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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT 4 different Imperial Uniform colors, or just lighting tricks?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by SheaHublin, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. SheaHublin

    SheaHublin Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2008
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Along the same lines as the Praji Insignia colors thread, I've been meaning to ask for a while how many Imperial uniform colors are there in ANH? Well, it sort of depends on how you look at the lighting effects in a particular scene. There's more than just the Olive Gray, Black, and White uniforms- there's also Light-Gray/Dark-White. The screengrabs above are the best one that really displays all of these different colors. I'd like to ask if anyone else sees the same, or if those "brown" uniforms worn by Tarkin, Cass, and Motti are really just the regular Olive Gray uniforms seen in a different light. I personally would have to say that they aren't, but that would mean that their actors wore different uniforms in different scenes? Doesn't seem to really make sense, as at other angles in the same Conference Room scene they have normal Olive Gray colored uniforms. But if so, how is it that Molock ALSO has a different uniform color that clearly isn't the same as Olive Gray nor the Black or White uniforms- at the very least it makes for a 4th uniform color that is a light gray/dark white. Unless of course the uniforms are the same gray color and the lighting is just that magical.

    There's one other scene where this 4th Light Gray/Dark White uniform color can be seen- by the turbolifts. It's worn by the Sydd Wragg Officer, and is NOT the same as the White "ISB" uniforms worn by Yularen and his deputy who pass by the exact same spot, and therefore the same lighting, moments before. It's a darker color than those, but also lighter than the usual Olive Gray uniform, which is also worn by another Imperial right next to him. Basically, Molock and the Sydd Wragg Officer both wear a rarer, 4th color of Imperial Uniform that is a lighter shade of Gray than the normal Imperial uniform, but which is also not an "ISB" uniform. Does anybody else see this, or is it just me being fooled by the lighting? I'm really curious to hear what others think about this!
     
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  2. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    SheaHublin wrote

    It's worn by the Sydd Wragg Officer, and is NOT the same as the White "ISB" uniforms worn by Yularen and his deputy who pass by the exact same spot, and therefore the same lighting, moments before. It's a darker color than those, but also lighter than the usual Olive Gray uniform, which is also worn by another Imperial right next to him.

    =D=

    Good eyes, congratulations! You can claim to be the first finder of another Imperial uniform variation no one had been aware of previously.

    Frankly, at first I thought that the color only seemed darker because the background (elevator interiors) are brighter, but the Force is with you. Not so long ago this other BTS video from the making of ANH showed up:



    As I mentioned in the Commander Praji rank plaque thread, we can see two Imperials with these kind of uniforms at around 6:50'. Because of your suggestion I paid special attention to the uniform's brightness this time. Because both of them path the same spot (and illumination) I think it's rather obvious, that we are looking - indeed - at two different uniforms.
     
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  3. SheaHublin

    SheaHublin Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Ah good, I'm not just seeing things that aren't really there. That you see the 4th uniform color is all the assurance I need :)

    I saw that video, too- it also has some clearer views of a few other Imperials that we hadn't had before. A third 6-tab Rank Insignia ISB man, for example. It's a shame the colors are off and we can't tell exactly what they are on that particular Insignia.
     
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  4. Avnar

    Avnar Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Love threads like this! :cool: I'm off to find a 5th!
     
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  5. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    ^ Happy hunting! Although I'm not that optimistic you'll be able to find more, as @SheaHublin's find has a somewhat accidental nature (thanks to his persistence) which could only be backed by the recent find of this genuine BTS video.

    I had already reported on the Imperial Mos Eisley spaceport uniforms:

    [​IMG]

    Because the Mos Eisley Cantina 'smoker' is wearing a DH-17 blaster pistol along with an Imperial uniform I'm pretty sure that he belongs to Mos Eisley spaceport security.

    In the case of the "real" Walrus Man (John Mollo Cantina characters sketch)

    [​IMG]

    I'm pretty sure now that he was wearing the uniform originally designed for the Mos Eisley harbormaster Montross (who confronted Solo in the SW script from January 1, 1976 before that scene was dropped and replaced with him confronting Jabba instead):

    54. INT. PIRATE STARSHIP – MAIN PASSAGE – ENTRY
    An Imperial bureaucrat named MONTROSS and two local policemen are waiting in the main entry as Han Solo enters.
    MONTROSS
    Cood morning captain. Preparing to leave are you?
    HAN
    Listen Montross I’m clean on this trip. You can search if you want to but I’m only taking passengers. Now if that’s it, I’ve got a lot to check out before I leave.
    MONTROSS
    You aren’t going anywhere for awhile, captain.
    HAN
    What!
    MONTROSS
    The spaceport’s closed down until further notice by Imperial edict and because of your past record, captain, I’ve decided to stay aboard until it’s opened again.
    HAN
    How long will that be?
    MONTROSS
    Until they’ve searched the area, the rest of the day probably.
    HAN
    What’s this all about anyway?
    MONTROSS
    It’s an Imperial matter. None of my concern, I just have to see to it that no one in this section takes off.
    Han throws up his hands in disgust.

    (For some reason the Montross scene and the Jabba scene were probably mixed up in the early archives, which could explain why harbormaster Montross showed up in the Marvel ANH Comic instead of Jabba, i.e. Declan Mulholland)

    Back to the OT.

    I had to sleep a couple of nights over the two different "light" uniforms present in the BTS video, the scenes in front of the Death Star elevator and last but not least during the Death Star conference:

    [​IMG]

    "light" uniform to the left, "white" uniform to the right, and staff officer Cass in the middle.

    I never truly bought that that conjectural EU notion that the "white" uniform belongs to the "Imperial Security Bureau", just because the actors were wearing black regulation caps in the elevator scene, because the Imperial engineers that brought the scanning equipment aboard the Falcon were also wearing black regulation caps.
    Hence I always believed they belonged to the Imperial Engineering Corps, and I insist that it would be plain illogical and stupid NOT to have the Death Star's staff engineer present during the Death Star conference in case technical questions might come up.
    Add to this that Rogue One (IMHO correctly) suggested with Director Krennic's "white" uniform an affiliation rather to the Engineering Corps than the ISB.

    But thanks to SheaHublin's find we can now all have our cakes and eat these, too, i.e. the "light" uniform does belong to the Engineering Corps while the "white" one does belong to the ISB.

    As for the easy to mix up appearance of the ISB uniform it could be intentional, so that ISB officers can actually listen to personnel conversations without being immediately identified as members of the ISB. ;)
     
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  6. Avnar

    Avnar Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Lt. Hija

    Do you prescribe to the theory that Yularen replaced Krennic... ? (I don't read any EU)
     
  7. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    In the From A Certain Point of View anthology - a point is made of how the empty seat at the table is Krennic's (so, Yularen is not in his seat).

    In Star Wars Rebels - Kallus is ISB, and Yularen appears in Season 3 - a point is made of how Kallus is his pupil.
     
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  8. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Avnar

    I don't take the EU that serious to make an educated comment. I'd rather like somebody, anybody, to interview John Mollo (costume designer and creator) about the different uniforms and what he and/or George Lucas intended these to represent.

    But as I said, I can accept the concept of ISB, "now" that a staff engineer familiar with the Death Star sits at that table, too.
     
  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    For another example of "pale grey-brown uniform, possible engineer" scene - there is the Death Star's arrival at Alderaan:

    https://starwarsscreencaps.com/star-wars-episode-iv-a-new-hope-1977/37/

    the man who comes up to Tarkin on the overbridge, shortly before Leia is brought in, fits quite well.

    EDIT: after googling it - I find references to this being Syd Wragg, dated 2007.
     
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  10. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Iron_lord

    Thanks for mentioning him, as a matter of fact I wonder if it's the same actor with the same uniform we see later in front of the elevator:

    [​IMG]

    What I'd love to know and learn is the unheard information he passes to Tarkin, especially since it's Admiral Motti just seconds later who formally announces "We entered the Alderaan System".

    Therefore I'm rather confident it's an engineer who informs Tarkin that the hyperdrive performed flawlessly, anything else would be inappropriate in the chain of command, IMHO, i.e. it's Motti's prerogative to tell Tarkin that they arrived at their destination.

    IRL, however, probability is high that the actor said something like "It's an honour to play on the same stage with you, Mr. Cushing" or else. :p
     
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  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I think the guy who talked to Tarkin had longer, browner curled hair- at least, it looked to me like the curls were visible in that shot, sticking out from under the cap. Whereas turbolift guy looks to have shorter, straighter, greyer hair. I'm told Syd Wragg also drives one of the transports on Yavin- possibly in the scene with Leia and Willard, or the scene with Red Leader and Biggs? Do his features match both turbolift guy and Overbridge guy, or just one of them?
     
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  12. Avnar

    Avnar Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Iron_lord

    Sorry to ask in here (I don't want to go off topic) but it's uniform related - I know he works for the Advanced Weapons Program but Is Krennic part of the ISB...? Is AWP a branch of it?

    Sorry, I'm obsessed by the Imperials in the white uniform [face_dunno]I spent last night counting as many as I could from RO and ANH...I got to at least 7 different guys haha
     
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    While it isn't part of the ISB (it's part of ISB's "sister group", Military Intelligence, the Advanced Weapons Research division's facilities, are guarded by the ISB. Apart from Krennic, the vast majority of characters in Rogue One in white uniforms with black caps, are ISB members, as is Yularen from ANH - according to newcanon sources - visual guides, the SW.com site, etc.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Advanced_Weapons_Research
     
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  14. SheaHublin

    SheaHublin Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Man, what is up with the quote posts function not working???

    Anyway, just to note The Sydd Wragg Officer is same guy seen speaking to Tarkin on the Overbridge AND seen walking by the turbolift cluster wearing the Light Gray tunic with the 3red/3orange unique Rank Insignia. Same uniform in both scenes, too. Apart from this character, Sydd Wragg ALSO was one of the Rebels driving the truck on Yavin, and apparently also a Stormtrooper. A LOT of the extras seen on the Death Star also had different roles in other scenes in the film. For example, Charlie Gray not only portrayed General Molock, he can also bee seen among the seated crowd of Rebels in the briefing scene. Yularen's fellow ISB Officer (who in my personal headcanon is Dezix from the Death Star Technical Companion) is portrayed by John Ketteringham, who also portrayed one of the Rebel pilots: Gold Three/Ryle Torsin. Basically, there's a ton of Extras re-use throughout the film.
     
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  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Fair enough - maybe the "hair difference" is a red herring and it's not as different as it seemed at the time. Would be interesting if that guy actually got named - considering so many other Death Star crewers did.

    Tarkin's insignia had a 3 red 3 orange component - the bottom half of it. Perhaps, like in ROTS, double row insignia is actually two separate ones, one right above the other, rather than a single one.
     
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  16. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    They seem to work for me. But if you are continuing to have problems there is a technical questions thread in the Communications forum HERE.