Lit A Cynical Walk Through the NJO

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cynical_Ben, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    They say that if you don't first succeed try again, so I try again to get some answers:


    Why did not Vergere jump ship and joint the Republic in Agents of Chaos I: Hero's Trial?

    If I have understood right from the quotes Jacon had not felt the Force for some time until Vergere showed him the nexus. If this is right why could not Jacon feel the Force in himself?

    And a new one
    What do Vergere mean with "[...]you call the dark side what you find when you give yourself over wholly to the Force."?
  2. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Because she still has stuff to do among the Vong.



    Been a while, but didn't they poison him? Though could also be to his state of mind at the time.

    The force tradition she believes in doesn't really go for that there is a Dark Side (even before they made her a "Sith") but that the Force always exists as a whole and thus refusing to use all of it is kind of a stupid idea.
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Nov 11, 2013
  3. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    What stuff?


    If they did that, why would their poison make it impossible for him to feel the Force
    I don't get it[face_dunno]
  4. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Oct 23, 2004
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    Drive Nom Anor up the wall, spy on Lah etc. Also apparently learn more about the Jedi.

    If it is a Vong creation it could have the effect, there are Sith poisons that have kind of similar effects, weaking the connection to the force, or at least to the "light side". Though I would have to reread the novel, it could really just have been his state of mind.


    As far as I am concerned it is all Force User Hogwash anyway ;)
    though here you go
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Potentium
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Nov 11, 2013
  5. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
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    Vergere doesn't believe in the Potentium.
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  6. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    So what do you think she is saying?
    Last edited by Gamiel, Nov 11, 2013
  7. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    She's telling Jacen he's so afraid of the dark side that he won't relinquish control to let the Force guide his actions.
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  8. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Jun 3, 2013
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    She's telling Jacen, that what the Jedi call the dark side, is actually just the Force guiding them. The real dark side is inside the Jedi–the rage or fear or hate they feel–and that those evil feelings, amplified by the Force, are the cause of the actual dark side.
  9. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    Then she is not doing a good job saying it, also is not that more or less what Luke teaches?
  10. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    The dark side is like a vampire. It can't enter unless it is invited.
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  11. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Don't forget
    Show Spoiler
    The Empire will always Strike Back!
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  12. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Jun 3, 2013
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    Luke only teaches that after he starts talking to Vergere. He was so afraid of what happened to him in Dark Empire happening to the other Jedi that anything that even has a whiff of what he thinks is dark side means "STAY AWAY." Vergere sets him straight, and Denning seems to think this is wrong, and sets Luke back on the "right" path (ironically, the path to fearing the dark side) in the Dark Nest trilogy. Then he has Luke "discover" that the light and dark are on (Vergere's exact same teachings!) in Crucible. Troy Denning: the biggest case of "trolls not gettin' it" ever.
  13. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    Didn't Atris teach us that clinging to fear of the dark side will just as easy lead to the dark side as other fears?
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  14. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    Okej... it seems that I need to read more jedi master Luke stories
  15. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Also explain to Tahiri exactly why her being "Shaped" is For The Greater Good. (The Essential Guide to Warfare).
  16. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Jun 3, 2013
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    Eh...LOTF and FOTJ will probably just depress you. Really. They're not that good. I'm not saying they're utterly irredeemable, as there are some good parts in them (especially Allston's books in LOTF, and a few of his scenes in FOTJ), but unless you've already formed an opinion of them yourself (as I had read them all before coming to this forum) they're really not worth it; they just ruin everything that happened in NJO. Though, as a Traviss fan, I did enjoy her Mando stuff. Which, of course, Denning went and ruined with his depictions of Mirta in Invincible and Crucible.
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  17. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    I actually meant pre-NJO jedi master Luke, you know were he is teaching students
    Last edited by Gamiel, Nov 11, 2013
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  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    I tend to think more of 40K's Tau Empire than of Hot Fuzz- but yes- that was the general theme.
  19. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
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    Vergere being at a heretical shaper facility makes zero sense. I like how they're all in on the Sith retcon though. Logic be damned!

    My favorite part is how she doesn't even rejoin the Vong until Rebirth.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Nov 11, 2013
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  20. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    Was explaining to the Warmaster that the jedi, sith and mandos are not good at their jobs also among the stuff that she needed to do? Or had she already done that?
  21. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Nah she needed to do that too.

    Vergere is the epitome of the post-NJO EU. Like she's literally a microcosm of it.
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  22. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    And didn't Kar Vastor in Shadows of Mindor say that unlike the Jedi of old, Luke wasn't afraid of the dark? Oy vey.
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  23. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Jun 3, 2013
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    Remember that TEGTW didn't come out until after the Vergere-Sith retcon; they just rolled with it–not too well, I might add, because...

    Vergere should not even be with the Vong yet! Let alone the fact Vergere was never intended to be a Sith; her being there with Tahiri is a direct contradiction to when she came back to the Vong.
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  24. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    Just wondering in which books do Luke show this post-Dark Empire fear?
  25. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    He doesn't outright show it, IIRC, but Corran notices it in I, Jedi for sure.