Lit A Cynical Walk Through the NJO

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cynical_Ben, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. LightsaberAccident Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2013
    star 1
    I think the NJO might have broken down in that respect due to a value we do know: the number of authors involved. Each author probably had a different idea on the strength of each belligerent. I think the vacillations just come with the territory: when you've got multiple authors writing a series that long, consistency is going to get a little warped.
  2. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Nope, that's what editors are supposed to prevent. If TV can do consistency across multiple seasons of a series with as many if not more writers, what's stopping it being done on books? Nothing.
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Sep 14, 2013
  3. Solent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 2
    You assume editors do that. They donĀ“t. And with so many authors, NJO still managed to be much more coherent than LotF with 3.
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I assume there are editors at all Solent, that may well not be the case!
  5. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Where is this mentioned?
  6. Sniper_Wolf Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 4
    On Edge of Victory heading towards Star by Star gathering by where the conversation is at? For a call back to Anakin Solo dying and the reaction, I remember purchasing Star by Star hardcover a month before the paperback was released- $25 is high on an eight grader's budget- and skipping EOV II so I could see Anakin die. Now I'm skipping EOV due to other reasons.

    All right, first half of the NJO. I noticed now I will put down the novel if I am not enjoying it. Unless if I have to review the book my life is busy enough to not waste my spare time on a book I dislike. So, as a bit of foreshadowing, I did not finish Balance Point or EOV II, still denying me the Ben Skywalker birth scene.

    Vector Prime- reading this after my attempt to start The Icewind Dale trilogy confirms my dislike of Salvatore. I am glad the writer is having an ejaculatory good time, but Salvatore could have left out his exclamation marks cueing us in with the neon signs and red lights. The story itself is adequate though Salvatore's stylistic incompetence is the literary equivalent of a lesser Alan Moore script illustrated by a million monkeys with a million crayons. I have yet to divine why Del Rey always decides to place the weakest novel as the vanguard for their long story arcs. Betrayal and Outcast fall into this trap as well.

    Chewing dying, fine by me. This is an area Del Rey does excel at over Bantam. Too many people are mistaking darkness for giving the novels an actual emotional weight. Han's reaction to dead Chewie? One of the better aspects of the series.

    Luke? Just no. The Luke characterization is really as sub par as people describe it. Concurrently, the stark divide between Anakin's and Jacen's philosophy is borderline comical. I noticed many aspects of the first half of NJO come off as quite juvenile, or in the case of Edge of Victory, adolescent novels hiding in plain sight. Somewhere along the line the creators blurred the line between children as the audience versus children and adults as the audience. Given the series is supposed to be "darker" there is a jarring tonal inconsistency between infantile and maturity.

    Mara, I'm not seeing the alleged terrible characterization, and given that Survivor's Quest leads me to believe Timothy Zahn is married to a sex bot, I'm content to let the hardcore Zahn followers (and the author himself) to keep howling at the wind. Mara's sick, Mara's a middle aged pregnant woman, so yes, she's going to act different than when she was adventuring around the Thrawn Trilogy time frame.

    Hmm, having posting problems. Looks like I'll be forced to serialized my NJO ideas. Apparently a core thesis of mine, the duologies would have been better of condensed into four stronger novels instead of eight drawn out books, has been defeated by the posting program. :p I should have Dark Tide, the New Jedi Order is equally guilty for "inserting author characters" as Legacy of the Force, and why Tahiri's descent into multiple personalities is embarrassing to read later in the day or over the next few days depending on how loquacious I am.
  7. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    There's some allusion to it in the final novel and it was subsequently fleshed out to some detail in supporting materials.

    As for the GFFA, it's supposition on my part. The idea that the Celestials created these hyperspace disturbances to block off the Unknown Regions is in the Essential Atlas, IIRC, and I believe there are others elsewhere in the galaxy, as well as surrounding it. Presumably, the Celestials didn't visit the Yuuzhan Vong galaxy and do the same, thus leaving any destructive force unfettered in their devastation of it -- whereas the GFFA has had similar events, see: Voss, Kesh, but these didn't reach the UR, or even the whole known galaxy AFAIK.

    It's even plausible that after the Yuuzhan Vong left their galaxy, it bounced back. That could have been an avenue for storytelling as I imagine that the hyperdrive would make it a much easier task to reach their galaxy than their dovin basal propulsion, which requires a lock-on of a gravity signature, or is otherwise slowed substantially, which is why it took the Yuuzhan Vong so long.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 14, 2013
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I agree with you about Chewie; the arguments over whether he "should have died" aside (and I don't believe in character shields), his death was extremely well written.

    I don't really get the Salvatore hate, I like his work. I loved the AOTC novelization; he got inside the characters' heads much better than the film did. I recommend the novel to anyone who finds the A/P romance in the film a case of "telling not showing."

    I've never thought of the Edge of Victory series as a children's novel--is that statement due to the fact that the main characters are teenagers? I liked that aspect but I also like a lot of YA material and I like Anakin, Tahiri, Tenel Ka, and Lowbacca so their ages weren't at the forefront of my mind.

    As far as Mara, I haven't read Survivor's Quest so I don't know the comparison but I have been a "middle-aged pregnant woman" myself and didn't use that as an excuse to whine and behave as if the galaxy revolved around me. That's not a characterization problem if that's what her personality is supposed to be but it doesn't make me like or sympathize with her any more.
  9. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Do you remeber what supporting materials?
  10. LightsaberAccident Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2013
    star 1
    Check the references section near the bottom of this wiki page.
  11. Cynical_Ben Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2013
    star 4
    Actually, there's a series of books about Anakin, Tahiri and Ikrit going on adventures that were meant as children's readers, called the Junior Jedi Knights series, the baby brother to the Young Jedi Knight series; the Edge of Victory books are basically the coda to both of those series, dealing with the characters from the Academy as the Yuuzhan Vong invasion hits them.

    Actually, one of the JJK books, called The Golden Globe, was one of the first EU books I ever read, and needless to say I had no idea what was going on.
  12. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    ......must.... discuss...... Traitor......

    I find it curious that the metaphor of chapter nine, "The Belly of the Beast," does not get more recognition from people. Including myself. Context is important!
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 14, 2013
  13. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Despite being written for a REALLY young audience, Junior Jedi Knights was more mature than YJK I felt. Anakin was a brooding kid.
  14. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    I suppose this comes through in the NJO in the sense that Jacen's role was originally Anakin's.

    *forces self to re-read Conquest instead of Traitor*
  15. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Eh, neither Anakin or Jacen really were entirely consistent with their previous selves.

    1:] Anakin was the sort of kid who grew up to wear lots of black and listen to Linkin Park. He was very worried about the Light and the Dark Side. He was kind of obsessive over the fact that he was named after Darth Vader and that Palpatine wanted to use him as a host body. Tahiri and Tionne eventually got him to come out of his shell, though, as did Jedi Master Ikrit. Who, basically, was a Jedi master bunny. Not a bunny-person, an actual bunny.

    2:] Jacen Solo was a happy go lucky kid with an absurdly juvenile sense of humor and the Crocodile Hunter (RIP)'s gift with animals. He wasn't too interested in the Light and Dark element but just saw being a Jedi as being a hero. He was friendly, compassionate, and not too philosophical.
  16. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    And the Anakin you just described would fit the deep thinker that Jacen was -- as was intended to be Anakin. The characterization of the Solo that died wasn't as important to the plot and became defined through Stackpole's characterization of him as motivating himself through guilt.
  17. Cynical_Ben Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2013
    star 4
    Yeah, the fact that the two of them were flip-flopped is pretty obvious if you go back to the older books. However, there's no reason to say Anakin's iron-clad determination to become a hero, to be a Jedi of action, couldn't come from a youthful conviction to avoid living up to his namesake at all costs. Jacen's philosophizing is harder to explain based on his more happy-go-lucky past, but teenagers do sometimes get contemplative and hesitant when confronted with the uncertainty of the future. Really, complaining that they're both fundamentally out of character is unfair. I'm not at all like I was when I was ten or twelve or even sixteen, why should the Solo kids be?
    DigitalMessiah likes this.
  18. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Eh, I don't think the Anakin of JJK would have lectured Luke like VP Jacen did. Jacen of Vector Prime is Brainy Smurf.

    I think Jacen of the YJK and Anakin would be an okay substitution, though.
  19. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, Anakin is 11 years old in JJK, and 14 in VP (or 15?). Quite a difference between 6th grade and 9th grade (or 10th?). Jacen is about a year and a half older, so 13 and 16. This ABY calender system sucks. I'm so confused!

    And I agree, an 11 year old wouldn't lecture Luke.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 14, 2013
  20. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    my bold
    " The war between the Silentum and the Abominor is strongly implied to be the root cause of the technophobia of the Yuuzhan Vong."
  21. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Or anybody under, at least, 20
  22. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Everything concerning the origins of the Yuuzhan Vong is nebulous at best since it has been rendered myth and legend in their religion. Even "now," look at The Ganner.

    In other words, it is criminal that the Yuuzhan Vong weren't used more after the series.
  23. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Agreed. At least Allston gave us Scut. But there's really been nothing focusing on the Vong proper except a few issues of Legacy.
    DigitalMessiah likes this.
  24. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    The Vong are kind of hard to use individually. So much of their appeal is based on their alienness.
  25. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    I think Allston did an admirable job, personally. Scut was one of my favorite members of the new Wraiths.
    DigitalMessiah likes this.