A critical analysis of David Filoni's contributions to the SW canon

So lets discuss and Analyze Dave Filoni's role in Lucas film and Star wars Canon in general


Also thanks Todd the Jedi for the name of the thread.

Some ground rules

No bashing, lets keep this civil.

 

This.... Will not end well......

 

I think we can keep it civil this time instead of starting it off as if they should fire him.

 

My dear, you have succinctly put what would have (and has) taken me a WOT to express. Well done.

My only thing to add is that, yes, while others certainly have been guilty of the very same thing, Dave Filoni is now a member of a very select group of folks who are at liberty to dictate Star Wars canon as they see fit (a very important distinction for a geek like me).

Which, to me, makes it so much more important that he demonstrate that "restraint and respect" thing we spoke about earlier.

 

I really don't get the criticism that Filoni's Faves (tm) are suddenly super special and important compared to the rest of the plot, or other creators' characters when they get to choose direction. Ahsoka's entire story in TCW came and went; Anakin still turned due to Palpatine's manipulation and his issues with the Council, and his fear for Padme, Obi-Wan still stopped him, refused to kill him and so, Darth Vader. Padme still died, Leia and Luke were still both born, Luke was still the one to redeem Vader. Literally nothing changes whether Ahsoka was there or not, in fact in TCW her last appearance is her walking away. In Rebels Ahsoka has done nothing other than give Hera and the others information about their missions - someone was going to have to, it's really not a big deal. And Plo could be swapped with literally any other Jedi Master in 99% of his scenes/storylines and it would not make the slightest bit of difference, he's there as a Jedi, he doesn't get any super-special magic abilities (Hello Mace with your super-rare invented duelling style and cool ability no other Jedi has!) - he's a placeholder Jedi Master, who gets shot down by clones in the end ANYWAY.

If he really was that big a deal, it would have been Plo who they thought they'd found alive in Rebels, not Luminara. And he would have survived for real, most likely. Filoni just likes giving an obscure character something to do. Big deal.

 

If he decided to kill Ashoka off, would his detractors then hail him as a genius and his fans call him a fool?! Seems like a damned if he does, damned if does not. I think we should be careful not to pigeon hole him. I think they enjoy letting people think they know the rules of Star Wars and just like that that throw a curve ball and remind people that they do not. I don't really get the impression he's some self-serving megalomaniac, he's a showbiz guy sure, but far from malicious and mischievous. Am sure if the storyline calls for it they'd kill off many of our favorites, sucks but its their franchise. Maybe we can petition but thats probably about it at the end of the day.

 

Well Ahsoka was created pretty much as the viewpoint character to the series, that seems pretty standard operating procedure. And she got more stories as the audience (generally speaking) genuinely seemed to like her and want to see her develop and grow. She grew into becoming the main character and that's how it goes sometimes, it's certainly not a stick to beat Filoni with given how loathed she was initially with all that Skyguy nonsense. By no means was she universally popular but then, which character is?

Plo didn't really actually DO much in any of his episodes that other characters didn't also get to do. Mace got some cool fights, Kit Fisto got to go up and Grievous and win, Aayla Secura, Even Piell, Adi Gallia, Eeth Koth, there are a whole bunch of Masters who did get to feature and actually progress the overall plot too. Plo could have been swapped out but it would not have affected the plot in the slightest.

 

Every single author/creator has characters they favour. Most of the time it's pretty darn obvious which they are. Viewpoint characters are pretty much the standard, and there would have been one regardless of who got the job if it hadn't been Filoni, maybe another new character maybe they'd have focussed it on Anakin or Obi-Wan (who were both just as much the focus as Ahsoka ever was or more.) A lot of Anakin's character development was due to having to try and be a teacher and a mentor so he'd need a pupil for that to work. And as I say, I am pretty sure Ahsoka was the 'in' character for a certain age bracket of younger fans, though I was not one of them so this remains supposition.

I think Filoni has done as good a job as could possibly be expected. Made mistakes for sure but that's not a crime, done far more good than bad. Certainly I can't think of any other alternative realistic show runner type who wouldn't do similar, even if the exact characters in question were different.

 

Dave Filoni has had some good creative ideas, with Ahsoka ranking high among them. Having Ahsoka be Anakin's apprentice was a shaky call, though, and does call into question why Ahsoka's influence on Anakin never was mentioned in Episodes III - VI. Sure, her presence is contained to TCW only, but that is what makes it so shaky. As a Jedi apprentice character, she is great. It would have been much more palatable if she had been the apprentice of another Jedi Master that wasn't one of the major players in the movies and if she had less involvement with Anakin, Obi-Wan etc.

Summarizing from my locked thread (with the unintentionally provocative title, lol), here is what I think is reason for Filoni to have much less influence on Star Wars canon than he currently does:

1) The Clone Wars movie (2008) - that was his debut moment and he laid a serious egg. Between Ziro the Hutt, the baby Hutt, and Anakin and Ahsoka referring to each other as SkyGuy and Snips, this was the biggest Star Wars abomination since the Holiday Special. Probably an even greater abomination considering that it is an officially credited canon story as opposed to a parody made-for-tv holiday special. Chalk it up to Lucas's heavy-handed influence and/or inexperience, but.......

2) Even though TCW got better as a whole in latter seasons, there has been a "consistent lack of consistency" in tone and maturity throughout The Clone Wars and Rebels. This falls squarely on Filoni and the team that he helms. The quality and tone of the story fluctuates wildly from episode to episode. It goes from incredibly exciting to incredibly dull, from cringe-inducingly babyish to shockingly violent, and this happens in every single season. The excuse for the babyishness is that the shows are developed for kids, at least from the start, and that they will get darker over time. They do get darker, and end up being more violent than any of the original movies ever were (e.g. Ahsoka beheading about 5 Mandalorians in a single swipe ---- awesome, yes, but incredibly inconsistent in tone compared to many of the episodes and more violent than anything put forward in the original movies). Darker doesn't necessarily mean more violent. Darker means deeper, more intense, higher stakes, actual character development and tension, with an emphasis on the bad guys having the upper hand and exerting their influence on the main protagonists. Filoni just doesn't understand this and doesn't understand how to put forward a consistent tone and quality in his shows. By consistent tone, I don't mean for it to be serious or exciting every single episode......I just mean that there shouldn't be such wild swings in maturity ---- none of the movies suffer from this.

3) Filoni and his team lack the ability to create subtle references or homages that keep you in the Star Wars universe and that don't blatantly copy past Star Wars movies. If George asks for the show to become more like a western, Filoni will create characters that explicitly don Western hats, throw in dialogue and styles of speaking that are distinctly attributable to a universe outside of Star Wars and create episodes that have the explicit feel of the Spaghetti Western movies, which rips some viewers out of the Star Wars universe.

Another example of this is Kevin Kiner being told to make the Rebels music sound more like the original trilogy. Instead of drawing heavy influence from the OT music but creating a completely new score that just references universal themes throughout the movies like character themes, The Force theme, the Rebels fanfare etc. , he actually rips explicit leitmotifs ("Here They Come", "The Battle of Hoth", "Tales of a Jedi Knight", even "The Basket Game" from Raiders of the Lost Ark(?!?!) etc.) and just plugs them in at random places in the episodes. Tons of fans that are unfamilar with the OT music end up praising him for it and calling it brilliant. However, to many longtime fans that intimately know the source material, it completely rips us out of the episode that we're watching, since we know that that music is meant for a specific scene in a specific movie. Kiner and Filoni seem to have completely misunderstood that leitmotifs and little diddys like the string line to "Tales of a Jedi Knight" are NOT meant to be copied and reused for other scenes/movies/shows. They are specific to just those moments and should be very sparingly referenced, if even used at all. There may have been just a few moments where John Williams reference a previous leitmotif (like "Here they Come" in RoTJ for a brief moment), but they are sparingly and smartly done.

4) The retconning and shoehorning of his own characters into canon. Others are focusing on these aspects and yes, they are critical flaws of his leadership. To me, it strikes as extremely ego-centric ---- disregarding what makes the most sense for the Star Wars storyline as a whole in order to give his characters as much facetime and influence as possible. Yoda would say "Filoni......you are reckless!!!!"

5) He seems to be getting worse and worse at giving the green light to less-than-stellar and/or controversial character artistic profiles. Ezra looks so much like Aladdin, and even has a similar backstory. Seriously......Filoni had the power to ask his team to go back to the drawing board and come up with something more original, but.......he didn't. A pink armored Mandalorian --- why can't we all agree that this is an abomination? The Inquisitor..........not sure how to describe the look of his character other than uninspired. Was that the best Filoni and co. could do? If so, there must be better artists out there for Star Wars canon animated shows....... and finally, the latest thing to raise my eyebrows........the very brow of cartoon Vader himself. Why does he look like his mask is actually scowling?!?!?! It is over-the-top and degrades his threatening aura by making him look cartoonishly angry. Just another in a long line of questionable, uninspiring decisions by Filoni and his team.

I had no idea he was a charter member of the new Star Wars Story Group......all the more reason for me to have serious concern about him and his past decisions). Even though he has produced some decent episodes and storylines her and there, his major inconsistencies and questionable decision along the way should have been enough to phase him out of the limelight in terms of major Star Wars canon plotlines moving forward.

 

See look how much bester that is worded.

 

while we talk about Filoni, I'm just gonna throw my hat in the ring and ask everyone what you all think of the retcons.

1. Mandalore

2. Darth Maul

3.Adi Gali

4. Evan Piell

5. Barriss Offee

6. Moraband

7. Ventess' species / the nightsisters business.

8. Neutral CIS big players.

(Granted some of these may be Lucas tinkering. )

I currently don't have the energy to give a lengthy explanation right now, so I'll let you guys do if for me what are your opinions?

 

Madalore being pacifistic I like. Not everyone need be so blasted war-happy in a war story.

Maul was lame.

It should've stayed Korriban.

 

Mandalore ---- hate it ---- had the perfect opportunity to leverage the brilliant lore that Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2 established for the Mandalores, Mandalorian Wars etc. Filoni's version of Mandalore is much less interesting.

Darth Maul ---- hate it ---- yes, he died way too early in the prequels and should have been the Sith apprentice up until Anakin's fall. Resurecting him and sticking his torso on a mechanical spider's body was a jump-the-shark moment for Star Wars canon. Absolutely ridiculous.

Minor Jedi Council characters ---- don't mind too much --- not even sure what was retconned....

Moraband --- don't mind this much

Ventress / nightsisters ---- while a little far-fetched for Star Wars, I didn't mind this. It opened up the Star Wars universe a little bit more in an interesting way. The magic aspects of the nightsisters strayed a little from the feel of Star Wars and into more generic fantasy realm, but was tolerable.

Netrual CIS big players --- not sure what you are referring to.

 

Interesting. Thanks for the insight anakinfan, cushy, saxman.

Saxman, what I meant was major separatist factions being neutral in TCW. (Banking clan, TF, etc.) It didn't just contradict the EU, it contradicted the films as well.

As for the "minor jedi" the ones I listed were big EU players, it was somewhat upsetting to some fans what ended up happening to them.

 

I likewise think Satine had much more 'spine' than most here credit her for. It takes spine to strive to remain nonviolent when everyone is badgering you to throw your morals away.

 

Remember when Palpatine wanted to talk to Anakin, so he told Ahsoka to buzz off? Good times.

Sorry to the OP for my digression! Back on track. Generally, I like Filoni. Re: canon contribution, I dislike his lack of explanation with LS blade color change/expansion (never liked the rainbow of blades). If anyone changes GFFA standards, back it up with reason. Favoritism bugs me, too, but that has been discussed (eloquent as always, AFS). Otherwise, he's a remarkable director, understanding the visual language of Star Wars. I hope he stays with Star Wars for a long time.

 

For a lot of these, I wasn't even aware they were retcons when I first saw them on TCW. I wasn't a fan of Darth Maul being brought back; not really angry about it or anything, but I felt it was unnecessary, especially as it seemed to me like Savage Opress was going to be his "replacement" when he was introduced.
I didn't know about the "other" death for Adi Gallia. I would have found it a bit hard to believe that Grievous, as he was portrayed in TCW, would be capable of killing a Jedi Master, though.
I can understand, story-wise, why they did what they did with Barriss in season 5, but I didn't like it.
I don't really know why they changed it to Moraband but I'm not upset about it.
I can understand why these retcons would be upsetting, though. I guess in a way, I was lucky to be unaware of most of the EU at the time.

 

Star Wars at its heart is very much a Western with a sci-fi/fantasy flavor which essentially is the definition of a Space Western. IIRC Lucas stated that he wanted to directly draw from the genre for Star Wars.

 

I'm unhappy with almost every single one of these. The only one I'm okay with is Darth Maul. Inititally I thought it was really stupid idea (actually I still do to an extent) but the Maul episodes were some of my favorites so I didn't mind it in the end. Now it just drives me crazy that Darth Maul's fate is up in the air. I think he needs to be dead.