Discussion in 'The Senate Floor' started by Darth_Asabrush, Dec 29, 2004.
Maybe you guys are right. I mean 6th!!????!!! for the Lib-Dems in the Barnsley by election?
Here comes the Air Force, or at least what few planes we have left after the government cut the military so much. I can see the French laughing at us as we arrive on the scene with only 3 jets
Theres been a lot of hysteria about this, but even with the cuts we (will) still have the fourth biggest army in the world.
Maybe in terms of soldier numbers. But what good are troops if you have no ships or planes to aid them?
So then, is the coalition really about to fall apart over AV? Or is it all just put on to excite the Lib-Dem and Tory core voters?
I don't think it'll fall apart over AV (yes vote BTW!) there were already divisions over this situation before the coalition was formed and they've sort of worked through them.
The media however re building this up to be a bigger issue than it actually is IMO, I do however think the blatant BS that is being thrown out by the No camp is a disgrace and the Yes camp do have a right to feel aggrieved over it.
Looks pretty likely the NO vote will win though, I get the impression people either don't know enough about AV or don't care enough to vote.
Its more likely that apathy will be the downfall of the yes vote and then it will be decades before we get a say again.
AV isn't an ideal solution but its better than fptp imo
For quite some time the polling has been consistently pointing towards a NO vote. But the NO lead seems to vary from anything from 1%-16%?
I wonder where Darth Karde is with his local election predictions?
Latest AV poll from ComRes gows NO with a 32% lead over YES. FPTP would win with a landslide if it came away with anything like that size of a victory.
My concern is voter apathy and people generally not being interested anymore.
I also find Cameron very hypocrital with AV being a poor options considering he was voted in as leader to the Conservatives on AV!
The fact that the likes of the BNP and John Prescott want FPTP is enough to turn me against it.
The major plus point from a Celebrity endorsement (if that?s important to people) is that the likes of David Mitchell, Eddie Isard and Sir Stephen of Fry all support AV.
Apathy is going to kill this stone dead, that and the general populous stupidity.
To be honest, I think Cameron could quite happily live with AV. I'm certain he if he could get AV implemented and a continuation of the coalition government after the 2015 election, that would be the preferable outcome for him personally.
However, the Conservative Party have made it quite clear to him that should AV pass he would find himself in a VERY precarious situation with his party. The Tories are not backwards about coming forwards when it comes to dispatching their leaders and Cam must have realised he could well be given the sack by the Conservative Party should the country say YES2AV.
Anyway, another poll out this evening. ICM for the Guardian showing: Yes 32% NO 68% NO LEAD 36%
Alas it seems doomed to fail.
I am afraid I have been far too busy campaigning to have done any detailed analysis of the local elections. Obviously we are going top see a lot of Labour gains as they are coming from a very low base. I would say that 1,000 gains would the benchmark for a good result for them.
As for the referendum, NO clearly is going win. 2 months ago the result looked in doubt but once the Tory high command sensed real danger they reacted decisively. I doubt that Cameron wanted to push it this hard (and to trash his coalition partners) but he had no choice. Defeat would have been unthinkable for him.
Karde, what did you think to Farage campaining for a YES vote?
Me and the missus just voted yes!
If AV passes Britain gets a marginally less awful voting system but more importantly I get to watch the conservatives **** themselves with anger.
If AV doesn't pass I get to see Nick Clegg's very soul die.
Pretty win-win to me as a foreign spectator.
Amazingly theres reports on some websites that polling station staff haven't been giving people their referendum ballot papers when they've been turning up at polling stations.
I got mine, and voted YES for AV. Not that it will make much difference, but one can only try.
Just got to hope for a Lib-Dem/Tory ass-kicking in the local elections.
Well what an extraordinary local/regional election this has been - Surely the most dramatic since 1995?
Labours meltdown in Scotland to the SNP is absolutely astonishing.
The Lib-Dems meltdown to Labour in the north is pretty astonishing.
The Conservative performance is exceptionally good - The have actually achieved a net GAIN of councils and councillors, so far.
All in all, one of those elections that will stick in the memory for a long time.
And we still have AV.
The SNP results are surprising. It will certainly raise the profile of calls for Scottish independence and a discussion on its feasibility. So long as it wouldn't result in Scotland becoming bankrupt, then I say they should go for it.
Pleasing to see the Lib Dems getting the drubbing they deserve. If only that vitriol felt by voters could also be extended to the Tories then that'd be grand.
Not holding out any hopes for AV. If it doesn't get through, then hopefully the next time voting reform is brought up then with any luck PR will be the one we're discussing. It would be nice to get rid of the ridiculous campaigning that's gone along with the Yes/No campaigns as well. Whatever happened to campaigns based on the facts rather than childish name-calling and outright lies?
The chickens have well and truely come home to roost for Labour in Scotland. All along I always thought Labour was playing a dangerous game giving the Scots devolution and so it appears. Remember if Scotland leaves the Union a Labour government in Westminster will be an incredibly rare event.
As far as voting reform all I'll say is that if AV can't pass theres no chance PR would ever pass. Labour voters would be over 90% again true PR. Conservatives would be 100% against PR.
I don't think we'll ever see voting reform in my lifetime now.
I dunno, I can see the Lib Dems folding which would get rid of the split in the left wing vote. The depressing thing is that this country isn't even that blue. Considering all the mistakes that Labour made, the Tories still couldn't get a majority in terms of seats or in the public vote. I think if we have a few more years of Cameron, the Tories could be back where they were in 97 (or close to it). He really is a horrible politician.
Depressing that it's unlikely that PR will get a look in at any point. How a system as unfair as FPTP can be allowed to continue baffles me.
The general populous is stupid though and listens to what the papers tell them.
The Sun has the widest distribution of all amongst stupid people and this paper is pro conservative who are anti AV.
You do the math...
Followed by the Daily Mail. Kind of a damning indictment of the population when the two most read newspapers also happen to be the worst...