Lit A Bright Center: The Official Core Worlds Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Chandrilans do place an emphasis on political education, but there is nothing that says their democracy is full of like minded people. CATCW and other sources point out that Chandrila has numerous public forums where citizens debate political issues. They are political and like to argue. And have a reputation as being know it alls.

    Kinda like my buddy Jello. [:D]:p

    If I can accept a galaxy where faster than light travel exists and there is a mystical Force that binds the galaxy together, I can accept that there is a direct democracy of that size that actually works. :p

    The population control thing, IIRC, is explained by Chandrila's desire to avoid the fate of most urbanized Core Worlds. In reality, if the people want to maintain their world as a paradise, the only way to do that (short of forcing people off world, which wouldn't exactly be part of a free society), limited family size is the only way. Though they did admit many refuges to their world during the Vong War.

    --Adm. Nick
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  2. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

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    Scary stuff, in that case the Maker save the Kings/Queens of the Core Worlds:)
  3. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

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    I imagine they work something like the Asari Republic from Mass Effect and rely on electronic communication to make their direct democracy work.

    though I do have to admit, the process of making Chandrilla and Alderaan and the like utopian while the rest of the galaxy sucks does have a side of effect of making them look self-centered and exclusionary, especially since they are part of the same galactic economy, and thus benefit just as much from the exploitation and oppression of the rim as anyone else in the Core (though Alderaan has a proud history of charity to balance things out.)


    And it isn't even a political thing either. I have felt the same way about many utopian kingdoms in fantasy - You know on some level you should support the nicer place, but for some reason there is just this strong instinct to hate their smug, utopian faces. Not to mention there are plenty of stories where people highlight the dystopian aspects of a society by having a small elite live in luxury while the populace starves, and this is the same thing on an international level.

    Maybe this is why I wasn't bothered by turning Alderaan into a Game of Thrones style warzone in SWTOR. Besides, that is just what happens when you let aristocrats run things.
  4. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Which is pretty much why everyone hates elves.



    Have it destroyed by a superweapon that needs to drill into planets so it can explode black holes inside them? I would walk out like I should have done in Star Trek.

    Short term political infithing until they settle on a new capital and things are pretty much back to normal.
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Feb 20, 2013
  5. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    This gets into tricky issues of resource distribution though. So long as we are not dealing with a post-scarcity society there's never going to be enough to go around, which makes distribution something of a zero-sum game - for one person to have more another person ends up with less and the ethical issues just get nastier and nastier once you start down that particular rabbit hole.

    I would judge 'utopian' states in a resource limited society based far more on management of said resources rather than absolute quantities, and in that aspect the Alderaans and Chandrilas of the galaxy do have a distinct superiority over the wasteful excesses of Hutt Space or the Corporate Sector and so forth.
  6. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

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    Well they didn't do too bad of a job for the first 21,000 years of Alderaan's history :)
    When you write it out it sounds even worse than seeing it on screen. I really hope they wouldn't destroy Coruscant in the new trilogy, though I would be looking forward to some sort of planet killing superweapons being featured in the story. If I had to nominate a Core World though, Chandrila would be my number one:)
  7. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    One aspect of Chandrila I have always wanted to see more of was their planetary navy. Admiral Drayson was, IIRC, commander of the Chandrilan Navy prior to joining the Rebel Alliance. As a wealthy and powerful Core World, one imagines that Chandrila had a pretty good sized navy prior to the Empire taking over. Given it's focus on direct democracy and public forums, the Chandrilans always reminded me of the ancient Athenians under Themistocles. Chandrila isn't very urbanized, so I where they bought their warships from?

    --Adm. Nick
  8. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    I would guess RSD like pretty much everyone else. Though I doubt it was much more than a deceit local patrol fleet, as Chandrila was properly way to sensible to go for the Kuati sales pitch like a few others did.
  9. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

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    I wouldn't picture them with a large Navy either. They certainly don't seem to be the militaristic type. Peaceful, and "unfamiliar with hard work and sacrifice".

    After taking a quick gander at the Coruscant and the Core Worlds I found the use of datadaggers interesting, as a darker side of their culture. I really did laugh out loud when it said even Alderaanian's hated Chandrilan's.
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  10. Havac Former Moderator

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    That is so, so perfect.
  11. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Man, there are alot of Chandrila haters in here. :p

    Say what you want, but at least they are not generic Core Worlders. I love it when a Core culture is fleshed out. Otherwise we are left with a bunch of boring Core stereotypes that fail to "expand" the Expanded Universe.

    --Adm. Nick
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  12. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

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    We're not complaining. :p
  13. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    I'm actually extremely pleased that they're totalitarian contrarian freaks. It makes everything make so much sense.
  14. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Totalitarian? Chandrila doesn't fit the definition. Any serious connection to that term is a stretch at best. Yes, it has a government policy to keep family sizes low, but it is a liberal democractic world. There is no source stating that Chandrilans resent this policy or feel oppressed because of it, so it is a moot point to claim that it is.

    Your earlier analogy to it being a sort of "Jeffersonian agarian paradise" was spot on. Granted I know the very idea of that is abhorent to you, but the defintion fits very good. Alderaan, to a large extent, could fall in this category as well.

    We know of republics, monarchies, aristocracies, guilds, and direct democracies in the Core, but I wonder how many fit the more modern definition of being a democratic republic (aka consitutional republic)?

    --Adm. Nick
  15. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Esseles, Galantos and Caamas properly have something in that direction, though of course it is never explicitly made clear how their election system works.
  16. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    It is worth noting that any planet in the galaxy that has both modern Star Wars technology and has been settled for multiple millenia that is not a Metellos-style overpopulated urban sprawl or an empty wasteland without people is instituting some level of population control (at least when dealing with humans).

    Earth's current population growth rate is ~1% annually. If you take a million people (a reasonable colonial seed population) and apply that growth rate for 10,000 years (which doesn't even go back to the Pius Dea Era) your result number is 2.7 X 10^49. If you take one-tenth of that growth great (0.1% annually) your 1 million people still turn into 22 billion in 10,000 years. The reverse also holds - at rate of decline of 0.1% (which is less than what many modern countries are presently experiencing) Coruscant's one trillion people becomes a mere 45 million in 10000 years.

    So let's not kid ourselves, any planet that is experiencing a population that is more or less stable over the long term (which clearly doens't hold true for plenty of Star Wars worlds, Taris for example) is exercising some pretty serious demographic management, whether on the natural growth end or the immigration end.
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  17. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

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    Though I think it is worth noting that the population growth of first world nations is significantly lower than third world ones, and that birth rates in particular have gone way down, to the point where some first world countries are seriously worried about the population shrinking rather than growing.

    Then we have to take in consideration that the Star Wars galaxy has an absurd number of inhabitable worlds, and space travel isn't that expensive, so people moving out and colonizing new planets should be fairly common.

    Given the technology and standard of living in the Star Wars galaxy, I am honestly surprised that it is as populace as it is described.
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  18. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    So, watching today's episode of TCW made me really think about how the hell people live on Coruscant. Specifically, how the hell do they live in the Undercity? How do they even have air down on level 1313? The smallest mechanical breakdown for air filters or water systems could have fatal implications for billions.

    Which got me thinking. The death toll on Coruscant during the Vong War must of been easily in the hundreds of billions. Which is always overlooked in the EU. Image the horrors that the Galactic Alliance recovery teams found when the world was liberated and they began to return to the lower levels... :-(

    --Adm. Nick
  19. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

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    TOR touches upon this in some of the Coruscant missions, which require that you perform maintenance on those systems.
  20. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Atmosphere regulation machine have always been mentioned as one of the things that basically all that keeps those areas liveable, though as The Loyal Imperial mentions regular maintenance should be very high on the agenda of the local administration. The NJO novels had a few “nice” scenes here during the Enemy Lines novels, were survivors had to cluster around those atmosphere machines which the Vong were destroying one after another during Raids.

    Properly not all that many bodies left, as you know Vong creatures that regulate environment... [face_plain] plus World Brain Thralls http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Thrall
  21. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

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    Maybe Coruscant too, it would be weird if the Republic capital wasn't one itself, though I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't have some nobility either.

    How many Core Worlds have been democracies or republics from the start, or at least for the time span of a millenia? Chandrila and Caamas look to be. Maybe Anaxes since its listed as a democracy in the "modern" era, but I would be surprised if it was always that way.
  22. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    I think that the fact that the Core Worlds decided to unite under a republican form of government shows that many of them had at least some form of representative government. I can see republics, constitutional monarchies, and benevolent monarchies being the most common form of governments among the early Core, with those that were empires probably still having an elected or appointed senate or representative house.

    I have always wanted to make a list of all Core Worlds and put their stated form of government next to them, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. :p

    --Adm. Nick
  23. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

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    Its a good valid hypothesis. My counter thought, as eluded to in some sources, is that the Core Worlds are dominated by and primarily ruled by some form of aristocracy or nobility. In order to make an alliance between these noble houses a possibility, a republic would make sense, so that the balance of power would be maintained and all of the planetary governments maintain an equal standing within the Republic.

    An excellent idea. I am surprised a planetary government page doesn't exist on wookieepeida. If there is ever anything like an Atlas made again, it would cool if they included government type with location, and not just the government type in the "modern" era, but the government type over the history of the planet in question. Corellia would make for a nice long list.
  24. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

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    True. After all, the Magna Carta was about the rights of nobles, but it started a chain of events that led to the democratic Britain of today.
  25. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Precisely -- I always thought it made sense for monarchical or aristocratic worlds to prefer a republican form of government, so that they would never truly be subordinate. The chancellor would be first among equals in the Senate, after all.
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