A Big Continuity Fix...The Thrawn Trilogy and Dark Empire

I heartly agree with you. The "Retreat from Corascant" short story seves as a bit of a bridge, but it's not much, and we need more.

TC

 

TalonCard,

"However if DE is to be believed, Evil was not defeated, merely inconvenienced."

I don't believe Palpatine's claim that everything was going according to plan in the years after RotJ. I think he just wanted to seem more in control than he really was.

 

I wouldn't cry if Dark Empire and its sequels were deep-sixed from the timeline.

DE represents all that is bad about the EU:
Ressurected villians (reborn Emperor(s), Boba Fett)
Superweapon overkill (World Devastators, Galaxy Gun, etc)
Bad characterization (Luke joining the Dark Side)
Over-the-top Force powers (crushing AT-AT's, etc)
Comic book science (crashing a Star Destroyer on Coruscant)

I don't give a rats behind if Lucas liked it and/or gave it as a Christmas present, or that LFL approved the story. They approved lots of junk during the early 90's. It is a crying shame that such a poor story had such a large impact on the Bantam storyline.

And what really bugs me is that sneaking suspicion at the back of my mind that says Lucas will wimp out in the prequels and have Anakin try to destroy the Dark Side from within, only to be seduced by it.

 

"I wouldn't cry if Dark Empire and its sequels were deep-sixed from the timeline."

"DE represents all that is bad about the EU:
Ressurected villians (reborn Emperor(s)"

nothing bad about this infact it was the first to do it, so it wasn't a copycat.

"Boba Fett"

not ressurected at all, he never died in the first place. marvel escaped fett first in one of its with one of it's stories. of course fett relanded back into the pit at the end.

Superweapon overkill (World Devastators, Galaxy Gun, etc)

Not a problem, lucas is at fault for it himself, he has had a superweapon in almost every movie so far(going by dictionar definition of a super weapon).

Bad characterization (Luke joining the Dark Side)
Not bad at all, infact it's in line with how luke acted in the Rotj, and novel. Lucas even liked the idea.

Over-the-top Force powers (crushing AT-AT's, etc)

this is in line for lucas vision of the force, his force is of super duper over the top powers and he said we will see them in his PT. Zahn has said that he has messed up with what he has done with the jedi, that he got it all wrong with limiting the force.

"Comic book science (crashing a Star Destroyer on Coruscant)"

So what?, x-wing had comic book science with the lusankya being ripped out of the coruscant buildings.

"I don't give a rats behind if Lucas liked it and/or gave it as a Christmas present, or that LFL approved the story. They approved lots of junk during the early 90's. It is a crying shame that such a poor story had such a large impact on the Bantam storyline."

well, since so much of it is in line with lucas vision, fault the maker, you best not watch the prequel films your going to be disapointed.

"And what really bugs me is that sneaking suspicion at the back of my mind that says Lucas will wimp out in the prequels and have Anakin try to destroy the Dark Side from within, only to be seduced by it."

What's wrong with that it would be in line with his vision, and would make total since.

 

Jades Fire...
"DE represents all that is bad about the EU:"

For the most part, I'll agree with Valiento on these points, with the following to add...

"Ressurected villians (reborn Emperor(s), Boba Fett)"

Actually, the Reborn Emperor was not Veitch's decision. LFL altered the story to be the Reborn Emperor. It really is no different from Tim Zahn trying to ressurect a good character, "Obi-Wan Kenobi" and have him be a clone villain. Boba Fett had already made appearances in the eu after ROTJ long before Veitch had him appear in DE.

"Bad characterization (Luke joining the Dark Side)"

His characterization is actually dead-on. ESB makes this very clear about Luke's character, and he was still learning such hard facts of life when DE happened. However, Veitch's characterization is some of the most accurate in the EU. Not only for Luke, but also for Han and especially Leia as a Jedi.

"Over-the-top Force powers (crushing AT-AT's, etc)"

Veitch's Force powers were certainly not over-the-top. They were in full accordance with the creator of Star Wars ideas. For this, refer to original Star Wars scripts which allude to some very powerful powers indeed. Lucas also has a whole section about how he wanted to have a big "superforce" Jedi battle in TPM - the first time Qui-Gon and Maul fought on Tatooine. They were going to be flying about, superspeed, etc. Dark Empire again is 100% dead-on accurate with respect to the Force.

"Comic book science (crashing a Star Destroyer on Coruscant)"

Actually, the science of the crash wasn't even explored at all in DE. It is an old plotting device "in media res" - you start the story full into the action. It didn't matter to the story one bit why the SD crashed - it did. And actually, you should have filed this one directly above. It was actually Luke who managed the safe landing. The "science" of the crash has been explained in the Dark Empire Sourcebook. But, for DE, it was meaningless.

"I don't give a rats behind if Lucas liked it and/or gave it as a Christmas present, or that LFL approved the story."

However, you should if you claim such things as something being "out of character." The creator of all people knows how his creations are supposed to be characterized. In the case of DE, the fact that he liked the characterizations of everything means that everything was "in characer" from the Force to the mains.

"They approved lots of junk during the early 90's."

By early '90's, I assume you mean 1990 to 1993. Besides Dark Empire (and the WEG & Lucasarts games), there were only really three other Star Wars products released - HttE, DFR and TLC. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find people around here who call The Thrawn Trilogy "junk."

"It is a crying shame that such a poor story had such a large impact on the Bantam storyline."

Yes, that should tell everyone something. The reason it had a large impact is because it's not a poor story. In fact, Veitch seems to have had his finger on the pulse of Star Wars...

"And what really bugs me is that sneaking suspicion at the back of my mind that says Lucas will wimp out in the prequels and have Anakin try to destroy the Dark Side from within, only to be seduced by it."

Well, that's exactly some of the things that have been alluded to happening. Anakin Skywalker was seduced by the Dark Side. He is headstrong and reckless, yet has a good heart. Add those up and you get someone who would be willing to try and stop Sidious, Palpatine or "the Dark Side" from within.

 

About the Force powers.. I know that specifically at this point in time that Tom Vietch, Kevin Anderson, and anyone else portraying Force powers had to specifically write down what they wanted to show and George Lucas himself would make notes on the paper, approving, disappproving, or altering what was being done.

 

Yep,yep,yep...says so in one of the AJs and one of the Galaxy mags.

One example was.....Veitch and Anderson wanted to have a Force power where the Jedi could take on the traits of animals.GL didn't like that so he nixed it.Veitch and KJA were glad that he approved of Jedi battle mditation though,which they considered one of the more interesting Jedi powers........perhaps GL will use it in the prequals?

 

Matthew Trias...
"Veitch and Anderson wanted to have a Force power where the Jedi could take on the traits of animals.GL didn't like that so he nixed it."

However, proving that ole' George doesn't always get his way, someone went over Lucas' head and got them in anyway. In the Tales of the Jedi Companion - their sourcebook for the first Tales of the Jedi story arc up to Freedon Nadd Uprising, WEG introduced the "Jedi Beastmaster." Their favorite quote, "The beasts know much that we do not."

In addition, we get the following Jedi power...
Beast Languages
Effect: This power allows the Jedi to translate a beast-language and speak it in kind...

While not perhaps a true animal's "trait" mimicry, whomever wanted it - KJA or Veitch - got it eventually from a CPOV.

 

If I remember correctly the beast masters merely had the ability to comunicate with animals....not actually take on their traits......

I have no problem with a Jedi speaking to animals and being able to speak their language,but I don't want to see a Jedi touch a chameleon and be able to change skin color/patterns.(not that they would have to,but you get the point)

 

Jedi Shapeshift is what was nixed. Talking to animals is fine. for more on that click the link in my sig marked "Padawan and the Panther"

 

hmmm...that must've been another one DL.

And I wouldn't want to see that power either.Besides,the Jedi wouldn't need to shapeshift.They can make most most beings think they're not there,no need to shapeshift.

 

I'm saving this thread,for the next time some fan boy with wet dream delusions of GL and SW comes along and bashes the EU,and acts like his vision of SW is GLs too.

"Yes GL approved of the star buster power."

 

no, I mean the animal traits.. the Jedi would be shapeshifting, or at least partially so, like werebeasts. tooth and claw.

 

You mean they would actually grow temporary teeth and claws......?

 

indeed

 

Does anyone know the circumstances of it. Like let's start at the beginning - was it Vietch or Anderson? I can possibly see where it could fit one of the supporting characters in TOTJ. After all, the Jedi have done crazier things. However, I would be more inclined to accept a species trait - like the Shi'ido as opposed to a Force power. I also don't think either would have it used by a main (Ulic, Emperor Reborn). I'd have a hard time believing if Leia pulled an "Animality" on the Emperor Reborn at the conclusion of DE.

 

eek

I could just imagine the EU bashers then.......

 

I could actually imagine the Sith using that power.In sourcebooks it says that some the most powerful ancient Sith could create life like gods.This power was featured in MOTS when a "Dark" Mara appeared from out of no where.

I could imagine an ancient Sith Lord "enhancing" his features using the Force.......

 

Vietch for the original Tales before Anderson got involved IIRC. I don't mind too much if the power was allowed. I find it intriguing.

 

The Ancient Sith were master artificers and alchemists..

 

Yeah I wouldn't mind if it was only a Sith power.It's not very Jedi to play with nature like that,but I could totally imagine a Sith using the power.

 

Using the arcane Jedi powers learned from the fallen Jedi Beastmaster, Vima-da-Boda, Leia reached deep down inside of her being and awakened the anaimal inside of her. The Emperor was stunned as Leia turned into a giant Marmoset and bit him in two, freeing her brother from his clutches.

From the Jedi Holocron, the whispering voice of Bodo Baas stated "Flawless Victory."

 

indeed
what if we made it a Sith power by saying that life essence had to be stolen from the creature in order to become like it? or blood?

 

Ho, Ho, Ho
Ha, Ha, Ha

 

Sith powers have always been kind of magicky. Look at the Sith alchemy of TotJ. Their powers seem to be less concerned for the natural order of the universe then the Jedi. Perhaps the lightside is limiting in a way but you get a tradeoff. (what exactly that is I don't know)