JCC A critical analysis of socio-cultural tropes as presented by Disney characters

Discussion in 'Community' started by GrandAdmiralJello, May 28, 2009.

  1. Lady Keira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2004
    star 5
    Ok, I believe Jello called Jasmine "out of touch" although I can't seem to find the post now. :p Maybe she is out of touch, but that's hardly her fault. She was so sheltered in the palace that she had no idea how the world worked outside, and didn't even think to bring any money with her when she runs away. This is clearly her father's fault, not hers. She was never allowed to leave the palace walls, or make any friends other than her pet tiger.

    I think I had more to say, but I forget now.
  2. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Garbage. Belle was smart enough to get an education, even in her little hick village. Are you saying that Jasmine, with all her fabulous wealth, couldn't bother to learn what the world was like?

    Jasmine is the Paris Hilton of the Disney princesses.
  3. Lady Keira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2004
    star 5
    I'm not saying Jasmine was better than Belle.
  4. Ostrich_Stapler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2004
    star 5
    [image=http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/coolsaber57/Jackson_popcorn.gif]
  5. Thrawn1786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2004
    star 5
    Unofficial canon has given him the name of Prince Adam. I don't know where that came from, but I've seen it on various discussion boards, youtube videos, and fanfiction.net. Yes I am a complete fangirl regarding BatB. I have been ever since I was little and wanted all of the merchandise despite never seeing the film until it was on video.

    On the subject of favorite princesses, even though I dressed up as Jasmine for Halloween, Belle was/is my favorite Disney princess because "she was just like me": she loved reading. Growing up, I was the only kid I knew in my town(not counting my siblings) who enjoyed reading, and for fun at that. Off-topic, I also said Belle was similar because she had dark blonde hair and brown eyes like I did. :p Getting back on track, she is still my favorite for those reasons because, despite the popularity of Twilight and the Harry Potter books, at my college extracurricular reading is made out to be a "nerdy activity" if you read anything but the previously mentioned books. :(

    I do agree that Belle is the first "strong" Disney heroine in that she does not conform to the standards of the town, go along with the popular choices(aka drool over Gaston like the Bimbettes do), and she stays true to herself by never faltering in the face of the Beast's bullying or Gaston's. In thinking this whole thing through, I've additionally realized that Belle, after her "I Wish" song("I want adventure in the great wide somewhere..."), immediately drops that whole dream/fantasy at the first sign that her father is in danger. Did Ariel do that? No. She thought only of herself even though she knew of the reputation Ursula had, plus the fact her father had banished said witch should've been a big enough warning by itself.

    Now that I've shared my two cents, I have really enjoyed the entire discussion. Even though part of my major requires analyzing everything under the sun(oh the life of an English major), I'd never really given the Disney princesses much thought, so this thread has been quite fun and given me a bit to chew on. :)
  6. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    IIRC correctly the Broadway show has Scar singing about how he wants to rape Simba's mom...
  7. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Actually, that was Nala...
  8. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Nala wanted to rape Sarabi??
  9. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Scar! Scar was lusting after Nala, singing "you will belong to me!" or something similar, because he wanted immortality.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAfz6bEUfRA
  10. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    So, how many people have seen Princess and the Frog?
  11. Miana Kenobi Costuming & Props Mod - Retired Admin

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    star 8
  12. Ostrich_Stapler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2004
    star 5
    I am still waiting for a heated argument over whether the princess in Princess and the Frog is better than Jasmine, Belle, etc.
  13. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    I've not had any occasion to see this film. I would invite one of the defenders of the new princess to make their case, though. At the very least, it shouldn't be hard to prove that she's better than Belle.
  14. Miana Kenobi Costuming & Props Mod - Retired Admin

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    Apr 5, 2000
    star 8
    Well, she at least wasn't a cookie-cutter princess.
  15. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Yes--the fact that she was not, in fact, actually a princess was a major plus for her.

    But there's far more social mobility in segregated America than in feudal France, so Belle overcame greater adversity.
  16. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    Having seen it, I look forward to seeing where she falls in the princess wars.
  17. Miana Kenobi Costuming & Props Mod - Retired Admin

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    star 8
    Well like Belle, she marries into nobility at the end.

    However, I think Tiana's greatest strength is that she didn't give up her dream when she marries Naveen, she expands her dream to include Naveen in it.

    (that and OMG a Disney princess has a job!)

    How did Belle overcome adversity? She didn't have a set goal that she had to overcome; her goal was that she "wanted adventure in the great wide somewhere" and that she wanted so much more than what her town life held for her; being the pretty wife of Gaston. The only adversity she had was that other people thought she was odd and she lived in a town full of nothing.


    Tiana had a dream and spent her whole life working toward it. She had to overcome being African American AND a woman in the 1920s. Belle had to overcome what other people thought of her.
  18. The Musical Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 1999
    star 5
    [face_laugh][face_laugh]

    "Mommy -- Is voodoo bad?"
  19. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Yes, she has a job. How pedestrian. Clearly Belle's aspirations were loftier, and so she wins in that regard too.
  20. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    Question: Would Disney have made a white princess get a job?

    Also I think its worth noting that she doesn't achieve her dream under her own power. They have to bring in a talking alligator so that she can negotiate a deal to start her restaurant, saying that basically, had her prince not come into her life, she couldn't make her dreams materialise on her own.
  21. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    star 10
    Yes, Belle wouldn't have taken 'no' as an answer. Nor would have have subjected herself to the humiliation of a subprime loan--clearly this Tiana character has no regard for the wider economic health of the country.
  22. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Belle is a towering monument of to hypocritical, self-hating elitism. She, far from the town's most wealthy or prestigious citizen, has the nerve to derive everyone else as "little people?"
  23. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Surely it depends on the time period the film is set in.
    I've not yet seen The Princess & The Frog since it's not out in the UK until February, but isn't it set in the 1920s or therabouts?

    Back at the times of Belle, Jasmine etc, women were not able to vote never mind get proper jobs if any at all. Besides, Princesses didn't need jobs. Snow White, Aurora, Ariel and others were all nobility, they had lots of moeny and servants why would they need jobs?

    I read an article a while ago stating that this is the first Disney film to be set in America. Did they overlook Pocahontas?
  24. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    That's because she knows what truly matters: her intellectual polish and attainment. She has no need to be the biggest butcher or the craftiest merchant in some nonsense town.

    There is no self-hate, but self-awareness: and vision.
  25. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    The claim was the general first Disney film to be in America? Yeah, I can think of half a dozen offhand that were already.