181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: The Bacta War!

Hiya, kids!

This month we will be discussing X-Wing: The Bacta War by Michael Stackpole. The TF.n Staff Reviews can be found here.

So, here we are at the end of the longest book arc the 181st has yet done, so I feel it might be appropriate to take a minute to note some personal reactions before I jump into wider discussion. I have to say that I'm glad it's given me a chance to read these novels. While they are not my favourite things in the EU, they're pretty darn great. I'm generally resistance to stories that aren't about Jedi and aren't about characters I know or who have become close to the movie characters. I also have trouble keeping dogfights and military action clear in my head, I think it's that, more than any flaw in the novels themselves that stop me from considering them among the alltime greats. Though Havac has threatened to convince me will Allston's contributions later in the series. But for now, I will say, I was impressed and thankful I had the kickstart into reading them, because I'd been meaning to for ages.

So, on to actual discussion on the novel:

- While the novels broadened in scope as the series continued, Corran Horn is still our chief protagonist. This novel sees development mainly in his personal life, both in terms of his romance with Mirax and his development in the Force. He certainly isn't the prodigy Luke was but it was nice to see a nod to his very powerful persuasion skills even if they weren't yet strong enough to stick. The book largely skips over the whole "getting together" part of his romance with Mirax and throws us straight into their relationship, even getting them married by the end of the novel - what were your thoughts on that?

- To segue from Mirax to her father - we see a larger smuggler presence in this novel as the Rogues have gone, well, rogue. Did Booster feature in the comics at all? What did you make of him here and how did he add to the dynamic of Corran's storyline and also the wider Rogue Squadron plot? He actually ended up doing a LOT of work in pushing the plot forward, albeit often "offscreen". I also found it an interesting reminder that Corran really wasn't on the wrong side of the law for most of the tenure of the Rebellion and the way difference in Booster's reactions to Wedge and Corran was very telling.

- Aside from Isard, this series really tore through its secondary villains. At this point, we're pretty much down to Vorru and Erisi Dlarit (who was not a (known) villain for most of the series). Vorru continues to show his usual flare for defection and allegiance to none but himself and we've discussed him before. He's openly questioning Isard's competence at this point, which I found interesting as her competence was one of her hallmarks previously; that said, she does, in fact, outsmart him in the end. As to Dlarit, this is her first spin as one of the Bad Guys, so I'd be interested in what you thought of that. Her role as villain seemed almost more tied to her rivalry with Mirax than her loyalty to her family's corrupt corporation. Was it a good idea to bring in a personal vendetta? Were there elements of the two-girls-fighting-over-one-guy cliche?

- The Rogues went rogue! OMG! Okay, so obviously the biggest part of the plot needs to be in here too. What were your thoughts on how the rogue Rogues storyline was handled? Were the reasons for their defection believable? And the reasons for the tacit support from the Alliance? What about the operational aspects? Was the 10 million in Tycho's frame-up accounts likely to be available to him rather than seized as evidence? Would the base they were operating have generated enough cash to fund them anyway? Or was it fun enough I oughtn't question these things?

- Finally, the structure of the novel and its use as the Big Finale. It was something of a cross between "lots of little adventures strung together" and "one big event it all builds to". We saw them take out each of Isard'

 

In order then:

1. Kids? Oh well, nice to be young again!

2. It was an excellent finale, delivering some quite jaw-dropping sequences and moments. If you need to sell this book to anyone, all you need say is a load of X-Wing versus a Super Star Destroyer! Job done, but is a pounding delivered by both sides!

3. I'm not sure how far planned out it was, Isard's possible survival was talked of in the Wraith series but that was the first time. Reading TBW you can quite easily believe she is permanently dead - although it does fit the 'if there's no corpse' rule.

 

The fight against the Lusankya was one of the most epic space battles in the Bantam era. We've known for ages that SSDs are massive and take a lot of killing, but Stackpole matches up a ragtag fleet against it in a believable fashion.

 

Corran's relationship did move very fast, and that plays into some of the complaints I made about fictional romance in a recent thread -- that fictional romance tends to want to focus entirely on courtship, on the romancing and wooing of the person, where all the best romantic tension is. Then, as soon as they're together, the authors rush them into getting them married as soon as they can, because in fiction marriage is the payoff of romance plotlines. In real life, wooing is a brief process that then leads to a long period of dating, an engagement that lasts months, and then marriage. In fiction, it's 87.68% wooing, 10.3% dating, and 2.02% engagement. "Well, I wasn't sure about you before, but I guess we're meant to be together forever. Let's get married."

On the other hand, Stackpole was kind of hemmed in by the structure of the series. He wanted to put them together just before Corran's captured, then have him come back and then dating starts, and that makes a lot of sense narratively, but that only left him with one book. So in one book, they get serious and Corran proposes. What does make it work, or at least makes it acceptable to me, is that the storyline, though in one book, stretches over a couple months. So they're dating for months, Corran proposes because they're a great match and he loves her and they're going into a situation that leads to the sort of military "let's make a commitment because we don't know what's going to happen" proposal, and then they get married right away because of Booster but still plan a real wedding later offscreen. For rushed fictional romances, it's pretty believable and well-constructed, much better than stuff like Luke/Mara or Wedge/Iella.

BOOSTER! Booster is awesome. He was in fact in the comics, but only in a flashback involving the deaths of Wedge's parents (great sequence, and READ THE COMICS). The thing about Booster is that he's just this tremendously entertaining, larger-than-life character who inhabits the universe so well. He's a perfect fit to the Fringe, and a great way to really bring the Fringe in its full glory into the Rogue novels. What's interesting is how The Bacta War is the most rounded-out, the most film-like, of the novels. The first three were pretty much all military-adventure -- they embraced the part of the films that was the Battle of Yavin, the Battle of Hoth, the Battle of Endor, the Death Star escape. Now, with Corran as a Force-sensitive Stackpole's brought in the Jedi element of the films, and with Booster and Karrde and the heavily Fringe plotline, he's brought in the Mos Eisley cantina, freeing Han from Jabba. It's got all the film components in it. Perfect for the big finale.

Vorru's certainly the most interesting villain left, in that he's an extremely clever, self-confident manipulator who's not really on Isard's side, so he brings in a unique angle and the potential to do something important. Stackpole never really exploits him to his full extent, but he's fun to read. Erisi is in the background maybe more than she should have been for it to be a big rivalry thing -- the Rogues don't seem to care that much about her, and she doesn't have a ton of POV or run-ins with the Rogues. Just giving Gavin a fricking awesome scene, and then fighting Corran and dying without a lot of fanfare to it. Stackpole really almost subverted expectations there by underplaying the whole thing.

The interesting part is how Isard really came to the fore as a villain. Before, she'd been the Blofeld lurking in the background; Loor, Derricote, and Thyne were the enemies we were face-to-face with, the ones directly antagonizing the Rogues. The Krytos Trap put her in the position of directly antagonizing Corran briefly, but in Bacta War it's very much a personal thing between Isard and Rogue Squadron for the first time. The Rogues are now directly gunning for Isard and she's out to crush Wedge. It really helps strengthen her as a villain, even as she's losing her mind and becoming increasingly unstable and unsubtle, losing what made her effective as a villain.

 

200 or so pages in, and I was just... worn out. Maybe trilogies occur frequently for a reason --- maybe four straight books by one author is too many? Or maybe it was specifically The Bacta War, but I had a hard time being interested enough to pick up the book and keep reading. It seems like it was jettisoning the ensemble-piece-formula of the previous two books and returning to the "Only Corran and Wedge" Rogue Squadron. And despite the book being so narrowly focused on a) Wedge's desire to take down Isard and b) Corran's desire to fulfill his promise to the Lusankya prisoners, the book keeps piling on new stuff. The appearance of Booster, the Twi'leks joining the cause, Elscol and Sixtus, and just now three other Gands randomly showed up to follow Ooryl around, which at the moment seems like a contrived plot device to beef up the Squadron.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of subplots --- but the thing is, these aren't subplots. These are cool plot elements that could be subplots in their own right, but they're not. The book is so far almost exclusively about Wedge and Corran, and it's seeming to me like Stackpole keeps adding new things into these plotlines that don't develop as fully as they could, and only seem to distract from them. Tycho just returned to the squadron, but all we've had from him so far is a random scene at the shards of Alderaan. Are we going to see him flying in space battles? Or how about the revived Bror Jace? Or are the next 150 pages also going to exclusively be about Wedge and Corran?

Corran's been really bugging me, too. His method of helping Iella get over over her tragedy is to constantly compare it to his own. Take your head out of your ass, jerk!

Like I said, I feel worn out... which is why I had no trouble putting the book down and reading Crosscurrent. I'll go back to The Bacta War now... I didn't hate what I've read so far, but after the steady crescendo that culminated with the fantastic The Krytos Trap, what I've read so far seems like an unfortunate step back down.

I'll get back to you in a few days after I've finished it.

 

I loved this book when I was younger, and I'm still very fond of it. It wasn't perfect, had plenty of the normal Stackpole... quirks, but still, what's not to love about the image of Rogue Squadron taking on a Super Star Destroyer?!

Let's see, the set-up is a bit contrived, although I can sorta believe that as it was an internal coup the New Republic might be reluctant to interfere. Having Isard in charge is even worse, as now she can charge them for all the bacta they still need to cure the Krytos virus, but at the same time, she can't hike the prices too much or else other worlds will eventually invade rather than pay. Although there's then the problem of not harming the bacta facilities too.

Its fun watching Rogue Squadron set up their operation. At the end of the last book they had seventeen million credits, Corrnan's X-wing and astromech, and Mirax's ship and her aid and that was it. I loved how their X-wings were auctioned off because they were missing parts (I hope Ackbar was involved in that), having Winter involved made sense as she's a close personal friend of both Tycho and Wedge, as well as Mirax. A little help from Pash and they even have an out of the way space station as a base. The Alderaanian War Cruiser was pretty convenient, but oh well, the Rebellion succeeded on these kind of lucky meetings. And then they bribe a Star Destroyer captain to join them, although unofficially it was an invitation to the New Republic.

And of course, there's Booster Terrik! He had been mentioned on and off over the last few books, but at last we finally meet him in person- and talk about awkward first meetings. Not that Booster would've ever liked Corran either way. He's loud, boisterous and very, very smart. Seeing Mirax negotiate for things might've been boring but seeing Booster and Kardde clash was awesome. And Booster even ends up with his own personal Star Destroyer! Not many people can claim that!

At the end of the third book, it was Rogue Squadron vs. the SSD Lusankya, but then we find out Isard has a VicStar II, two Impstars MK II and her own Lusankya. Nice how Rogue Squadron steadily whittled down her fleet until it was down to a few dozen snubfighters against a star dreadnought. And they used the telemetry trick again to hurl dozens of torpedoes at the Lusankya. Although I think SSDs were only 8km when this book was written, so its not quite insane for a 1.6km Impstar II to survive a broadside from the Lusankya, but sure makes for some very nice imagery, especially as Drysso was trying to capture the newly renamed Freedom.

Isard took center stage as the villain this time, though she was going slightly crazy. She had control of the galaxy's bacta supply, a Super Star Destroyer, and she spent most of her time trying to destroy Rogue Squadron? At least we have Vorru there to comment on her insanity. Although her plan to force the Rogues' hand was pretty good, I thought- rounding up all the "excess" Vratrix on world, and then killing them every month until they have enough to operate the bacta industry at 100% efficiency- it forces the Rogues to act or watch innocents die, and gets rid of all the Ashern too.

Vorru is the same as ever, especially as he presents a bit more of a civilized and polite front to Isard's megalomania. He's still absolutely self-serving, but I think he saved Yonka's mistress? Although his fate was appropriate too- he signed on with the wrong tyrant, so back to Kessel with him.

Erisi, well, she was always a petty and arrogant character somewhat, but here those flaws are on full display now that she doesn't have to play nice. She's not quite as brutal as Isard but she also doesn't have too many ethical problems either. Going out with a whimper, no explosion even, was perfect for her, as even Corran notes.

Nice cameos, like Kardde, but Stackpole's always been close with Zahn, I think. But still fun to see the fringe, especially seeing how much they can supply if someone has the right connections. Ah, those were the good old days when s

 

Hav - thanks for the rundown on the EU history of the series. It's kind of interesting and does help explain why Isard came back so much later. I agree it was nice to give Tycho the "kill" and perhaps I was bringing in some of my external EU knowledge (I haven't read the books but I knew that she featured in later novels, fun as it would have been if Isard's Revenge were more like the Hand of Thrawn...) but I did feel it was fairly obvious she wasn't really dead.

In general I did really enjoy this, because I am a sucker for the "Good Guys Go Rogue" plot, even when it's poorly justified/too little too late/totally random. See also: my love of the Jedi going rogue in later LOTF. I thought the structure of the book was a good one to build tension while still differentiating it from The Krytos Trap, although I think Krytos is probably the best book of the series. I don't think this book was quite as un-ensemble as the first two but it certainly wasn't as expansive as the previous one.

I'm mostly all right with Corran as a character, but I do find myself entertained by your dislike of him, Jeff! I'm reminded of conversations I used to have about Battlestar Galactica when I was the only person mystified at how everyone thought Adama was awesome instead of a self-centred, arrogant jerk. And you certainly raise some fair points... I think I forgive him a bit more in some ways because Corran and Iella are already close friends. If she was someone he'd just met over the course of these novels, I'd probably find it more obnoxious, but I felt a little more secure in Iella's ability to tell him to shut up if she needed to and after the whole "everyone-knows-everyone-in-the-fringe" aspects of Mirax and Booster and Wedge and Tycho and Winter all, like, having connections both via the smuggler's fringe and the Rebellion, it's a nice turnabout for Corran to know Iella independently too. But as I said, I don't really disagree with your criticism.

To be honest, I thought Bror Jace came off as a bit of a jerk. Firstly I agree that bringing him back really doesn't do much except undercut his previous death. And the fact that he was planning on faking his death ANYWAY kind of...makes him seem like a bit of a jerk. He was going to let all his squadmates think he was toast even if there hadn't been a genuine attempt on his life and I was a bit...blah about it, to be honest.

I'm torn on Erisi, basically along the lines of the question. On the one hand I did like the way it was fairly underplayed throughout a lot of the final conflict, and the way she got a death that was really quite unceremonious. On the other hand, I found her character, in general, to be fairly stock and her romantic conflict with Mirax and Corran to be irksome. Less, I think, out of indignance at the thought of such a plotline but more because, while I don't share it to the same degree, I do share some of Jeff's irritation with Corran's arrogance and self-assuredness. Now, also to a degree, Stackpole makes Corran aware of his flaws. However, adding in stories like this kind of don't help since it starts looking like Stackpole's just inventing chicks to find Corran soooo dreamy.

As to the romance, I was largely okay with it too. It felt like a believable impulsive wedding, especially given the unplanned proposal essentially on the eve of events that might see both of them dead and people do crazy things at times like that. But I do agree that in general this is something SW could do better with. I mean, not always. Han and Leia dated for four years before marrying. Similarly, while we haven't seen much of it, it's implied that Jaina and Jag were back together since shortly after the end of LOTF and it's now two or three years later?

But Wedge/Iella and ESPECIALLY Luke/Mara really are hilarious candidates for the SW Speed Romance Prize.

 

Whilst I note the smilie.....

That's cause he was awesome. Stasi is pretty much the EU equivelant. Ultimately BSG decided to make its military commanders be less than likeable, yet they never claim to be perfect either. Instead, for the most part, Tigh and Adama try to look after their troops as far as they can, despite the lethal business they're involved. Some of the points Wedge makes to the Wraiths in XW5 are similar in style. The aim for all 3 is to ensure their people stay alive, you can't do that by sugar-coating the nature of warfare.

(I found myself loathing Apollo and Starbuck far more by the end. Although, most of the reason I liked Adama in BSG is due to this: How often do you see a quietly-spoken, glasses-wearing guy in command in the military?)

I now return you to the regular topic with this:

Does anyone consider it strange that such epic events should take place in a paperback? There were no hardbacks for the XW books, yet now the tendency is for the big stuff to be done in hardbacks.

 

Based on the significance of the events in the X-wing books, Wedge's Gamble was the one that should have been a hardcover, given that it featured the NR taking Coruscant.

I'll probably chime in more on this thread later since Bacta War was my favorite Star Wars book all the way until Star By Star.

 

Well, Stazi's a jackass too. He's a badass jackass, but he's still a jackass.

 

But why should the big stuff happen in hardbacks?

 

I wasn't saying that it should. My wallet would certainly appreciate it if they only did paperbacks. I was just saying that if that was the deciding factor, the capture of Coruscant was a bigger deal than what happened in The Bacta War.

 

Oh I don't know, say to fans to pick between:

Fall of the capital of the galaxy to the New Republic

AND

12 X-Wings versus Super Star Destroyer

And the sheer iconic imagery of the latter may very well win it!

 

Jeez, you order the execution of one Mon Cal traitor, and suddenly you are the jackass.

--Adm. Nick

 

No, it's more the incomprehensible jackassery of the protecting-his-enemies-and-nearly-firing-on-his-allies-just-to-piss-off-his-allies thing. Stazi's a badass, and he's doing well for the GA and standing up for a good cause . . . but he's also an incredibly self-righteous egomaniac who throws his weight around just to jerk his allies' chains and satisfy his own sense of moral superiority.

It's not that he's necessarily a terrible guy . . . but why are people praising Stazi for the same qualities they claim to condemn in Fel?

As a point of comparison, and to bring it back on topic, I can't see Wedge doing the same thing. Objecting to the threat to fire on the escape pods, yes, but not being stupid enough to suddenly think the mutineer is a good man, or being enough of a self-important jerk to interpose his own ships and protect the enemy, just to jerk around his allies. He's more patient, more intelligent, and more diplomatic than that.

 

Now that isone damned fine topic for discussion. I have my own theories on this, but this is not the right place for me to bring them up.

I don't want becca laying down the smack on my for hijacking her thread.

--Adm. Nick

 

Then kick off a new thread Nick....

 

Curse you, interesting yet off-topic tangents!

To address the issues raised at least slightly before forcing myself back on topic, I like that Hav brings up Stazi. I'd completely agree. I think for me the line is usually when I perceive a disconnect between the intention of the text and the way the character comes across. Which sort of ties in with me being absolutely fine with Corran's less admirable qualities except when I think that Stackpole has forgotten about then, as opposed to Corran. Similarly, I enjoyed Adama a great deal throughout the first two season of Battlesun Odyssey, it was only during later seasons when I felt that the show lost sight of that balance that I came to dislike him.

Stazi is an interesting case but I'm a little behind on Legacy - I would definitely enjoy a Nick-led thread about him though!

And Havac definitely brings up a good point about Wedge. In fact, I couldn't see Corran behaving like that either and he can be pretty well swayed by his sense of personal vendetta, at least during this part of his life. In fact, thinking about it, I'm struggling to think of any major SW character I could see pulling that kind of thing outside of Fey'lya... Which then also brings up the fact that when it came to the crunch, Fey'lya didn't shrink from military action even when it cost him the ultimate price. Perhaps they're more similar than I'd previously thought, just at different ends of the military/political spectrum.

As to the hardback issue, you're right, Ben, that usually Big Events take place in hardbacks. Honestly, I'm not a huge hardback fan and wish that it were more paperback exclusive for the sake of my wallet.

I think, though, with their shorter series, Bantam gave us a lot more hardbacks in general? Although Del Rey are following suit now with FOTJ in hardback only.

I do appreciate the aesthetic value of a hardback book, but it does always frustrate me that it's never sold as a luxury item, like a deluxe DVD set but rather as the first run, forcing paperbackers to wait or pay three times as much. I know that the publishing industry really can't afford to do otherwise, but...it always annoys me.

And now I think I've managed to go off on TWO different tangents!

 

Far too many subplots in Bacta War; Karrde, Elscol, Tal'dira, Sixtus, etc. We needed none of these people really.

Most idiotic of all was the decision to return Bror Jace to life. Stackpole is certainly the leading resurrector of all EU time; I've lost count of how many times he's killed Corran. I stopped caring at around the third one, I think.

 

Looking back at the X-Wing novels and this one in particular, I'm wondering whether there's any way such books could be written today. I typically defend the prequel trilogy, and I like how they turned out having a different focus than the original movies. Still, it's obvious nobody can go back to a pre-prequel point of view.

This is not only the story of a movie side character (Wedge) who's fleshed out tremendously; it's the story of what's essentially a SW RPG character. Corran is not only Stackpole's alter ego or pet character or whatever you want to call it, he's the height of the "make your own SW adventure" idea. Both him and Kyle in the Jedi Knight game (and maybe your self-named X-Wing game character which might have been called Horn if you might have been called Stackpole) are prime examples of leaving Luke Skywalker's story alone and shwoing another hero's story. Maybe not exactly a Campbell Hero's Journey, but the basics are also the skeleton of every adventure story, so it's similar enough no matter how hard they tried.

Today, there's nothing much to write about but Jedi who do not have to discover their heritage and clones who somehow share the same backstory. Back in the day, you had Rebels or Scoundrels as heroes. Which was very true to the old movies. Rebels and Scoundrels might have gotten their prestige class by becoming a Jedi; today, they either are Jedi or they are not. That's obviously how the PT works, and it's good that they stick with that model; but much has been said about how Luke's Order became heavily influenced by prequel Jedi, just as the Legacy comic and all post-Jedi Knight games owe much of their visuals to those movies.

I think it was rewarding seeing Corran's story "come to an end" with The Bacta War, and to get some closure for the other characters as well (especially Tycho). When reading it, I honestly didn't see the obvious trapdoor that allowed for Isard to come back, but I guess I wasn't so cynical when it came to storytelling back then.

I'm not so keen on the Rogues-go-rogue story, though. I feel like the whole setup is going out of its way to show a disconnect between leaders and footsoldiers, with the Rogues doing what's the right thing to do by themselves when there's no plausible reason why this story couldn't have been told as some ultra-secret commando mission (which is what they had been doing all along and continued to do with Wraith Squadron). And they get their backing anyway. It didn't add anything special for me, and it undermines the whole idea of the New Republic as the heroic rebels. In that regard, it's maybe even the downfall of the Republic as well; with authors deciding early on (and with Zahn creating Fey'lya in the very first NR book) to show a not-so-heroic official leadership instead of sticking to Mothma, Ackbar and the three Generals Dodonna, Rieekan and Madine, they created proving grounds for the main characters instead of a secure frame to branch out into the galaxy.

Regarding some of the tangents...

...the way I remember it, main character novels were released as hardcovers, and no matter how important the event, sidestories featuring small niche characters were almost never seen fit to carry a hardcover. The only one I can think of is I, Jedi, and not only does this have Luke Skywalker on the cover, it also takes the Corran-as-RPG-like-identification-character to the maximum. A guy with a lightsaber and an Artoo - it almost makes the basic SW constellation appear like a fantasy novel staple. Interestingly, NJO intended doing hardcovers for main character stories with the paperbacks depicting niche stories that expanded the main course of the war, and I'm pretty sure that they originally signed Stackpole on to do Dark Tide as bona fide Rogue Squadron novels before they decided to have the main characters prominently featured in every story. You can't really compare the original X-Wing series with the climax of Rep Com, where the general series buzz and the trademark title Order 66 made it possible to cash in on the fourth book. Having had Ba

 

Yeah, I think this is the book where is really seemed that Corran had to end every thought with, "And when my dad died. . ."

 

Well, here we are at the end of the first arc of the X-wing novels.


Corran/Mirax - Like Iella said to Corran in I, Jedi, he tends to follow his head more than his heart/feelings. That complicated matters for Tycho, and that was a major stumbling block in their relationship. Fortunately, he managed to make up for them in the previous book. And you cannot think about them without recalling how Booster and Corran first met. Now you know that Huff and Gavin Darklighter were wishing they had caught that on camera. Gavin would have shown that to the other Rogues, and Huff could have made a fortune selling copies of that encounter to CorSec officers, smugglers, and even people Corran put in jail. The latter two would have bought the copies just to see if Booster got a few good hits in on Corran. Corran/Mirax proceeded along without too many bunps, though Booster proved to be an irritant. Then again, he's acting like any father would, so that shouldn't be a surprise. The issue between him and Corran's father, though, added another wrinkle. But that got smoothed out at the end. As Booster said, he had no problems with his daughter being with a Rogue. He just had a problem with her being with CorSec.


The smugglers - we can't start there without talking about Mirax. She used her smuggling skills during the mission to take down Coruscant by procuring supplies. She did that again with Huff Darklighter, and she impressed him. I believe he said, "Young lady, if you're ever looking for work, come see me. You have skills I can use." Then we have Booster, and he started off by applying his business administrative skills in running the space station. By doing that, he generated capital and even managed to "hire" smugglers for the big plan at the end. Then we have Talon Karrde. For 2/3 of the Thrawn Trilogy, he said he wanted to remain neutral in the fight between the Empire and the New Republic. Now one might say that there's a continuity issue here, since the X-wing novels were written post Thrawn Trilogy, and Karrde was working with Wedge to take down Isard. Fortunately, the problem was avoided by driving across two points. First, since the Rogues resigned, they're an indepent group allied with but not part of the New Republic. So Karrde was dealing with a group of independents or freelancers. Second, he probably didn't like Isard being in control of the bacta any more than Mara liked the idea of Thrawn starting a new round of Clone Wars by using the Wayland facility. Despite this, we get to see Karrde in his usual role - the polite, gentlemanly smuggler. We also learned a few things, like how he could actually be surprised.


The Imperials - Isard continued to show that she was a woman who loved being in control and knew what she was doing. That's true insofar as it came to the bacta and using it to strangle the New Republic and the galaxy at large while trying to gain support and allegiance with the Imperial factions. But I don't think she was ever incompetent in the way you're suggesting, beccatoria. As I recall, I think it was Joak Drysso who had his own chain of thought on the matter - using bacta to gain support of the Imperial factions while using the Lusankya to take over the major shipyards of Corellia, Kuat, and Sluis Van. That would have been far more effective. Isard might have considered that, but the Rogues began to take up more and more of her attention. I don't think she got obsessed with the Rogues until after Yonka defected.

Vorru was the rational voice for Isard. He reminded her he was in a position to see them wrest Coruscant away from her, and if she doesn't do something about it, they would do the same to Thyferra. Through his eyes, I think we got the impression that the Xucphra corporation acted a lot like the high-and-mighty classes on Kuat and Coruscant - high-classed snobs who believed the world or the galaxy revolved around them. And I think we can gain a bit of sympathy for Vorru when he thought, "The moment I start to think like them is

 

Excellent and insightful post, Grey1. Well said.

 

Grey1, I agree with Halfie, that was a great post. I certainly agree that there is a real out-of-universe slide that means we rarely get novels like this.

I don't want to say never, because one could argue that Coruscant Nights represents a somewhat similar story arc, but even there, the worldview represented is...forever changed by the existence of the prequels. I say that without intending any particular judgment either way; I'm not the greatest PT fan and I dislike the retconning of the NJO into the OJO, but equally, I acknowledge that there are many fans out there who love those movies best, and I'll freely admit to anyone who cares to hear it that Yoda: Dark Rendezvous is, in my opinion, one of the best EU novels there is, so...good stuff comes out of that era too. But it's different, and...despite Yoda's claims, you can't really unlearn what you have learned. You can't go back to how it was, whether or not you like what you have better.

But what you said that really resonated with me was about the NR becoming more compromised. Now, I already said that I enjoyed the plotline because I like stories like that - I also take your criticism of it. I'm more forgiving of Zahn's decision to put a Fey'lya amongst the pigeons, mainly because I don't know what else they could have done. But that's also not to say it's a solution.

In many ways, the NR has the same problem as the concept of Luke Skywalker. You can't keep it idealistic and completely heroic and always winning forever because once it's the dominant power in the galaxy/the biggest hero, that lacks drama. I mean, yes, there are always ways around that issue, but it IS an issue. You can pull a trick like the Vong, and just introduce a bigger, badder bad guy once or twice, but eventually even that gets old and starts to cheapen the original stories.

In the same way I think there's a genuine, heartbreaking, potentially amazing story in Luke Skywalker's struggle to be the Young Hero when in fact he is the Wise Master, I think there's a genuine, heartbreaking, potentially amazing story in the New Republic's struggle to function as a government that requires it sacrifice much of its heroic Rebel ideals in the face of practical reality. If you want the New Republic to be nothing but white hat heroes, you have to set them up against black hat villains, and then either you go for a small villain which will eventually be undramatic and disappointing, or a large villain in which case you start wondering what happened to the Rebellion winning. If you choose neither, then you have to start playing in greyer areas.

The problem, to my mind, in both instances is that I think the stories often touch on these issues, but frequently fail to either strongly address them or firmly come down on a side and have an opinion - to acknowledge the elephant in the room, as it were. And I end up uncertain how they're trying to portray Luke, and wondering if I'm supposed to think the NR is kewl like the Zahnpire or tragically falling apart.

Ally as usual, thanks for your detailed thoughts!

The main issue I wanted to respond to was Isard. I do understand your arguments for her not being incompetent and I mostly agree with them. Certainly one of the things I found refreshing about her early on was that her plans genuinely seemed to be working and when they did not it was usually down to incompetent underlings, but not in a way that made Isard herself look incompetent for assigning those tasks to said underlings.

I think what I was somewhat disappointed with was, even though a scenery-chewing grudge-holding villain who obsessively tries to destroy her nemesis, losing more and more control as she does so, is always great fun, especially if you get to watch it on a movie screen, I kind of...didn't quite understand why she suddenly became so much more obsessed with the Rogues than her ultimate goal. In this particular novel, the very fact she NEEDED a reality-check from Vorru felt a little odd. In earlier novels, she would assi

 

I think I understand what you're saying beccatoria. If you recall, at the beginning of the novel, she was very much focused on the goal, like you said. When it came to Rogue Squadron, she dismissed them out of hand because she didn't believe they could pose much of a threat to her. Against a VicStar and an ImpStar, a squadron of X-wings poses a great threat. Against the Lusankya - that's a different story. However, Vorru tried to give her a reality check and insisted they needed to be dealt with immediately because he realized that the NR and possibly the Imperial factions would dance to her tune, but not Rogue Squadron. I think she developed the mindset that sooner or later, Rogue Squadron would cross paths with her forces, and they would be crushed.

Things began to unravel for her when the Rogues took out Convarion and the Corrupter. When Yonka left, that's when she decided to stop ignoring Rogue Squadron and force them to dance to her tune. And this was about the same time Vorru realized Isard was going to lose and Erisi decided if things continued this way, Isard would end up destroying the world she loved. But instead of doing anything to stop her, they planned to jump ship. With Vorru, that's not much of a surprise. But Erisi...

One more thing, and this might seem off-topic a little. You said Isard was no Daala, but she was no Thrawn. True, though I think she leaned more on the Thrawn side of the scale, if you catch my meaning. However, th