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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

3 Original Star Wars Pieces

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by mverta3, Jun 2, 2006.

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  1. mverta3

    mverta3 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Q: What is this stuff?
    A: MP3's. Between shows, I write a piece a day to stay sharp - these are 3 Star-Wars-inspired pieces. My apologies for doing them on synths and samplers, but nobody's footing the orchestra bill this time.

    Q: So they're not FOR anything?
    A: Just practicing.

    Q: Are they copywritten... I mean can I use them for something?
    A: Yes, and No. Unless you ask first. :)

    Q: They suck - should I tell you that?

    A: Of course. How else does one get better?

    Q: They rock - should I tell you that?
    A: Of course. No downside there.

    Q: Okay, so what are these supposed to be about?
    A: Battle Montage - Archetypal "battle montage" - plays basically like a Star Wars Greatest Hits, with a few of the traditional themes, plus a couple new ones, all wrapped in an original piece.
    Young Leia - Music for Leia as a little girl. Born of tragedy, with a dark pedigree, but strong, and resourceful, with a child's hope. Her "child's theme" ends with the first phrase of her "adult theme". Surprise (?) ending.
    Boba Fett and the Bounty Hunters - Mysterious, cunning, and brutual hunters. This is very primitive/warrior-like.


    Two things are critical when honing your craft: 1) Constant Practice. 2) Soliciting and Accepting Feedback.

    I've done number one; I'd appreciate it if you guys could give me some number two.


    _Mike
    www.mikeverta.com



     
  2. Well_Of_Souls

    Well_Of_Souls Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2001
    I really like the rhythm that plays under the Rebel Fanfare in "Battle Montage". Cool stuff.

    "Young Leia" has a bit of the same vibe that "Anakin's Theme" has (my favorite prequel theme), especially in its structure and the way it resolves with her adult theme.

    "Boba Fett and the Bounty Hunters" was decent, but made little impression on me. It seemed to lack focus.

    Pretty good, overall, though. :)
     
  3. mverta3

    mverta3 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Can you elaborate? This is the opposite of what I'd expected; if anything, I'd have said it has too much focus, and not enough variety. It just keeps hitting the motif. What, to your ear, is focus?


    Thanks for listening.

    _Mike
     
  4. Cerrabore

    Cerrabore Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Wow.

    This is much better than the usual crap I hear in fan films and videogames. It's very well orchestrated, and the synthesizers are decent (the brass is actually pretty good, though you might look into string improvements). You didn't write the original themes, but your use of them is very strong (Luke's theme, the "Lament" motif, and Leia's theme especially). I play a game like Empire at War and get frustrated by the mediocrity of Williams's themes because the composer used a trombone patch that has such slow attack time that you can barely hear the first measure of the Force theme. Nothing like that here. It's great. Of course, I also like the original material quite a lot. Are you a professional composer? Because if not, you should definitely look into it.
     
  5. mverta3

    mverta3 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Thanks for the feedback... yes, I make my living as a film and television composer in LA. And you're right, I need better strings, though generally I only use this stuff as temps, and do the finals with live orchestra. There's no comparison. No matter how close it sounds, it never feels anything like the real deal.

    _Mike
     
  6. TheBoogieMan

    TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2001
    The links do not work? which makes me sad. :(
     
  7. -Commander_Thigh-

    -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2004
    Those sound amazing!

     
  8. TheBoogieMan

    TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2001
    I finally got the links to work. Wow, you're obviously very talented. I feel the problem here is that you obviously have all the skills to make it in the composing industry, and there is little feedback we can give you that will actually help. I think inspiration is the main thing lacking here. That might sound a little harsh, but if you think about it, it isn't so nasty. What I mean is that the first two pieces seem more like technical excersises in genre music, and as you don't have a scene in a film to work from, they are a little hodge-podge. The same goes for the third piece, however, I feel it is a lot more original than the other two and your use of pizz. strings and percussion is very interesting. Similarly, your use of percussion to drive the last part of the first track was also a refreshing take on the theme.

    What software do you use to notate, and what patches are you using? With the exception of the trumpet and some of the strings, it sounds terrific.
     
  9. mverta3

    mverta3 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2003
    On this point, I disagree... it's my job to make sure I can connect muscially with the widest group of listeners possible. Quick affirmations or crticisms speak volumes, and after 18 years of working professionally, I can usually interpret even the most obtuse comments and find something to take away from it. This is a Star Wars based board, so I posted my Star Wars based sketches. Even casual listeners here have a familiarity with a genre asthetic; even if they can't say why, they can usually recognize it as "legit" or not. And people usually use their internet anonymity to say things they'd never share in person, so there's a better chance to get some truly honest feedback. There's always the danger of sycophantic reactions; people who will just like anything Star Wars because it's Star Wars, but I think in practice it's pretty easy to tell the difference...

    That's exactly what they are, in fact. Internalizing the same influences Williams drew from isn't as easy as you'd think. :)

    Notation I do by hand, with pencil... have since I was a little kid, but I do know Finale pretty well. My sampled orchestra is 4 Gigastudios with a combination of Vienna Symphonic Library, Garritan, SAM Brass, SAM True Strike, London Orchestra Percussion and a couple of others. I only use it for sketches and practice; fleshing it out helps to nursemaid younger directors through the cues since they don't seem to be able to judge from piano sketches anymore. But I always opt for live orchestra on the actual day; there is no comparison, emotionally, no matter how good your samples are.

    Thanks again for the useful feedback :)

    _Mike
     
  10. Jedi-Washington

    Jedi-Washington Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Wonderful work once again Mike!

    Battle Montage: The only thing I hear that I think it needs is that the winds parts sound a little empty. maybe I just can't hear them all the way, but without winds doing crazy runs and jumps in the background, battle themes never sound as chaotic as they should. it's one thing that bothers me in many battle themes composed. Just more fast notes. I hear good brass composing, fair strings composing, but the use of winds is not as effective as it could be. Just for a general feeling, I thought it sounded a little bland at times and could use more hectic mess going on. For a day's work, very good. Good use of the themes.

    Young Leia: I love the slow transition into her theme. Wonderful. One thing again: on one of the last chords before the end, the high first violin note seems to come out of nowhere. I want to relax into that nice low chord. I like the twist at the end with the celeste though. Very good.

    Boba Fett and the Bounty Hunters: neat. ambience cue at the beginning. A little more percussion than I like, but depending on whats on screen it would work great. Builds energy...working well. like the F.H./strings split there. Works well for a little action cue. Though they might be right in a little bit lacking. Sometimes coming back to the same thing over and over again sounds unfocused. Maybe a bit more development. Works well though.

    Great listens. When you told me you started working on scoring at 5 years old, I was very surprised. The time shows very well. One question: For samplers, do you load everything into a sound editor and apply the samples there, or do you have a pre-set that can translate midi or finale stuff into those articulations. Anything I do takes around two days to get on paper and finale. Once I do that, it takes two days of work in Cubase LE to get the samplers set, record the tracks and fix articulation issues. Yours sounds relatively polished already, and I know you wouldn't spend most of the day at a sampler trying to get them correct.

    again, pleasure to listen too. Hope to hear more of your work in the future.

    ~JW


    EDIT: Oh, and as for strings samplers, even basic EWQLSO silver has pretty good strings. I've had good experiances with the whole program in general. The winds aren't very good, but a few of the brass instruments feel a little more live than most, and the strings have a more acoustic recording to them that I like personally. I'm sure you've checked out the program before though.
     
  11. TheBoogieMan

    TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2001
    That's a very impressive array of samples you have to chose from, Mike. I wish I had the same, but I only have GarageBand's JamPack 4 to use. ;)

    Regarding the philosophy of battlescenes. I disagree, JW. It is all to easy to make a battle scene just more notes, faster notes and technical passages. Most of the battles from AOTC are empty because of this philosophy. Think of the most memorable music from SW battles - The Asteroid Field, the opening moments of the space battle in ROTJ. Along with this, think of the Motorbike chase from The Last Crusade. All those cues have specific themes which are used only in these scenes. They work beautifully, and when I hear the cue on the soundtrack I am instantly reminded of the scene and everything great about it. Similarly, William's best non individual thematic battle music, in my opinion, is the Battle of Yavin from ANH. It features very few fast, "more notes" passages, and instead relies on building tension through repetition and priorly established themes.
     
  12. mverta3

    mverta3 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Not entirely sure what you mean, but here's my workflow:

    First of all, I compose orchestrated. I've just always heard it that way in my head, and efficient orchestration actually looks a certain way on staff paper; it's hard to describe, but the two work together pretty naturally, I find, and usually the voice leading needs only a touch up or two.

    Anyway, I've got a swing-arm rollable desk that I put either by the piano or by my synth with the staff paper on and I just start. If I'm doing a sketch like these on the synths, then I open Digital Performer to a pre-built orchestra template I made, that triggers sounds I've loaded on my 4 Gigastudios. I'll call up an instrument, work out a couple of notes or chords, or else write it first into the score, and then put Digial Performer in record mode and start laying it down. So it's just back-and-forth between the sequencer and the paper. Usually I'll either write a few measures ahead and play from the score, or the other way around. Either way, neither paper nor sequencer is more than a few bars behind the other one. This way, as soon as I'm done, I can pass the score off to my orchestrators, who basically just have to proofread for voice-leading on a really rushed job, or occaisionally catch a doubling I might've missed.

    Usually what happens on a rush job is as the schedule goes on, I run out of time for full sketches, and the sequencing gets neglected for work on the paper. And in a REALLY rushed job, it just has to go right to paper without really time to work it out on the piano at all. I can think of more than a few nightmarish jobs bouncing around in the back of a cab writing on the way to a session...

    Anyway... thanks all around for great and perceptive feedback.

    _Mike
     
  13. mverta3

    mverta3 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Yeah, man, the prequel stuff has "filler" written all over it, and you don't have to be a composer to feel it; I've had to do it myself on shows where either the schedule was ridiculous or else there was no locked cut, and the cues had to be generic so they could be chopped up later by the M.E. I freakin' hate those jobs, and there's no question in my mind that Williams was not given a locked cut to score to. His single greatest talent, in my opinion, is his ability to maintain flawless internal cohesion in the cues while still serving the edit timing perfectly. You can tell when it's right, and you can tell when it's like 90% of the hack work going on right now. There are more than a few "big" scores out right now that are so utterly bereft of ideas, that 2 solid minutes of ostinato figures counts as a cue. It's like 4 measures with repeat brackets. But of course, writing 30-second loopable video game cues hardly prepares you for long-form concert writing, which manages to find a structural place in the film scores of ALL the greats.

    _Mike
     
  14. Jedi-Washington

    Jedi-Washington Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2003
    About battle scenes: Yes, thats what I mean. The Asteroid Field Has a lot of this tiny wind stuff going on in the background that I hear that adds a certain character. Not a lot of fast notes, the way I phrased that was kinda odd. The winds just have these odd patterns that they are sent through. I love the way John Williams writes for winds. They are rarely ever the key figure of his writing unless a scene calls for it in these big scores like Star Wars and Indiana Jones. They just color the music a bit by putting these odd almost minimalist rhythmic patterns on top of this romantic music. It's also a tecnique I've heard John Adams use. Williams and Adams love useing the piccolo and xylophone to do this. Is that a little bit more clear about what I'm talking about? Not more notes so much, I was wrong about that, but more of these odd passages on top of it all.

    Mike: Yeah, that question wasn't clear. I basically do the same thing you do it sounds, just at a slower pace. I need to learn more about midi patch changes and such. my system isn't very powerful, so I end up recording one or two tracks at a time and mixing them later. Definately not very efficient, especially when I end up recording a few different articulations to build the sound. I assume digital performer takes care of most of the issues I have. I'm going to read up more and learn more about VST and MIDI. Thanks for answering.

    sounds quite hectic. Ahh, the entertainment industry. nothing like it really.

    ~JW
     
  15. Emperor's Prize

    Emperor's Prize Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 1999
    Just to help you know in what context to take my comments, let me say that I am not very knowledgeable about the technical aspects of music. I am an avid fan, and I know what I like. But the finer subtleties of composition are, unfortunately, lost on me. I'm definitely one of those who focuses on the aesthetic.

    Battle Montage - It certainly sounds Williams-esque. I really enjoyed the uptempo flourish at around 0:25. I thought it was unexpected and distinctly different. And this definitely sounds like a "Greatest Hits" type of composition (which is enjoyable to me, at any rate). My only criticism is that the flourish at 2:26 seems just a bit too over the top for my taste. Overall, I can easily picture a space battle or duel taking place in the foreground while this keeps us hooked to the action.

    Young Leia - I like it. I think it does almost all of the things you set out for it to do including being childish, yet also proud and strong an tinged with a bit of sadness. It just doesn't seem to quite capture that "Star Wars" feel, to me, as much as the other two do. But maybe that's just because I'm having difficulty visualizing what kind of scene might be taking place in front of a theme such as this.

    Boba Fett - I really feel like this could have been a bonus track off Empire Strikes Back. The overall sound, the diversity of it, the percussion, the horns all feel "Star Wars" -- more so than the Young Leia theme. It definitely would serve a distinct purpose if Shadows were ever made into a film.

    At any rate, I certainly enjoy all three pieces and will more than likely continue to listen to them off and on.
     
  16. Cerrabore

    Cerrabore Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2004
    I've been listening to these some more, and have a few critiques.

    "Battle Montage" - the way the piece begins, with the timpani roll, sounds like a "fade-in," rather than an instrumental beginning. I think there's a little overdependence on harp throughout the piece as a transitional tool. Some of the chord patterns are a little plain; you could use more tension/color tones. In other parts, the chords have great variety. It's hard to judge your use of Williams themes, because the piece is not score material. If this accompanied, say, a fan film, I might suggest the Star Wars themes are overused. But it's hard to say. There are a few passages that seem to recall Star Wars action pieces verbatim. I suppose this was intentional, but if not, be careful of derivation.

    Not many complaints about "Young Leia," except for the theme itself. I like it, but it's not quite there, in my mind, as it comes to conjuring images of youth. Otherwise, the piece is really great. I like the use of Leia's theme.

    Again, with "Boba Fett and the Bounty Hunters," I love the orchestration, but not the theme itself. The three-note motif isn't especially interesting. But let me reiterate, it's just an awesome piece; the orchestration, structure, as well as the sound samples/mix make it a lot of fun. This is the kind of music that people are afraid to compose these days because it's perceived to be over-the-top. It reminds me of West Side Story.
     
  17. obiwanws2

    obiwanws2 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2004
    You use digital performer???.......i was never compatible with that program (which is why i use pro tools!)

    i'll rate the pieces a little later

    need more time to listen to them
     
  18. mverta3

    mverta3 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2003
    I do all my digital audio work in Pro Tools, but it absolutely would not suffice for my sequencing work.

    _Mike
     
  19. Crunchy

    Crunchy Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Is there anything you can't do Mike?
     
  20. Kwenn

    Kwenn Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2001
    Amazing work! The Battle Montage especially sounded excellent - and kinda reminded me of the music used in the X-wing games, though of a much better quality.

    Young Leia was beautiful, although as someone mentioned before, it doesn't feel particuarly Star Wars-y, other than the wonderful segue into Princess Leia's theme. The use of which also wasn't overdone; this theme could quite easily have simply transformed into a remix of that theme, which fortunately you didn't do.

    I'm currently listening to the Bounty Hunters theme, and I like what I hear so far. Reminiscient of Fett's Theme from ESB, but not so much so that it isn't a unique track in its own right. Another excellent piece, and very much a Star Wars-y feel - I got hints of Shadows of the Empire there, which I think the theme would fit in nicely with.
     
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