A change in Obi-Wan Kenobi's Character - from PT to OT?

Couldn't think of a better forum to post it in, but if I'm incorrect moderators please move this thread.

Anyway, have you guys noticed how many times more friendly, calm, patient, and well just nice Obi-Wan is in the OT rather than in the PT, where he's very strict (and a bit arrogant in Ep1).

I think this is due to different actors playing the character, or just the script. Or may be Obi-Wan goes through a heavy personality change or something, because AFAIK Sir Alec Guiness was a very friendly man. I'm sure Ewan McGregor is probably very friendly as well, but Alec Guiness was a very accomplished actor IIRC.

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

Obi-Wan in the PT is slowly changing.

Before Qui-Gon dies, he's, as you noted, a little more straitlaced, even a little arrogant. He's the fresh-fraced Padawan, a young man with his life ahead of him Then the emotion pours out of him as he fights Maul, and he runs the gamut of emotions -- fearful, angry, upset, then, finally, comes into his own ready to accept challenges and train Anakin.

In AOTC, he has more lighter moments, and while he's never afraid to keep his Padawan in line, we also get to see their friendlier side (conversation in the elevator, bickering in the yellow speeder).

He doesn't have the problems with Luke that he had with Anakin, so he can be friendly all the time. Luke isn't arrogant, doesn't question him. I'm sure if Luke talked back to Obi-Wan there'd be some strictness.

My point is that Obi-Wan acts differently depending on his situation, just like you or I do.

You'll notice he's all business again when he's with Vader in ANH, or when trying to talk Luke out of leaving Dagobah in ESB.


I don't think it has anything to do with the actors. Both McGregor and Guinness are/were capable of playing easygoing nice guys or stricter folk as the situation needed.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

I think if anything is consistent throughout the Saga, it's Obi-Wan. Both the script and the actor really give us one character.
Of course, there are differences between the movies. I would even go so far and say he's different in each movie (yes, CT movies, too).
It's just that, as with many many things between the PT and the CT, the differences seem a lot more drastic - most of the time deliberate. It's a whole other time. He's a Jedi in his prime in very different situations than as a hermit in the CT, as one of the very last jedi in hiding, cautiously trying to save the universe indirectly.

Yeah, and, well, there is the whole age thing

 

Plus, one guy he definitely thought he could trust turned around and handed his life's ass to him on a platter in RotS. That'd affect anybody in some way
Obi-Wan definitely carries more of the 'Dreams pass in time' tone with Luke. He probably learned from Anakin not to always be a hardass. Granted, Anakin didn't make it easy at times, but the tighter he held on, the more Anakin slipped through the cracks.

 

I agree with the above comments. I love how the character of Obi-Wan is portrayed and changes throughout the Saga.

I'm also looking forward to seeing how Yoda changes as a result of the events in RotS...from the galaxy-renowned Jedi Master to a hermit hiding on a forgotten planet.

 

Like Anakin, Obi Wan is a character that develops throughout each segment of the saga, with perhaps the exception of ESB due to his smaller role. In TPM, we have an Obi Wan who is a young, rule-devoted, somewhat arrogant young man in the golden age of the Jedi. This is fairly natural of people his age, so he represents a good portion of his average age group amidst Jedi, I'd assume. Qui Gon's death forces him to change, to become a little more defiant and open-minded, and his friendship and love for Anakin changes him a bit as well, but he's still fairly strict and straightlaced when it comes to the Jedi practice. (IMO, big difference between Anakin and Obi Wan is that Anakin's first loyalty is to his heart, whereas Obi Wan's is to the Order/Force.) ROTS is going to flip his world upside down. He's going to have everything he's ever loved abruptly torn apart and taken away...by the very person he possibly loves most. He's going to wind up at the end of that movie as an emotionally exhausted character, beaten down by the cruel reality of betrayal.

Nearly twenty years pass.

ANH Obi Wan is a character surviving on unstable hope for the future lying in the hands of his former friend's son after somewhat reconciling and accepting his loss. His perceptions have flipped around, he sees where he and Anakin and the Jedi made terrible mistakes. He is no longer the slightly arrogant Jedi we saw before - and when he is a bit seen as such, it's usually around Vader as a bluff technique. ESB Obi Wan is much the same, a bit more worrisome as he realizes that the fantasy he's carefully constructed for Luke might collapse. He fears he might be watching Luke go down the same path as Anakin. Finally, ROTJ Ben is when we see the real Obi Wan come out again, unhidden by the face he put on for Luke's sake. He is sorrowful and defeated when it comes to Anakin, blaming himself to quite a degree for the failure in training him properly. It's painful to see how much he wishes he could believe in the good in Anakin as Luke does, but simply doesn't feel it exists anymore.

Basically, Obi Wan comes full circle. He's probably one of the best developed characters after Anakin and Luke.

 

Well I think C_S nailed it pretty much dead on

 

Great post, CS.

 

Obi-Wan has grown older, wiser and probably learned that his stricness and his arrogance led to some problems.

 

Maybe Obi realized the strict method don't work (ex. Anakin = Darth Vader) So he tries being friendly.

 

I think CS has it perfectly.

 

He has to be a bit arrogant. Recall that he alludes to the fact that he and Yoda disagreed about training Anakin. In the OT, he has some regrets, admits that he was wrong about his ability to train Anakin.

If he hadn't been a bit arrogant (or headstrong, as Qui-Gon put it) then this turn of events wouldn't have been believable. As it is, his admiration for Qui-Gon forces him to put aside his own opinion (recall that he agrees with the council that Anakin should not be trained and is possibly dangerous) and carry on with his master's wishes. You get to see the extent to which Obi-Wan will honor the will of those he serves. He may be arrogant, but he's clearly a man of his word. The ending of TPM casts him in a very positive (albeit conflicted) light. I love the ending scene where he and Yoda are having it out about Anakin because you know that's not Obi-Wan's real feelings, but he's doing it out of sense of duty.

Still amazes me that people bash the PT so much when Lucas has paid such close attention to these kinds of things.

 

Of course he'll change. Not only he tried to hide his presence but he has mastered the Force through the years making him more calm.

 

Yes, there's definitely a change. Several changes, and progressive throughout all the films. It's called character developement And it's because Sir Alec and Ewan are such great actors than because of any discontinuity between. I believe that when the saga's complete, Obi-Wan's character will be the most complete of anyone.

I could spend ages talking about Obi-Wan's character developement (or in story format, eh...90,647 words so far ). It's really hard for me to summarize my thoughts on that, but suffice it to say that the end of Episode III is probably a big huge wake-up call. No one's perfect, and I love that Obi-Wan has flaws but that he also eventually works to change some things.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Lets also look at the students that Obi-Wan taught:

Anakin - slightly arrogant, has been referred to as The Chosen One, and knows he is very powerful, which causes Obi-Wan to need to teach him some humility. Also they have been living together for the past 10 years, I am sure they each have quirks that bother the other.

Luke - a wide-eyed farm boy, who dreams of the adventures that lie outside of his world. He then finds out that his father was a great hero, and he has the chance to be to. He also has the farmer work ethic.

Also we see Ob-Wan/Anakin relationship towards the end of Anakin's time as a student. Meanwhile, we are seeing Luke at the very beginning of his.

Even though they are father and son, there is alot of differences between the way Anakin and Luke grew up; and there are pyschologists will argue that environment has a large role in what we grow up to be.

 

A more important fact, though, is the relationship Obi-Wan has with each of his students. With Anakin he's like a father, but with Luke he's more like a grandfather. He had to deal with raising Anakin day in and day out. So of course they're going to grind on one another's nerves. But who doesn't like their grandfather, who can pop in and steal you away from your guardians for a while to take you out for ice cream?

Ok, so that's not exactly how it happened, but you know what I mean

In general, though, by the OT Obi-Wan has learned that you have to let yourself be a little more human once in a while. It may be dangerous, but it's necessary. He's still disciplined, but a lot more relaxed and certainly humbled.

One cool thing is that in the PT Obi-Wan says "Use the Force- Think!" In the OT, he tells Luke to "Stretch out with your feelings!" He's become a little more feeling centered as Qui-Gon was in TPM when he tells Anakin to use the Force by feeling, not thinking. Still, Obi-Wan never becomes quite as unthinking as Qui-Gon


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

i feel inclined to agree with the solojones.

 

So what you're saying SJ... is when Luke sees Obi-Wan die... it's like seeing grandpa get hit by a semi while crossing the street...
Very little left, but some clutter on the ground...

 

No, because there aren't pieces of grandpa stuck to the grill or anything amazingly traumatizing like that. It's more like seeing grandpa zapped into oblivion and not being able to bury him... and then being haunted by him...

-sj loves kevin spacey