Lit A Cynical Walk Through the NJO

If there are two things I hate, they're things that are different and cliches.

 

Okay let me simplify it to you:
The concept of the Yuuzan Vongs itself is too "different" from Star Wars. The concept of an alien-invasion is too clishé even for Star Wars. Put those two together and we have BS.

 

The very definition of a Bothan.

 

Funny, whenever I hear Yuuzhan Dork now I wonder two things: Where can I get one and how does it taste?

I think JediBen has a point, although the problem is the other side, namely Luke and the Jedi: Unless Luke expected Leia to stay in office ad infinitum (how is that supposed to work in a democracy?) sooner or later the Jedi would have to deal with polititians and NR-leaders, who don't have the close rapport Luke and Leia have (and what would happen once Luke became one with the Force?). We see it in Destiny's Way where Fyor Rodan questions Luke on the role of the Jedi in the NR/GA and the great Grand Master is incapable of answering those justified questions (and consequently throws his support behind a more willing puppet and even sanctiones the rigging of the election). As much as I loath, what happens in LOTJ and FOTJ, it shouldn't be too surprising considering the mess already in the NJO (mess of the Jedi, not the story).

 

Page 100 of the thread.

 

I remember discussing this in the SOS thread back on the temp boards. Suffice to say that people weren't too impressed with Rodan:

http://gd.theforce.net/xentemp/index.php?threads/s-o-s-save-our-skywalker-temp-edition.112/page-86

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wrong. what we get are inventive, interesting, brilliant villians that put every other EU villian to shame bar Thrawn.

 

Having warlords of the week and Jedi vs Sith gets old after awhile. Good on them for breaking the mold. What else could they have done?

 

I would like to point out that the returning Jedi vs Sith stuff did not happen until after Bantam era, they had mostly imperial Force users and nightsisters.

I would say that it comes down to your personal opinion. My personal opinion is that I find that their technology a bit to often seems tailor made to be pitted against the GFFA's.

 

Publication order maybe. But chronological order is another story.

 

You mean the Luke Skywalker, who at the first sight of trouble for his friends abandonded his private mission to Dagobah? The one, who got his hand chopped off and had to be rescued by his friends? So much for the results justifying him going off on his own. Imagine how far the Rebellion would have come, if every soldier had followed that role-model.

Of course his critics think Rodan is an a.. . After all he isn't awestruck in the presence of the great Jedi-Master, one of the major protagonists of the franchise. Interestingly Mon Mothma has asked similar questions in "Ambush at Corellia".
What the detractors of Rodan ignore is, that the Jedi didn't achive much of anything against the YV, too, because almost everyone acted like a loose cannon (Kyp, Ganner, Anakin). Only once all factions started to cooperate did the GFFA manage to turn the war (in addition to the training- and arming-up-programs finally running).

 

So why should I read those books again?

Were we not talking publication order? If we were talking chronological order so had there been a thousand years of non Jedi vs Sith before the movies.

 

Because they are good stories about people, who overcame their differences and own shortcomings to defeat a greater threat? If you only read novels in which the heroes are perfect your bookshelf must be an empty place.

 

But I prefer books were the character are competent and the government is not just there to be ineffective

 

Too bad we had to come into it on this note.

 

Well lets continue on a better one then

 

The characters are competent, I think. I don't think that it's fair to say they're incompetent just because they have uncertainties about fighting the Vong. Now, I will say that Luke not wanting to fight was a bit annoying, but for Jacen it worked, because that's who he was from the time the series started, and that was the role they had for him. But Luke and Jacen were still doing things. "Competent" doesn't mean standing on the frontlines killing everything in sight. They could still be competent by doing other things. Jacen helped Han and Leia establish the Great River and protect refugees; Luke tried to convince Borsk about the threat of the Vong.

As for the government–if you think they're ineffective here, LOTF and FOTJ take it to whole new levels of ridiculousness. In NJO, I don't think it's that they're ineffective so much that they were split–those like Borsk, Rodan, and Pwoe who were looking out for their own interests, and those like Omas and Triebakk, who wanted what was best for the galaxy. And even though the New Republic military did not take great strides against the Vong initially, it doesn't mean they're ineffective, just that they were not prepared for a threat they wouldn't have even imagined (aliens from outside the galaxy with living technology; that's stuff that nobody could've predicted).

 

My competent comment came from me misreading FTeik post. I thought it stated that Luke's defence against Rodan was calling him a ---- but now when I re-read it I take back that part. Also I did not even think of Jacon when I wrote it. I have problems with the lack of his YJK personality and that the authors seems to forget that there are notable non-warrior jedi among Luke's order and that he have met and talked to members of the old order beside Yoda and Ben but what I have understod so did not Jacon show any real incompetens.

Saying that it gets worse later don't make the "now" better. I like stories were the good guys can work together despite their differences and I count the fall of the new Republic as a big minus against NJO.

 

I don't think Jacen's that far off from his YJK personality, it's just that he doesn't tell jokes as much anymore, and he's more of a questioner. Which I don't think is that odd; it's the age, after all. At about 16 or 17, usually is going to start questioning their way of life and become somewhat rebellious, as Jacen did. He just wanted to make sure the Jedi way was what he really thought it was cracked up to be. As to non-warrior Jedi–the only ones I can think of are Tionne, Ikrit, and Streen, and all three have roles (albeit minor) throughout the series.

Okay, fair enough. I think it was more a problem of ineffective leadership (Borsk) than a totally ineffective government; as shown in Luceno's duology, the military was taking action, it's just that without Borsk endorsing it they weren't able to do their jobs effectively. They had to work with what they had and that wasn't good enough. And I'd hardly call Borsk a "good guy," at least not until Star by Star.

 

The government is always ineffective why should it change in star wars

 

I like the YJK books but I have to admit that beside his bad jokes and natural animal handling ability so didn't Jacon have much of personality beside rather normal nice boy. And what I have seen of NJO Jacon so did he not tell any jokes or have any animal connection, I know that he later developed a connection to the Vong's bio-tech but the way it have been described make it sound like anybody that have gone through what Jacon did and emerged enlightened could have developed that bound.

Also: in the YJK Jacon hade no problems with circle of life but in Dark Tide II: Ruin his POV is:

I guess that Jacon can be referring to killing another sentient and not just killing overall but I would still like to see some thought from him that reflects his earlier attitude but maybe I am complaining about nothing and those thoughts do appear just not in the book passages I have seen.

While we are at it I really liked the whole Jacon-animals/Jaina-machines thing they had in YJK and I am disappointed that they did not continue to build on it - like putting them both in the R&D department against the Vong. I know that Jaina was given a role that involved machines but as a pilot not as mechanic, I always saw her more interested in working with ships then actually flying them – even if she did like to that also – and think it was actually a lose that she was made just another ace pilot. We have seen many of those but how many heroic mechanics (who are not R2) have we seen in SW?

There is also Cilghal and I was thinking about some of the snaps from NJO that I have seen here, like:

This make it sound like Luke's order have only trained warriors.

I like to see Borsk as neutral and I thought that part of the problem with him in TTT come from a culture crock - he expected non-bothans in the NR to act like bothans - and that he would grow out of it. Instead other authors seem to have focused on that part and even enchant it. I guess I am just disappointed that things did not work out as I expected.

 

Well

 

The way I see it is that if they wanted to make a troubled teenage philosopher of Jacon so should they at least have kept his animal connection and zoo.

Instead they made him a gardener

 

jacen obviously shouldn't have had a personality in NJO either catherine

they ruined him