PT A challenge to myself

I guess, since this is my first thread, I ought to give you guys some background where I stand with Star Wars.

Note: Moderators, if at the end of this, you feel like this could be merged with an existing topic, feel free to do so

Original trilogy (Star Wars, Empire, Jedi): I'm a huge fan of these movies in their original un-altered form. In fact, my dvd set is the one with two discs for each movie, disc 1 being the special edition, and 2 has the theatrical edition (albeit, it's stuffed into the bonus disc as an after-thought, and has a crap transfer, but hey, i'll take it

The Prequels: I saw TPM in May 99, and ROTS, in May of 05. I never watched Attack of the Clones. Until, on a (masochistic) whim, I decided to watch Phantom Menace again, to see, as an adult, if the movie was as bad as others had described it. After that I watched the other two..Attack (for my first time) and ROTS for..i dunno maybe the 5th

I didn't like them..in fact, I hated them. It wasn't the Star Wars I held so dear, and it confused and angered me. Very little to nothing in the story made sense to me, the characters seemed boring, and devoid of any personality (minus, the Emperor, really), the writing made me feel like I was being talked down to, or beaten over the head (much like how I felt listening to Lucas on the OT commentaries), and I found the overabundance of CGI offensive.

In fact, I took solace that the RLM reviews existed, because they were therapeutic in a way. At least if I had to live in a word where these movies existed, the reviews were there for some level of comfort. That isn't to say I take them as gospel, or consider them the end-all-be-all, but it was comforting.

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If you didn't read any of that, here's me actually getting to the point:

I'm willing to give these movies (yet) another shot. I don't want to hate Star Wars. Maybe there's something I'm not getting, or maybe my initial reaction about them is right. I've agreed to watch these movies with a friend, who likes the PT. I'm going to try to go into it as open-minded as I possibly can be, and I figured I'd use this thread to make points, ask questions, point out any good I find, and point out things I can't forgive.


So, tl;dr self-admitted prequel hater wants to try and give these movies another (and probably a final) shot.

Thoughts on the idea?


Mod Edit:
This isn't the place to discuss your "Personal challenges", that's what blogs are for. ~Sx3

 

my only advice would be to try and watch them as you would have done when you first saw the original films. As a lover of all 6 films I really dont get why some fans hate it so much, i really really dont as its exactly the same story...my 6 year old watches 1-6 regularly and loves every moment, there are parts of clones i dont like but that does not alter my love for the story as a whole. I actually think its very deeply pyschological somewhere for both sides of the argument and has nothing to do with the material itself. As a kid i wrote some of my own prequel stories and the fight in the Naboo palace is almost a replica of what i wrote in 1979 aged 7 right down to the shiny floor and the statues.....in the end i think a lot of the PT bashers would have loved it if they were exactly as they were when they saw the OT

 

I honestly get what you're trying to say, but don't think that'd be the case.

Well, I have some personal nit-picks, but that's more with the IDEA of a prequel trilogy itself, rather than the content therein, although that's a source of contention for me as well.

Either way, point taken, I'll do my best to be as objective as I can when I watch them.

 

Well, first of all, get your titles right. Episode IV is called A New Hope. When you say "Star Wars", you're just talking about the whole thing.

And my advice is this: use this place to your advantage! I personally have always loved all six movies, and I even support the additions/fixes put in over the years, however, it was not until I stumbled upon a few threads at this very forum that I found myself with a new love for Star Wars. I know it's a lot, but look at this thread: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/visual-links.50003768/

It's stunning to me how much sheer thought went into even the smallest details... and to me, those are what truly makes Star Wars what it is. It's not a film. It's something of a more metaphysical level. The MOST important things are, ironically, the subconscious aspects. The small things you don't notice until you've watched it 100 times, the subtle nuances and movements, the tones and moods... all of it melds together to create something truly poetically beautiful.

Or maybe this is just my "certain point of view"

 

Are you going to try to trick yourself into liking the Ewoks movies and the Holiday Special too? Otherwise you'll never be a true StarWars fan.

 

Nope, pretty sure the original film is called "Star Wars", or at least it was, before the first time George Lucas George Lucas'd the films. Anyway, that's what I call the first movie, deal with it =p

And I suppose I will use the board, to the extent that I can...although this is still a very tentative plan since my friend doesn't own the prequels, and there's no way in hell i'm dishing out money for them, so until he gets them, this is kinda in limbo.

I've never actually seen the Holiday special..but i've heard it's horrible..although I have a feeling I'd find it more enjoyable than the prequels. (at least at this time)

 

I'd recommend watching from EP IV to EP VI right after you finish with EP III. That way you move right into the pay off of the OT which you really love. Maybe then it'll be easier to appreciate the entire story as a whole. I watched the 6 movie marathon for the first time recently and it really rekindled my love of the whole saga and sparked my interest for the ST.

 

If you were legitimately "angered" by the newer films to such a degree you feel uncomfortable existing in the same world with them, then no, I would not bother with giving the films a second chance. In fact I might even recommend a break from the Star Wars do you enjoy. These are all goofy space adventure films at the end of the day, not sacred cultural artifacts.

 

I kinda alluded to this, but although most of my issues are tiny nitpicky things, the bigger problem for me, is how it really doesn't work *with* the original trilogy. Midochlorians are one example, of something I think is really dumb..the way they did Anakin/Obi Wan's relationship is another but..

My main issue is how certain pivotal points in the OT lose their force, or their ummpph, because of information you have by watching the prequels (If we're to accept the idea they're to be watched from episodes 1-6)

For example, THE PIVOTAL moment in Empire, when Vader reveals he's Luke's father. That's supposed to be a big deal to the audience, and is supposed to change everything, but with what we know from the prequels, it effectively means little to nothing. The whole emotion, the ummph of that powerful moment is lost.

Another example of this, but to a much lesser degree: I detest the added scene in the 1997 special edition re-release of "Star Wars" (and all the other special editions for that matter) with Han and Jabba, because it effectively cockblocked what use to be two movies of you hearing about this Jabba the Hutt, wondering what he's like, and then BAM. I liked not knowing till Jedi..left more to the imagination



For now, I will say ONE nice thing about the prequels..and it doesn't really even concern the movies themselves.."Duel of the Fates" is a pretty rad song.

My language may have been a bit absurdist, to convey a point. Although I stand by what I said regarding the RLM reviews.

That's the thing though, they are cultural artifacts, to me..ESPECIALLY Star Wars, Empire and Jedi. Movies, in general to me, are cultural artifacts, and oughtn't be ****ed with after the fact. Just my opinion.

 

Aperture,

Try watching ROTS and then Star wars right one after another, While the twist for ESB is now gone knowing Anakin is Vader it adds a lot more dramatic tension for Luke in the first movie and the second movie to the build up of him finding out not us.

also that moment really loses its ummph the first time you watch Empire after seeing ROTJ.

 

I feel like though, that they tried too hard to beat you over the head with the "SEE THIS IS SETTING UP WHAT HAPPENS IN A NEW HOPE" You'll have to forgive me, because it has been almost a year since i've watched Revenge, but I seem to remember (as with a lot of George's writing in the prequels) that i felt like I was being talked-down to, like he felt like his audience is stupid.

But thank you for the advice. When I get around to watching Revenge again, I may take you up on that idea.

"While the twist is gone [...]" - Oh, you mean the twist that's..pretty essential to the entire trilogy? yup that one. At least you concede my point that the scene is pretty much ****blocked.

 

But that's entirely different though. That's comparing reading chapters in a book intentionally out of order, to (and pardon my uncreative example, it's late and i haven't slept) a prequel book, writter years later, and through information that you find out in it, guts the climax to the previous book.

 

I can't identify with the ESB being ruined or diluted once you know the twist because I read the book 30 plus years ago before seeing the movie. I was crushed over it. But once you know it you know it, and I can't imagine the PT making it any less an effective scene. I agree with AnakinColodin that it enhances the drama. Anyway, hope you find a way to enjoy them a little more this time around.

 

In that case my advice still stands. If you truly believe that Episodes IV-VI are "sacred" and were angered by the films that followed, then it seems pretty unlikely that further viewings will yield any better results.

 

First, Your Welcome, Unlike others who are OOT only you have so far shown yourself to be considerate and accepting that other people have opinions of the films that do not match yours. I love both trilogies equally, if I had to rate each film it would be 1.ESB and ROTS tied, 2. ROTJ, 3.ANH(or Star Wars as you prefer),4. TPM, 5. AOTC

The twist is technically gone the first time you see Empire. Whether in 1981 or later as I did(was not born till 84). I was not suggested watching out of order but talking about repeated viewings. After the first viewing of the OT you know from the beginning Vader is Lukes father. In fact I saw ESB and ROTJ before the first film. When my parents had deemed me old enough to watch the films in the late 1980's somehow the VHS with Star Wars aka A New Hope had been taped over, I believe with game six of the 1986 world series which as a Mets fan is still ok.. I do not think many other here can say they were introduced to Star Wars in the order I was V, VI, IV, I, II, III. For me the First movie always had the tension of Luke and Leia don't know that this is their father.

 

Watch it with a positive mind-set. Don't be cynical or condemning or negative while watching it, instead look for the things that you like and swallow down the things that you hate.

 

do you at least see why a lot of people love them and almost find 4-6 absurd without them? As soon I Saw Episode 4 on that crawl in 1977 i knew this 2 hours of film belonged to a much bigger story and i was always rabidly intrigued to what the first three episodes where. So I've loved the idea of the prequels since I was 5. when they came out I was not dissapointed (except for parts of Clones) - also try watching it with a child! These are family movies at the end of the day not Star Trek or Bladerunner, they are Saturday morning matinees b movies

 

I guess the idea of the prequels could have been cool. Besides some of the dramatic elements of the OT being cockblocked by information you get in the prequels, my other big problem was execution. I think the way they were handled, written, and in some cases casted was unfortunate.

The idea of the rise and fall of a tragic hero could be cool I suppose, if executed right

The reason Star Wars and Empire and to a lesser extent Jedi were so good is Lucas had people helping him..with the scripts, with everything. I've seen parts of the original draft of Star Wars and it was pretty abysmal. Both that and empire were as good as they were because of the help he had

I feel, with the prequels, there was nobody to tell Lucas no. That is, that his ideas could be better, or his dialogue could use improvement. And I suppose I get it..he's George Lucas, who's gonna have the brass pair to stand up to him, but any artist, whether it's a moviemaker, musician, etc needs to surround him or herself with a group of people who will offer constructive criticism. I don't feel like the prequels had that, and the result was a sloppy story, for an idea that could have been cool, poor dialogue (not George's strong suit, admittedly) and way too much reliance on CGI environments, as opposed to shooting on sets.

 

I hope I'm not coming off as blindly bashing the prequels..it's true that at this point and time I really do dislike them, but I'm trying to be constructive in my critique as opposed to saying "BAH BAD ADCTING MIDOCHLORIANS. JAR JAR DERP" (while I think those are valid complaints, sometimes the way people present their arguments is kinda DERP) and I'm aiming to avoid that.

but when I get around to it I'm willing to give them another go, I'll try and find *something* I like

 

I strongly disagree. There's no such thing as objectively good art, no key to universal success. Art is personal expression and should be treated as such. If the artist wants creative input, then by all means, let him/her have it. If not, he/she needs to be left alone. These movies are not for everyone. They were made for those who happen to enjoy them.
If you manage to see them in a different light and begin to like them, then that's awesome. I can imagine that it sucks to know that there are parts of the Star Wars Saga that you don't like and you'd be more than welcome to our family of love
If not, though, then it doesn't really matter in the end. Just keep watching the movies that you love and ignore the rest. It's not like we have to like all things Star Wars. I love these movies because they speak to me in a positive way, not because I feel obliged to.





- Where did you dig up that old fossil?
- Here, Master: Tatooine.
/LM

 

The Episode IV: A New Hope was added to the crawl when it was rereleased in 1981 and was not there in 1977. Were you really there in 1977???

 

If you don't like SW why are you on here? And how is it our responsibility to make you like it?

 

Where did you get the idea that I don't like the Star Wars saga? I'll help you out, I didn't ever say that. Just because I despise the prequels, doesn't mean I don't like the Star Wars saga. I'd argue, it's because I hold the theatrical, unaltered versions of "Star Wars", Empire, and Jedi so near and dear to my heart that I felt betrayed by what I felt was a horribly-executed waste of what could have been a really cool, and interesting idea.

As for the "why am I here?" thing. I never bashed anybody personally, I (to my knowledge) haven't made any ad-hominem attacks, so what's with being rude? I presented a challenge to myself, and after reading this board for a while, felt you guys might be able to assist me at least find more things to like.

 

There is a thread somewhere in these boards that talks about how you can watch the entire saga without any "pivotal" moments being ruined. I believe the order was...

A New Hope (or "Star Wars" if you like)
Empire Strikes Back
The Phantom Menace (this is the only one you can really skip)
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
Return of the Jedi

This way finding out Vader is Luke's father isn't ruined. After have a cliff hanger of an ending from "Empire" you get a flash back of sorts with the PT and it leaves you with a happy ending from "Return". If you do it in this order the only thing that is spoiled is finding out Luke and Leia are brother and sister. You could also just watch them in the order they were made, but that would leave you with a sad ending from "Revenge".