Lit A Cynical Walk Through the NJO

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cynical_Ben, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Yet DM, you're one of the most frequent people to say the book isn't understood - so what I was suggesting was a probable reason for that. If it is so clear how come there is the amount of confusion and misunderstanding around it? How come it wasn't understood by other EU authors easily?

    I'm not suggesting what I've posted is the answer, merely an attempt at one.
  2. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    When did I say it wasn't misunderstood? Point out my hypocrisies!

    I'm kinda of curious where I contradicted myself on this one. I know I have on other stuff in the past.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Oct 26, 2013
  3. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Pretty certain I wasn't accusing you of anything.
  4. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    I know , I'm accusing myself. I don't know where I contradicted myself in this particular instance, but I know I have in the past. I don't remember saying the novel was well understood but I wouldn't be surprised if I did somewhere sometime.
  5. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    I should have worded this differently. What I was trying to say was that in @Cynical_Ben 's original post he described Jacon in a way that I thought would have fitted better if Jacon was older and more mature. He is not even out of his teens and to say that he has been "kept ... blind for a long while" feels unfair since he has, metaphorical, just begun to truly develop his eyes.



    Do we know what Vergere's plan was if she had failed to enlighten Jacon was
  6. Revanfan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    No, she probably didn't have one. She was hanging everything on Jacen.
  7. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    If some body tells you that everything they tell you is a lie, do you believe they are telling the truth?


    Wonder how many failed "students" she has left behind
    Last edited by Gamiel, Oct 27, 2013
  8. Revanfan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    C'baoth seemed to have a connection to her. [face_dunno]
  9. Rew Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2008
    star 4
    A certain former Tusken Raider comes to mind. :)
  10. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Ask yourself. Where else can one look?
  11. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    But then they would be lying since everything they say is a lie
    http://owmysanity.comicgenesis.com/d/20110118.html
  12. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Who here thinks that Kyp should have been the one to find Jacen and not Ganner?
  13. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Kyp isn't a dashing, swashbuckling, puckish rogue of the holodramas, so no.
  14. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    He could have been...
  15. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Well I was reading an article on 1138 about best deaths in the EU and it mentioned Kyp being used instead of Ganner and that got me thinking. We would still have Ganner and a fitting story end for Kyp. Sacrificing himself for Jacen who he didn't agree with on the Force and the only one to believe he was alive. Also atonement for Cardia and Sernpidal.
  16. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Ganner went out on top and the whole point to the novel is encapsulated in Ganner's last stand.

    Who is Ganner Rhysode? The dashing, swashbuckling, puckish rogue of the holodramas. He stopped trying to be a Jedi, and simply was. "Greatness -- true greatness of any kind -- requires the surrender of control. Passion that is guided, not walled away. Leave your limits behind."

    "Letting slip the bonds of control, leaving aside conscious thought, answering only the surge of his passion and his joy, he finds power undreamed of."


    "He was born to be a legend."

    It wouldn't work with Kyp. And swapping the two characters, Ganner would be another character in the background that does nothing. Ganner is a much more interesting character in death than Kyp is in life, and swapping the two would be the same difference as swapping the names of Anakin and Jacen in the NJO.
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  17. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    My bold
    I am certain that Palpatine was feeling great when he surrendered the control of his Force storm
    [IMG]
  18. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Wouldn't really class that as surrendering.
  19. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    True but he still lost his control when using "the raw, unrestrained Force itself"
  20. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Yes, but I'd see a difference between the two.

    If you're pulling on a kite then let it go then that's different from me cutting the line with a sword unexpectedly - with Sidious in DE, it's the latter.

    Plus, Sidious didn't lose control until Luke and Leia went and severed it! Previously he had directed Force Storms, such as the one that hits Coruscant at the start.
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Oct 28, 2013
  21. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    There's a difference between taking language literally and understanding that all language is metaphor and gleaning the meaning behind the words.
  22. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Kyp might not have been as epic as Ganner but it would be just as fitting imo.
  23. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    It isn't about how epic it is, it is about demonstrating what Vergere's point was. Ganner's last stand fed directly into who Ganner was as a person. Kyp wasn't a flashy wannabe hero.
  24. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Your harshest critic (the leader of of the proactive section of the Jedi Order) not believing that you were dead and came after you, realizing his path might not be the best way to beat the Vong, sacrifices himself so that the one he didn't agree with on the Force may live and make one last atonement for Cardia and Sernpidal.

    I guess I like it since the Jedi Academy trilogy was my first foray into the novels and grew attached to the characters in the story like Kyp and feel like it would be the best end for Kyp.
    darth fluffy likes this.
  25. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    my bold
    I am certain that Palpatine was feeling great when he surrendered the control of his Force storm
    [IMG]

    Better?