1
    The Gauntlet is over and the Grim Hunt has begun. I have to say that I liked that Gauntlet which was overall well done. Seeing so many of Spidey's rogues gallery showing up again, most of them having been re-imagined, was good after Brand New Day and the villains introduced there. Many of the stories were very interesting, being very true to what makes the character of Peter Parker/Spider-Man such a long standing part of Marvel's line up. I really recommend reading the whole Gauntlet. Two issues are out for the Grim Hunt storyline and I have to say that the pacing is pretty fast with so much happening. There are some awkward moments but the story so far has flowed very well. Each issue also has two extras after the main story. One focuses on Kaine while the other is a Stan Lee short. The Kaine one is interesting so far giving you a look at an untold tale where he encounters Kraven before his death. The second extra unfortunately has such a different feel from Grim Hunt that it disturbs the atmosphere generated by the main story. I have so far ignored it for the rest of the issue but others may decide to read it along with everything else. Whatever floats your boat.
  9. TheGDBatman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2010
    star 1
    "I hated OMD because it was just a reset button, after some serious stuff in the Spidey-verse. Just really seemed like a cop-out because they didn't know where to go with it."

    Aye. If they didn't want Spiderman married, they could have just divorced them, killed her off, or come up with something unique.
    I always thought Spiderman was interesting because he grew up, but they stopped doing that. Isn't that part of the reason the college years are the most loved? Peter grew up, met new friends and allies, enemies, faced new problems. If you freeze a charactor in time, he just dies. ;)
  10. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    It wouldn't be unique to kill her or separate them because they've done that. And it was poorly executed so it was retconned. The problem with just breaking up the marriage is that there will be residual effects from that. They wanted to reset Spidey to a period were he was free from the marriage, not carrying the baggage of the marriage.

    Not to say it was a good idea, but if that's the direction they want to go, divorce or death wouldn't help matters, it would make them worse.

    And they aren't freezing him in time, just opening up the world to a wider cast and storyline. That was part of the deal with BND was introducing new people, new villains, new problems, but in a familiar pattern for the character.
  11. TheGDBatman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2010
    star 1
    That's all well and good, I just think they could have gotten to this point alittle cleaner. And I didn't mean death or divorce would be unique, only that they could have thought up something a bit better than a magic wishing demon. ;)

    As far as baggage goes, most comic fans luv them some continuity baggage. [face_batting]

    I'm not bashing what the direction they're taking it now, I'm ignorant of it. But from what I've heard in the last few years they've had those "IT'LL CHANGE EVERYTHING!" shake ups to Spidey every couple monthes, then retconned the changes out right after.

    I guess all I'm saying is, back in the day, Spidey met Gwen and MJ, dated Gwen. She died, he mourned, dated MJ, and then got married. It was relatable, and those facts didn't change a month later. Now, he ditches the secret identity, gets it back by retcon, Aunt May is shot, then retconned, his marrage is erased, etc.
    I'd be pissed if I were a hardcore fan. ;)

  12. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    The nearly 100 issues since the retcon have been the best Spidey comics in decades. If that's all it took... eh. I think Quesada took a long time gamble and it's worked out. And don't get me wrong, I hated BND, but I also understood the reasons behind it.

    This said, I wouldn't mind it if Xavier made a deal with Mephisto to delete House of M, myself. [face_mischief]
  13. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    You are missing the point. The retcon was meant to get rid of the baggage, not be held down by more, to allow the writers to move past the problems not have to deal with them in a new way. It was cleaner to retcon, then to write themselves out of hole after hole.

    They wanted to move away from the constant change over and abandonment of characters and story changes that happened every six months because the series was stagnating in that repetition. Nothing was sticking because there was a rotating door of authors and with them series, characters and events that would just as quickly come and go. The idea was to get back to an ongoing series where the events of one issue have repercussions 80 issues later.

    Again its a regrettable move, but like JTS notes I feel the series is better for it having happened.
  14. TheGDBatman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2010
    star 1
    Ah, well that's good news then. I'd agree that the problems started years back, not allowing him to change and grow. Hopefully they keep up that route then.

    It does seem to be the problem with monthly series as a whole. You either let it progress and change to the point your charactor grows old and dies, or you rehash them to death. I for one wouldn't mind reading about Spidey in college in one series, and as a bitter 45 year old dad in another. [face_dancing]

    Thanks for clarifying, I wasn't trying to derail your thread. ;)
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