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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit A Cynical Walk Through the NJO

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cynical_Ben, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Gorefiend , I haven't seen a book cover for an adult Star Wars book in about five years. I read on my Kindle.
     
  2. HWK-290

    HWK-290 Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Jul 29, 2013
    "Wait."
     
  3. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
  4. HWK-290

    HWK-290 Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Jul 29, 2013
    The other cool Pseudo-Luke line that no one remembers because it's only in Balance Point.
     
  5. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    Pseudo-Luke? It was Anakin Skywalker, according to The Unifying Force (though we didn't know that in Balance Point, true).
     
  6. HWK-290

    HWK-290 Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Jul 29, 2013
    ...there are people in this thread reading the NJO for the first time.
     
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  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    The only cool part of that scene was Jacen realizing that Jaina was hurt. The scene in which Jaina was blinded was a good "holy ****" moment.

    The rest of the religious conversation with the stars, demi-god Luke (or Anakin or whoever the hell he was supposed to be) and chatter about "balance" was just WTF.
     
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  8. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    Sorry. [face_blush]
     
  9. HWK-290

    HWK-290 Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2013
    It's a vision, it's supposed to be WTF. What, you think Jacen spends more than half the book flipping out just because he dropped the soap? Dude basically foresees himself dropping the galaxy. One small moment of anger and what-not.

    Edit Button, you've got the power!
     
  10. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    *Massive* Unifying Force spoilers:

    Yeah, when he hears the voice the second time while fighting Onimi and it says it is Anakin Skywalker speaking, I get chills so bad. That is a pick-up so cool from Luceno that it makes it seem almost like they intended to make Jacen the hero from the beginning.
     
  11. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    You should fix this.



    Page/chapter? Is it separate from his initial vision which I posted in its entirety in this thread because that's how I roll?
     
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  12. HWK-290

    HWK-290 Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Jul 29, 2013
    I'm not at home to have the book in front of me, so I can't give the page/chapter yet, but it's near the end when he's hiding in some storage closet, after he's turned back to go after Leia. Completely separate from the initial vision.

    Makes for an interesting parallel: his vision on Belkadan isn't truly fulfilled until Traitor, and his vision on Duro isn't truly fulfilled until The Unifying Force. In both cases, he's being impatient about it. In the latter case, Wait can be taken to have a double meaning with regards to the tilting-galaxy vision: wait to go after Leia, and wait for the true moment to stand firm.
     
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I understand that and I also understand that what I'm about to say isn't very popular among fans of the mythology aspect of Star Wars, but I wish these characters who get these visions out of nowhere and flip the **** out would try a process called "rational thought" and realize one of two things:

    1. "Dropping the galaxy" is a choice. Seeing Jesus!Luke and some stars doesn't mean it has to happen.

    I extend that to Jacen's grandfather, my favorite character, who behaved like a dumbass in ROTS and on Mortis because of what a vision said.

    2. Drugs are bad, mmmmkay?. Alright, go with number one.

    As far as Jacen, I don't know if it was his vision that made him annoying as hell in the rest of the book, but if it is, there is another reason for him to keep calm and think this through.

    All that said, I'm a big Stover fan and look forward to Traitor.
     
  14. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    This strikes me as Pseudo-Luke instructing Jacen the same way that Obi-Wan instructs Luke in Allegiance. Or The Lost City of the Jedi.

    Focus on the keypad. Focus on the numbers.
    "I don't see anything."
    The first number is seven.
    "I'm not -- I can't see it."
    There was a whisper in his mind that might have been a sigh. The numbers are seven seven eight one three one two.

    "Memorize this code, Luke," Obi-Wan continued. "Its importance shall soon become clear to you: JE-99-DI-88-FOR-00-CE." Then he began to fade away.

    Edit: I like these names we're coming up with, there's Pseudo-Luke and Jesus!Luke. I wonder what this says about Jacen?

    Which book are you on, anakinfansince1983?
     
  15. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I'm about halfway through Dark Journey.
     
  16. HWK-290

    HWK-290 Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Jul 29, 2013
    Still waiting on Cynical_Ben before I start getting into the "Jacen is annoying in Balance Point" topic. It'll be a long post by necessity and I don't want to steal anyone's thunder.

    Suffice to say for now that the kid takes one look at "with great power comes great responsibility" and goes, no, you know what, I'm not confident that I'm capable of handing this responsibility, not when everywhere I turn I see people more experienced than myself abusing it, so take back this "great power", I don't want it if it means becoming the monster I'm fighting, and hey maybe my high profile will get this noticed and people will actually start thinking about repercussions for a change. Jacen's struggle in this book is basically Centerpoint Station writ small: do I use it? Do I not use it? What happens if I do? What happens if I don't?

    This would all be perfectly fine during peacetime. But, of course, because there's a war on and heaven forbid anyone so gifted with this hereditary blessing turns their back on it, particularly a SkySolo, everyone up to and including Jacen's own mother treats him as subhuman. Even Luke. Despite Jacen's perfectly rational argument that hey, he can still hold a blaster same as any other groundpounding nerfherder. This is basically proto-FotJ: if you're not a Jedi you're worthless so get out of the way. Exception to Han because best pilot in the galaxy mwuahahaha.

    And to make circumstances even more biased against Jacen and undermine his position even more, Destiny decides to swing on by with its ugly mug and force him into an untenable position where he has no choice but to abandon his stance and his principles. Which, you know, turns out alright because "that which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil", but don't expect anyone else in this novel or the next to understand that.

    tl;dr: rational worries, logical arguments, and even a near equivalent to satyagraha get thrown out the window because WAAAAAAAAARGH.

    EDIT: Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I really, really like this novel. It just so happens that, with regards to this one particular plot point, nearly every character in this book suddenly decides to space some brain cells.

    P.S. No, this is not the post I spoke of.
    P.P.S. Yes, it will be even longer.
     
  17. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    This is going to be fun!

    Edit:
    [​IMG]

    With what does Source rhyme?
     
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  18. Solent

    Solent Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Haven´t seen Mortis yet, but I wouldn´t call him dumbass in ROTS. He´s going through his mother´s death again, feeling the warnings that indicated her death and wants to do something about it. Sadly Yoda´s advice amounts to "people die and disolve into the Force. Rejoice!":rolleyes:. Because Jedi haven´t bothered with significant feelings for centuries (just who´s the idiot who pushes this forward? So far it has always ended in Sith kicking their asses) and thus have no idea how they affect using the Force, Yoda can´t tell him what he tells to Luke: future is not certain, and focus determines reality - Anakin has a huge subconcscious fear and what he´s getting in his visions is what´ll happen if he sucumbs to it, same way the Dagobah cave showed what´d happened to Luke had he given in to his anger.

    And Jacen was an idiot in both JE and BP. In JE he decides killing lots of enemies combatants is a greater evil than letting said enemies engage and destroy plenty of your own forces. Good job being a protector Jacen. In DW he keeps getting entangled in lots of pointless doubts. Because a 16 year old knows better than the guy who got teached by even Force Ghosts (and I´d really would have liked authors didn´t assume OB1, Yoda and Anakin didn´t keep regular contact after RotJ).

    Traitor is good, but I just can´t stand Vergere´s teachings. Is kind of Kreia 2.0. Lots of playing with semanthics, rethoric questions and trying to justify the unjustifyble. People who insist she doesn´t say there´s no DS, please elaborate, because I don´t remember anything between the lines that implied so. What I got was most a "good ends justify bad means".

    And hey, the problem with not feeling YV in the Force didn´t lie with the Jedi after all.
     
  19. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    Where?

    Edit: As an aside, you know, for once, I'd like to see someone quote Vergere in the proper context to explain their disagreement, rather than say "she was saying this." I'll preemptively quote the author:
     
  20. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    I wish I could; my edit expired. Mods, if you read this, feel free to redact that spoiler.
     
  21. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    In the initial plot outline, the second New Jedi Order hardcover was to feature Luke and Mara journeying to a new world to meet with the invading leader, an example of the common mythological motif of entering into the “heart of darkness.” With Tsavong Lah’s ultimatum issued at story’s end, one of the points in the initial outline is covered: the alien invaders would use the Jedi to pit factions within the New Republic against one another. Notes regarding Tsavong Lah say, “He is Darth Vader to Supreme Overlord Shimrra’s emperor; Jacen is Luke, without the blood tie.”

    Again mirroring the Hero’s Journey as detailed by Joseph Campbell, this book casts Jacen as the Reluctant Hero archetype as he struggles to reconcile the need for aggression against the invaders with his idealistic philosophies.

    [​IMG]
    It's a shame his 14 year old haircut didn't spontaneously grow back for this battle.
     
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  22. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    I am impressed, at least, that the artist remembered that he and Leia had been shaven early in the book.
     
  23. HWK-290

    HWK-290 Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Jul 29, 2013
    Is that the desk? Sithspit, it's huge!

    [​IMG]


    Page 310, Chapter 25

    Page 337, Chapter 27


    It's not that she doesn't say "there is no dark side", it's that people stop right there and accept it as a complete explanation of her viewpoint.

    It's like listening to someone say "a feather and bowling ball dropped at the same time will hit the floor at the same time" and, without waiting to hear such details as "absent other factors such as wind and wind resistance, i.e. in a vacuum", laughing them off for being so obviously wrong.

    Bold for emphasis is mine, the full dialogue from Traitor:

    ...yes it did. Regardless of whether or not Yuuzhan'tar or Sekot "stripped" them, the fault was with Jedi perceptions.
     
  24. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    Oh, I found it, hence my quoting of Obi-Wan guiding Luke by the nose similarly. Pseudo-Luke was being punished by being saddled with Jacen.

    Also spoilers
     
  25. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    Well, what'd you think, Jacen incapacitated Tsavong Lah, the warmaster of the Yuuzhan Vong, with a little school teacher's desk? Yeah, it'd have to be a pretty karking big desk to break Tsavong Lah's legs (didn't he lose one of 'em)?