main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT A Better Continuity Between Prequels and the Original Trilogy

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Kyris Cavisek, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. beedubaya

    beedubaya Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014

    This is what should have happened according to the Return of the Jedi novelization. Per the novelization, Anakin did not know Padme was pregnant when he left. This makes the most sense as it would require significant changes to the story of the prequels for Padme to live if Anakin knew she was pregnant. Darth Vader cannot go into the OT knowing he has living children.

    I think at some point during Revenge of the Sith, Anakin should have left Padme. Of course, his fear of losing her greatly contributed to his fall, so Palpatine would have had to take a different approach to draw him to the dark side. I think giving Anakin extreme arrogance and lust for power (more than what the light side had to offer) and unwavering loyalty to the Republic could have been a catalyst. Palpatine could have still played the "Jedi don't trust you" card.
     
    DarthCricketer likes this.
  2. whostheBossk

    whostheBossk Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2002
    Very interesting to see all the scenes we wished were put in to the trilogies to help tie them together better. Obviously Lucas didnt make Padme survive for the reasons stated and developed new storylines and villians as he went along. But "wow" if we had these scenes put in originally, we would have had a better film,as long as it would be done right.
    If things would have started earlier (see TPM re-write thread pg.4) with the Clone Wars at the end of Ep. I with Anikan being older, by AOTC they marry, she hides pregnancy during war, then Leia could have been born earlier in script and remembered her mother who could have then died in same fashion in ROTS.

    Also having Dooku a Jedi secretly starting his own order with Sifo Dyas, creating a clone army all in TPM, would have greatly enhanced the mystery of what is going on with the Jedi and Republic. Meanwhile the Sith with Maul and Sidious are pulling the strings and plotting to take over the army and the Republic.
     
  3. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Putting Alderaan in the place of Naboo seems pointless to me, besides making the galaxy smaller putting the daughter on Vader on her mothers home planet, in the custody of one of her best friends, that is a key player in galactic politics to boot just doesn't make sense.

    Now I know what some people might say, placing Luke with his family on Tatooine was similar, but it is also completely different. Besides being a backwater planet half the galaxy has never heard of, it is also the one place Vader would never in a million billion years actually want to return to.

    I prefer making Naboo more distinct from Alderaan, it is more isolated in a sense, making the plot of episode one work, as if it was a core planet being blockaded you know the Republic would respond in a heartbeat. It also makes Leias adoption a bit more inconspicuous, in that she is not returning to her mothers home planet but was just fortunately adopted by an ally of her mother, and the Jedi. The Emperor would have no reason what so ever to suspect she is not from Alderaan, let alone really the Daughter of Skywalker.

    Plus I placing Padme and Palpatine as random bureaucrats in Alderaans government, I feel, diminishes their importance in it. I like that Padme is a Queen (Elect) and future senator, It makes her feel significant, and that since Bail is Viceroy of Alderaan she can not be leader of that planet, it makes sense to create a completely new planet for her to rule.

    Plus I feel like the continuity is perfect as it is. With the Tantive IV as the first post mentioned, and everyone ending episode III exactly where they are in IV it flows almost perfectly between the two. (Mores so than VII I would say)
    I wouldn't change a thing honestly it is without a doubt perfect In my opinion.

    I have no illusion that someone will try and pick apart and refute my argument but I stand by it I genuinely prefer it the way it is.
     
  4. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    "Just because" seems to be their answer.

    It's where they accept the one with little question but the other they have nothing but questions for.

    All these years later and we still get the "How come Owen didn't remember 3PO?" and "Why did Obi-Wan not remember the droids?" "Where do Leia's memories of Padme come from?" etc etc.
     
  5. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I wish TPM showed Anakin constructing "the Skywalker saber". ANH and TFA make that lightsaber seem important to the Skywalker line.
     
    AshiusX likes this.
  6. 357hermon

    357hermon Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2016
    -Darth Maul for all three episodes and no Dooku or Grievous.
    -No Gungans or Jar Jar.
    -Qui Gonn stays alive until at least II.
    -Anakin is found older in I.
    -He becomes Vader by the end of II.
    -Vader's intensity and evil is witnessed the entire movie in III.
    -No crying or horrible romance unless those actors can do it.
    -Alderaan in place of Naboo.
    -No Wookies until IV.
    -Tantive IV exists long before IV.
    -Episode III, we see Luke in youth on Tatooine particularly blasting Womp rats.
    -No childish droids.
    -Palpatine's name isn't heard as such. It would have been smarter to name him something elusive.
    -Yoda remains a puppet and is very old yet silly as he was in V.
    -Less CGI that dominated the screen. If IV, V, VI, VII have continuity of ships, I,II, and III should have the same or very similar ships.

    I could go on forever.
     
  7. oierem

    oierem Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    That lightsaber was just one of the many lightsabers Anakin had during the PT (actually, he only gets it in Sith, if I'm not mistaken). And it was lost when Vader cut off Luke's hand in Empire.
    How that lightsaber appeared out of nowhere in TFA (and why that lightsaber is so importat to begin with) is beyond me.
     
  8. beedubaya

    beedubaya Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014


    This is one thing I would have liked to see. The Clone Army uniforms should have been the same or very similar to the stormtrooper uniforms from the OT. Also, the ships constructed for the Grand Army of the Republic should have been the star destroyers and tie fighters that we know. Why Lucas didn't do this is beyond me. I would have loved to have seen Darth Vader's TIE Advanced x1 used as Anakin's personal ship in Revenge of the Sith.

    In the prequels, Lucas threw in too many ties to the OT where they seemed forced and did not tie them together where it would have made sense.
     
  9. JoshieHewls

    JoshieHewls Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2013
    I mean...the things you just cited are literally meant to be precursors to what we were familiar with in the OT. They were recognizable, but different in order to show a progression. When I first saw the clone troopers I was shocked--I knew these guys were eventually going to become the stormtroopers I knew from the OT just by sight (but of course that kind of changed with reverting to conscripts in the OT, but I digress). Same thing with the Republic cruisers--just by sight I knew I was looking at a precursor of the Star Destroyers.

    If the Republic just used the SDs that we knew and the clone troopers looked just like regular storm troopers, that would have taken the fun out of the whole thing. It would have just been OT designs 2.0.
     
  10. AshiusX

    AshiusX Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2016
    I actually that like the fact that Republic doesn't have the same aesthetic philosophy as the Empire. The cold and monolithic look of the Empire wouldn't suit it or the Jedi who were suppose to be the guardians of it. The Republic is suppose to be vibrant and free. I for one believe that the Clone troopers have a visual design to them than storm troopers. Clone troopers just tend to speak more elegance than the designs of the stormtrooper. But in TCW, you can see bit of pieces of the Empire's visual look coming to fruition.
     
  11. CarboniteSolo

    CarboniteSolo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2013
    I like these ideas, I thought the same thing for Naboo/Alderaan, it should have been Alderaan only. That way, when it was destroyed, you could be like that was where Qui-Gon died and the Gungans had that battle.

    What should have happened was Anakin, Padme and Obi-wan, all should have been around the same age, even going so far as to a possible love triangle, or at least Anakin would have thought so, and been part of one of the main catalyst for Anakin to hate Obi-wan especially toward the end of Episode II as he marries Padme.

    As far as having just one ship throughout the Prequel trilogy, I don't think a shiny spaceship would have cut it. The Falcon had a personality, sometimes it would come through, while other times it wouldn't. It was old, but it saved their ass once or twice.

    The shiny spaceship that the queen had, wasn't very special, except it was the ship where R2 came from, and that was it. Nothing special there.
     
  12. CaptainSuchandSuch

    CaptainSuchandSuch Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    I would actually pin the blame for this issue more on VII. Considering that it was set decades later, it should have had more evolved ship designs, not palette swaps of the OT ships.
     
  13. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    That doesn't forward the story. It's not about Maul.

    Irrelevant. Then they are simply replaced by characters who do the same thing in the story.

    That doesn't forward the story. It's not about Qui-Gon

    At most he would be 12. He was never going to be 19 like Luke or Rey.

    The PT is about becoming Vader...

    We get Vader in the second half of ROTS. That is more than enough and the armored Vader's story picks up in ANH.

    They did it beautifully. Fans who don't want that were never going to be happy. They simply seem to want a monster Vader which was never the case.

    Doesn't help the story at all.

    So you don't like R2 or 3PO then?

    It already isn't in ROTJ. They story doesn't acknowledge they are the same person until ROTS.

    The PT is before that and a puppet can barely do anything. It takes away from the story.

    The CGI domination of TFA is more than the PT which is a practical effects extravaganza the likes of which will never be seen again because you really can do it all in CG now. You couldn't then.

    Think how sad it is that TFA shows no imagination and depends on what came before. Why would you want the PT to be the same? Showing the evolution is far better than being stuck in a dead end.

    Isn't that awesome? I mean think how much this all upsets you. It just goes to show how right they did things. If everything was nice and easy and comfortable then it wouldn't be Star Wars.
     
  14. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
  15. beedubaya

    beedubaya Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014

    I doubt the First Order had the resources at its disposal for a full fleet upgrade that the Empire did when it moved from the Republic-era ships to the OT-era equipment.
     
  16. Andy Wylde

    Andy Wylde Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2014
    See this is all part of a problem that people have when it comes to the PT is that they wanted more of the same. The same being more of the OT in the PT. This is made even more evident with the success of TFA. Which was just more of the same as the OT. Now there isn't really anything wrong with that per se to an individual, but it subtracts more than it adds.

    I love that the PT brought more life into the SW saga. I personally enjoy variety and new things. I was happy I didn't get served up some nostalgia **** sandwich. I mean is all the new SW films going forward are just going to be nostalgia and call back fests? I hope not. It seems to be that way.

    And over the years it seems that people look at the PT as some check list that was supposed to showcase all the things mentioned in the OT. Well it wasn't. Obi Wan and Anakin being "good friends?" Well they were friends. But some just didn't think what was shown was "good enough" Well no matter what was shown, I am willing to bet it would have never been enough. So for those of us that saw it was good enough, well it works. I didn't need to see Obi Wan and Anakin patting each other on the tush and high fiving each other and playing air guitar like they Bill and Ted. What constitutes a good friend is different to each and every individual person.

    Leia remembering her mother? Well I feel that in ROTJ that was an odd question to ask because as far as me the viewer, I never seen Leia up to that point acknowledge that she was adopted. I knew from Ben telling Luke. But I never seen Leia acknowledge at any point on the screen. So her memories could have been of anyone. Or I also attribute it her force sensitivities. Force users can see past and future events. But all in all for me it isn't a big deal because after Luke asks her the question it was glossed over as soon as she answered it.

    Anakin being older when introduced? Well he was introduced young for a reason. To show his attachment issues with his mother. It worked very well for me. I know some people would have enjoyed watching a suited Vader for 3 films chopping down Jedi like Jason Vorhees, but that isn't great storytelling. That is just some people wanting the "kewl factor" It doesn't really add anything to the character or story.

    The same goes for having Darth Maul in for 3 movies as opposed to 1. Just more of the "kewl factor" and nothing more. His character served his purpose for the film. Count Dooku was the one that would seem sensible to organize a confederacy of systems together. I didn't particularly see Darth Maul accomplishing this. An assassin wouldn't have made a good leader of a separatist movement.

    So for me the films gelled really well and minor issues weren't enough to hinder my enjoyment of them. I am very happy that they are part of the SW saga.
     
    mikeximus, gristmill, Valiowk and 4 others like this.
  17. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Just to comment on this point let's look at what is actually said:

    LEIA Luke, what's wrong?

    Luke turns and looks at her a long moment.
    LUKE Leia... do you remember your mother? Your real mother? LEIA Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.




    LUKE What do you remember?






    LEIA Just...images, really. Feelings.

    LUKE Tell me.

    LEIA (a little surprised at his insistence)
    She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad.
    (looks up)
    Why are you asking me all this?

    He looks away.

    LUKE I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her.

    LEIA Luke, tell me. What's troubling you?

    LUKE Vader is here...now, on this moon.

    LEIA (alarmed)
    How do you know?

    LUKE I felt his presence. He's come for me. He can feel when I'm near.
    That's why I have to go.
    (facing her)
    As long as I stay, I'm endangering the group and our mission here.
    (beat)
    I have to face him.

    Leia is distraught, confused.

    LEIA Why?

    Luke moves close and his manner is gentle. And very calm.

    LUKE He's my father.

    LEIA Your father?

    LUKE There's more. It won't be easy for you to hear it, but you must. If I
    don't make it back, you're the only hope for the Alliance.

    Leia is very disturbed by this. She moves away, as if to deny it.

    LEIA Luke, don't talk that way. You have a power I--I don't understand and
    could never have.

    LUKE You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to
    use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family. My father has
    it...I have it...and...my sister has it.

    Leia stares into his eyes. What she sees there frightens her. But she
    doesn't draw away. She begins to understand.

    LUKE Yes. It's you Leia.

















    LEIA I know. Somehow...I've always known.

    LUKE Then you know why I have to face him.

    LEIA No! Luke, run away, far away. If he can feel your presence, then leave
    this place. I wish I could go with you.

    LUKE No, you don't. You've always been strong.

    LEIA But, why must you confront him?

    LUKE Because...there is good in him. I've felt it. He won't turn me over to
    the Emperor. I can save him. I can turn him back to the good side. I
    have to try.

    I see no reason at all this doesn't totally fit in. Leia is a Skywalker. Strong in the Force. She suddenly "knows" and always has. Same for Padme which is images and feelings. I think people forget that Padme carried Leia for months.

    The only contradiction is with the story that some fans created for themselves not the actual story on the screen.
     
  18. Andy Wylde

    Andy Wylde Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Qui-Riv-Brid Oh yeah I totally agree with you on that. It has been one of the biggest topics brought up by some folks that think of it as their "slam dunk" against Lucas and the PT. For me I just get to the point where her memory of her mother is so vague that I never really seen the big deal about it. But with the text you just provided it seems even more tired of people to make a huge deal out of. She is force sensitive. That was established back in TESB when Luke was calling out to her to save him. But ROTJ just confirms it by what Luke says.


    So for me that scene on Endor about her remembering her mother was all attributed to her being force sensitive. And yes you are 100% right about some folks having their own stories made up about events in the saga. Like it was Lucas' fault that his story didn't line up with theirs? lol

    Some of these fans...


    And as for Luke telling Leia that she will learn to use those powers herself? I don't think we will ever see that in the future. :(
     
    mikeximus and Ezon Pin like this.
  19. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    I will never get what they really want because I don't think they know themselves other than they want it to be their story not Lucas'.

    The same basic thing that happens to Leia also happens to Rey though on a different level of entanglement and scope but it still comes down to remembering things through the Force.

    In basic story terms accepting that Luke already knows about Leia's adoption is fine but accepting that Leia's own memories are exactly what she says they are isn't?

    Obviously like Luke she was told a certain story about her parents that we never get. All we know for sure about the story Luke was told was that he thought his father was a navigator on a spice freighter. That's it. We assume he was also told the name of Anakin and anything else he was told we don't know. Leia might have been told a lot of things about her mother that weren't true as well.

    What she does know is images and feelings.
     
    mikeximus, Ezon Pin and Andy Wylde like this.
  20. Andy Wylde

    Andy Wylde Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Yep. The images and feelings is really all I ever needed to understand what was going on. I was still young when I saw this in the movies so I didn't fully grasp everything right away. But when the PT came around it gave me a lot more perspective about the force and how it works. So I am always thankful for the PT and how it enhanced my appreciation of the OT.


    And some people never seemed to be able to grasp the concept of LUCAS' STORY! I know for some hindsight is always 20/20, and it's always easy for someone to say "well they should have done this or done that" but the simple concept of it being LUCAS' STORY eludes them? Funny isn't it?
     
  21. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    I wouldn't be critical of fans who question it. Keep in mind, when Lucas wrote that scene in RotJ it was not about Leia remembering Padme via the Force. GL is on record saying that the twins' mother took Leia to live with Bail & then died 2-3 years later. So originally Leia had genuine early memories of her. Which makes far more sense given her comments. When GL got to the PT he changed his mind, had Padme die in childbirth & left it to us to interpret the scene in Jedi. IMO it's pretty thin ice to say that Leia without knowledge of the Force can remember images & her mother's emotions while Luke, after years of study & training cannot. But it's not impossible, I guess.
    In any case the dialogue in the RotJ scene doesn't mesh very well with the facts as shown in RotS.
     
    DarthCricketer and Nate787 like this.
  22. Nate787

    Nate787 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    It is really quite funny to watch people defend these inconsistencies by shifting blame to the viewer. The "explanations" are really just mental gymnastics and justifications for lack of attention to detail and poor retconning. You can judge how poorly these inconsistencies are by how many Lucas quotes it takes to justify them. He managed to fool a lot of people though I'll give him that.
     
  23. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Agreed, this particular one doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
     
    DarthCricketer likes this.
  24. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015

    And guess what? It was never stated in the movie that these past events happened.

    So GL, went back on his word to create a better story for the sacrifice on continuity.

    In fact, the retcon is just nitpicky. It barley affects anything since the films don't change.
     
  25. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Same thing can be applied about Leia sensing that Han died in TFA, tough she still seems to have never been trained to the ways of the Force 30 years after the events of ROTJ (Luke had to train her own son, not her), and the recent inconsistency about Leia not comforting Chewy after Han died, but heading directly to Rey instead even if they have never met each other before. But still, JJ Abrams used the same "cheap explanation" as Lucas, about Leia being Force sensitive and not having to be trained to the ways of the Force to recognize Rey and sensing Han's death: http://mashable.com/2016/03/09/why-leia-hugged-rey/#8S58pv6SFGqS


    But the problem is not that, I buy it, just as I buy that Leia could have recognized her real mother, Padme, through the ways of the Force.

    Where the bottom really hurts is that, while people are still yelling against George Lucas for that explanation in order to tie together the PT and the OT, they are not yelling at all against JJ for giving more or less the same type of explanation as Lucas for TFA, while "the Force explanation" for Leia's visions in ROTJ has already been reinforced by what we learn and see in TFA.

    It's now easier to say that the inconsistency in many fan's reasoning is even more disturbing and baffling than the inconsistencies found so far in the movies: when George Lucas gives an explanation for an inconsistency, nobody accept it and treat him as a cheater or liar. But when it's someone else who uses and gives the same explanation as Lucas, nope, there's no problem at all...