Man, I wrote a long post and accidentally lost it. Kyle had a flashy side to himself though with his quips, though I suppose that was somewhat burned out of him by the traumatic event that the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas was. Regarding Destiny's Way being the TURNING POINT, I will point out an amusing quote from the prologue of The Joiner King: The beginning of revisionist history! Um, regarding Vergere, it would seem that the primary or first stumbling block people have with her is that she's trying to break Jacen out of a hedonist worldview in which pleasure is an intrinsic good and pain an intrinsic evil. Most readers evidently find a non-hedonist worldview to be alien, but I think it's rather well summed up by the story of the shadow-moth. Those two sentences will have to suffice for the lost longer post. Although I guess I'll note that "Who is Jacen Solo?" is just a rephrasing of Nietzsche's quoting of Pindar: "Become what you are." Vergere is taking the philosophical premise of dialectical monism as is essentially the underlying premise of Taoism's Taiji, Buddhism's Śūnyatā, and the principle of "Atman is Brahman" to Advaita Vedanta, and which is equally true of the Force itself, and using that to justify Perspectivism, thus being -- as Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are -- what the Jedi Path calls a Jedi relativist. "This is often taken to imply that no way of seeing the world can be taken as definitively "true", but does not necessarily entail that all perspectives are equally valid." Which is cutting to the root of Jacen's problem, that he's looking outside himself for reinforcement of existing beliefs or the truth, and she's telling him to look within himself. AS FOR VERGERE IN DESTINY'S WAY, interestingly her speech about anger to Luke is basically paraphrasing Vietnamese Buddhist monk Thicht Nhat Hahn regarding anger and how to use its energy productively.