Lit A Cynical Walk Through the NJO

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cynical_Ben, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Jun 3, 2013
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    Right. Similarly, the clones could, in a way, access the Force to quiet their minds, but not in the same way a Jedi would.
    Last edited by Revanfan1, Sep 2, 2014
  2. JediMatteus Force Ghost

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    Like to see the science behind that
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  3. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Car'das could teleport stuff with the Force.
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  4. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Yeah, that's what I meant.
  5. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Hase it been stated somewhere earlier that it is not so?
  6. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Of course, VOTF came out before midichlorian counts were a thing.

    Didn't the ANH radio drama imply Han could be trained in the Force, or am I misremembering that?
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  7. JediMatteus Force Ghost

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  8. Riv_Shiel Jedi Master

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    You had me at

    From the looks of it you will just be posting the whole book word for word - not that I'm complaining.

    RE: Fey'lya. He is culturally motivated by climbing the political ladder. Anyone who holds power over him is potentially threatening, so he has to knock down the Jedi to assure his own authority. Also, because of the nature of Bothan politics, he is inclined to assume that others think like he does. What would he do if he had the force? Regarding his specieism, I think this comes from both the same source as his issue with the Jedi (humans are culturally more powerful in the GFFA which he is threatened by) and the fact that he associates humans with the Empire.

    RE: ability to use the force amongst non-sensitives. I don't know of anything that makes commentary either way, but I tend towards Gamiel's perspective that "force-sensitivity" is just an arbitrary cutoff above which it is significantly easier to train to become a Jedi. I don't see any reason an exceptional individual with lower midi count couldn't learn to touch the force, as well.

    As far as Jacen not being able to use the force - I believe Vergere strips him of the force - she returns it to him later on. Think Ulic Qel-Droma - or better yet, don't.
  9. Havac Former Moderator

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    Sep 29, 2005
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    Also with Fey'lya, I think there was a deliberate element of pure identity-politics ****-stirring there. Even if Borsk doesn't believe everything he says, he can gain a lot of political power by playing identity politics and rallying all the nonhumans together against the humans and crying speciesism any time he doesn't get what he wants. The accusation of speciesism leveled against his opponents is a convenient political bludgeon that puts them on a serious defensive and rallies all nonhumans around him because he can tell them they're being discriminated against and he's their man. This is pretty consistent in Stackpole; he basically wrote Fey'lya as Space Al Sharpton.
  10. JediMatteus Force Ghost

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    Yeah i do think Vergere seperated him from the force, with pain as well, but not stripped
  11. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    going by the way you people describe Fey'lya so am I a bit surprised that he has not been reviled to be the secret backer of the Diversity Alliance.
    Last edited by Gamiel, Sep 3, 2014
  12. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Way I see it, people like Han (and Padme, if we can take AotC!novel Yoda at his word) have a very strong presence in the Force... but no conscious ability to sense it. At least through conventional (midi-clorians) means.

    So it manifests as "luck", instead.
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  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    What's the lines from the AoTC novel that say that about Padme?

    That does actually fit very well (at least in Padme's case) - with the Saga Edition game - she has the Strong in The Force feat - but no Force-Sensitivity feat (and no levels in anything that would grant Force-Sensitivity as a class trait).
  14. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Isn't that what Jar Jar's girlfriend and her cronies were?
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  15. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Page 56-57 AotC Hardcover:

    "WIth you, the Force is strong, young Senator," the Jedi Master told her. "Your tragedy on the landing platform, terrible. To see you alive brings warm feelings to my heart."
    "Thank you, Master Yoda," she replied.
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  16. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    I'll have to rewatch the episodes and/or read the online notes TOS had if they're still up but I recall there being some mention about those people the cult was kidnapping in The Disappeared having strong Living Force but not able to use it like Jedi.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 4, 2014
  17. JediMatteus Force Ghost

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    Yoda's attachment was his order, as a whole, and he lost it. He was a wiser Jedi after order 66.
  18. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Oh yeah, BTW, re: Traitor commentary, I'm going to start a new thread and do Traitor and The Unifying Force back to back within the larger context of discussing the themes of the NJO and their relevance within the SW mythos, and how I feel that the NJO works exceptionally well as a companion piece to the film saga, with the three hero's journeys of Anakin, Luke, and Jacen. And, of course, Vergere discussion, as well as Sekot.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 4, 2014
  19. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    Soooooo, I know that I, as somebody who have not read NJO, don't really have a say about what we are discussing here (even if I hope my comments and questions are of some good) but something I have been thinking about is that one of the things that irritates me about the NJO, as it is described, is the hostility toward jedi from the government combined with how overall uncooperative and stupid the government is described some. To me it feels rather cynical and just stupid since the Vong is presented as this big threat and should not need the new Republic, through its own inability to work together, to put out the read carpet for them.

    I was wondering what people think about how the new Republic's government was presented/used in NJO and why it was decided to use it in that way?
  20. Jedi Ben Chosen One

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    A decision was clearly made that the Vong must take Coruscant and the NR be defeated, but NJO made the mistake of also deciding that the NR was corrupt and dead 6 years after the Caamas crisis, that its politicians would be suicidally self-interested and the military would forget all it learnt from the experience of the Galactic Civil War.

    The sad thing is none of those are actually needed to enable point 1, especially when you factor in what DW does with the Vong and their level of resources. DT1 does an excellent job of showing what level the Vong invasion operates on, that should have been more than enough for what the plot required. Instead NJO was a case of building a new story by burning lots of pieces of the old one. (Then LOTF did unto NJO what NJO did to Bantam thus demonstrating the formulaic thinking.)

    I don't think NJO would have the reputation it does without TUF, that book had an immense impact and DR practically ignored it completely.

    That said I do wonder now if the state of the NR was intended to mirror the Republic in TPM, that the PT influence was not just on the Jedi in NJO but the politics too. It'd be dumb sure, but looking at DR's record in this respect, it isn't that implausible either.
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  21. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Um what? Fix this now!
  22. YoungBossk Jedi Padawan

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    Aug 30, 2014
    I've been a Star Wars fan for 16 years now (since age 8), read every comic and book but never touched the NJO series as I missed a few so felt overwhelmed to start.... Finally though I done all 19 books on audio in about 3 months (driving to and from work) and I personally think it is the most important series post ROTJ as so many characters originate from it and so many characters back stories/fates where filled in for me. Loved them all!
  23. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    If we ignore the non-SW literature I need to read (student literature included) so am I right now more interested in the Lando trilogy, Han Solo books, Jedi Academy series, I, Jedi, A new dawn and the Zhan books I have not read before NJO.
  24. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    The really cynical walk through the NJO is the three-page analysis I wrote for The Essential Guide to Warfare, which argues Borsk and Kyp were actually right to begin with, and the "good guys" like Luke and Leia and Sien Sovv were, in their different ways, wrong. The whole narrative of the "incompetent politicians" can be turned right on its head.

    It's doable without the slightest contradiction of canon.

    Of course, that doesn't mean it's the CORRECT analysis. Or even the one I believe in. But I was delighted that it got through the approval and into the continuity formerly known as canon.

    "I have read these books. Your theories are all wrong. Kre'fey acted stupidly."

    -- The Imperial Ewok
    Last edited by Thrawn McEwok, Sep 26, 2014
  25. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    The Fighting Sailor Bothan and the Hunt for Red October Alpha Red, anyone?
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