A debate on Extra-Marital Affairs

Well, no. One must always take responsibility in their own actions.

I'm sorry your girl cheated on you... but don't say it was your fault. Your girl could have walked out or said... she has had enough. Instead, she took the easy and deceptive route.

 

Well said. Do not feel that you've failed or the fault was yours. People who say it takes two to tango are simply making excuses for terrible behaviour. If she was unhappy in the relationship she should have said so and done something about it one way or the other.

People have affairs for selfish reasons, they can't and shouldn't blame their partner.

I personally think that infidelity should legally be on par with domestic violence.

 

While I do agree that often times... it takes two to tango... but there are limits.

I've been in a dysfunctional relationship before... but I got out of it. Honestly, I was tempted to cheat. Very much so. She was mentally abusive towards me. But what did I do? I got out. Me cheating would have not acomplished anything and it would have made me petty.

I mean... I could have cheated... but instead I got out and found myself a better girl.

 

I personally think that infidelity should legally be on par with domestic violence.

i wouldn't go that far. one is an interpersonal dispute, no matter how nasty. the other is assault.

i don't think the government should get involved in relationship issues unless someone's getting hit. it just makes things more complicated and intrudes unnecessarily on people's personal business.

besides, that would get applied to poly people and swingers so quickly it would make your head spin.

 

But who hasn't been in a relationship that didn't work out? You end the relationship if you aren't married and if you are you try to fix things before taking the step of ending the relationship.

There's no excuse as far as I'm concerned.

 

Well, no. One must always take responsibility in their own actions

Its called cause and effect. What led to them taking said action? If I hit you, you hit me. Why did you hit me? Sure you could have had more self control, but the human mind doesnt always work that way, does it?

Your girl could have walked out or said... she has had enough. Instead, she took the easy and deceptive route.


Its not always so **** easy, people keep saying "end it end it". I guarantee you there are many people out there who feel they cant end it. Even if the reason only exists in their head, they feel they cant end it. OK granted cheating shows a weak will, but such is human nature, not everybody has the strength to up and walk out. It comes back to pyschology, youre holding people to standards because its what you do, not everyone operates on the same length as you. Heck I was very tempted to cheat with my last gf, she kept calling me and checking up on me, she didnt have a reason but I was beginning to get slightly peeved off that she wouldnt listen to me. Sure ultimatley it would have been my fault, but I wouldnt have given it much of a thought had she not called me so much, thats kind of what made me to start thinking about it, cruel as it may seem.

But that goes down to human pyschology, her last bf cheated, so she expected me to, and nothing I said or did could convince her otherwise.

People have affairs for selfish reasons, they can't and shouldn't blame their partner.

You could say they're selfish, and sometimes they are, sometimes its just someone who wants, and with some people NEEDS to be held and touched. In my opinion neglect is a form of abuse on both the mental and emotional levels. However some blame can be rested on the shoulder of their partners, is it really that hard to cuddle your signifcant other from time to time? Is it really that hard to SHOW them you love them by spending time together? Or by going to bed together?

I've been in a dysfunctional relationship before... but I got out of it. Honestly, I was tempted to cheat. Very much so. She was mentally abusive towards me. But what did I do? I got out. Me cheating would have not acomplished anything and it would have made me petty.

Great, good for you, bravo! So what are you saying about yourself? Because you could do it anybody can? Do you honestly believe you set some sort of standard for the rest of humanity on how they should act and react to certain situations? As I have stated over and over not everyone feels they can get out, the reasons why might be petty, they might even exist only in their head, but its like that in any abusive relationship, as I said above, neglect is abuse. If someone can get out, more power to them but not everybody can.

But who hasn't been in a relationship that didn't work out? You end the relationship if you aren't married and if you are you try to fix things before taking the step of ending the relationship.

OK read above! I believe I adequatly explained things above.

There's no excuse as far as I'm concerned.

Its cause you REFUSE to look at this situation in anything but black and white.

 

Not true.

I do see it in more than black and white.

But the thing in... I've been in that position before; having a girl cheat on me.

It is never a excuse. Because if they feel they can't... then they are weak.

Deceptive behaavior towards another human being is always deceptive. No bones about it. No justification.

 

Infidelity is a terrible thing, but I wouldn't call it a criminal act.

Physical abuse is another matter entirely.

Peace,

V-03

 

Not true.

I do see it in more than black and white.

I wasnt referring to you either!

But the thing in... I've been in that position before; having a girl cheat on me.

So have I, I was willing but she was one of those wait til marriage girls. The first time she had sex behind my back was a mistake on her part, I dont think she had the intention of doing it, but we broke up shortly after.

It is never a excuse.

What do you mean by "it"?

Because if they feel they can't... then they are weak.

Umm okay? So people are weak, whats your point? Ive never said it makes them a better person, or stronger. Alot of people are weak but there is a reason why they do things the way they do.

Deceptive behaavior towards another human being is always deceptive.

Yes thats an understatment! Thats like saying jolly behavior is always jolly. That doesnt mean there isnt reasons why they do what they do, and to a point it is justified.

No bones about it. No justification.

I disagree! You keep saying there is no justification, but what justification does their partner have for neglecting them? If work is more important than their spouse, well too bad too sad, and your spouse approached you about it, yet you do nothing to change, what do you expect from your spouse? Nobodys been able to explain to me why one spouse should be forced to suffer from neglect? Everybody says they should just leave, but thats not always feasible. Then they say its weak, big deal? They're weak, if everyone was strong then strength wouldnt be much of a character trait would it? People do things for a reason, some are mean or heartless, some of them are just desperate for attention. There is cause and effect, and that comes into play here more than most people realize, and I believe after so long of neglect they have EVERY justification to look after themselves. Ending the relationship might be preferable, I wont disagree, but its not always feasible either.

 

I'm not saying there is a justification for neglecting your partner. But if your answer towards neglect is jumping someone elses bones... you have your priorities off kilter.

But going out and cheating, is reducing yourself to a petty level. Understand where I'm coming from?

This girl that cheated on me... she came clean about all the times. I was furious. I told why they hell did she drag me along if she wanted to have sex with others behind my back. She said because she loved me and didn't want to lose me or want me upset, etc, etc.

I asked her... if you love me so much and don't want to lose me... why the hell did you do that? She couldn't give me an honest and straight answer.

So I walked away and broke up with her, which for some odd damn reason, sent her into such grief.

And until this day, she still tries to get back together with me... evevn when I'm seeing someone, she gets jealous and sometimes angry. Which again makes my head spin in circles.

As I told her and still tell her... I don't care how you feel about me. I don't even understand why you feel that way towards me yet do what you do... but I don't like deception.

 

I'm not sorry she cheated on me. It taught me a lot. Not just about infidelity but about relationships and human nature in general. I'm a better person now as a result of what I've learned. I don't take things for granted as much as I once did.

On a side note, I should mention that where I live (in Latin America) infidelity is a way of life. If someone isn't cheating it's probably only because they haven't gotten around to it yet. The country I'm in right now is particularly bad. It seems that cheating here is the national sport. That kind of infidelity has no excuse, I agree...

 

Well, lets not generalize. I'm from Latin America too and from my experiance, cheating is seen in the same respect here as in other parts of the world. Some cheat, some don't and some just don't care.

 

^^^^ The same meaning if your wife catches you your likely to lose your ****!

 

Blaming the partner for bad behaviour doesn't cut it with me. Maybe I'm seeing the issue in black and white, but I don't take to people making excuses and not taking responsibility too well.

 

Truthfully the only person whose saying they're not taking responsibility is you. What I am talking about is cause and effect. If I walk up to you on the street and punch you in the nose, and you punch me back whose fault is it were fighting? Its yours for not walking away from it. You have the personal choice to just leave? Why didnt you? Is it pride? Fear? I dunno. Why did you throw a punch at me? Because I threw one first, otherwise you would have left me alone.

Same concept here. A person suffering from neglect, which is a form of abuse, begins to have an affair. Why did they begin one? Because of their partners neglect. Could they have walked away? Absolutley. Why dont they? Same reasons, fear, pride, low self esteem. All of these reasons are the same as why you threw the punch back to this individual. Does the cheater bare responsibility? Yes, but so does their spouse. If anyone is trying to not blame someone in this situation its you, your giving a neglectful, and therefore abusive partner the green light to be 100% innocent and refuse to understand basic human psychology.

Many have said they can understand where a person would cheat on their abusive spouse, but abuse is more than just physical, it comes in the forms of mental and emotional as well. Abuse is abuse no matter how you spell it.

 

It's amazing how so many people are so much more willing to cheat and blame some problem in the relationship rather than try and effectively communicate.

Sad, really. If you truly care for someone, you try and work it out, not cheat and say "you made me do it".

Peace,

V-03

 

You act like the person who cheats is completly at fault for the communication break downs and failures. Has it occured to you that they do try to talk about it, but it is their spouse that fails to understand, and continues with the status quo? I doubt it! A cheater isnt satanic, theyre human, they make mistakes, and some of them do try to work things out with their spouse but the spouse refuses to listen. Ive known couples who one partner approaches the other about their unhappiness with the situation and the other gets upset about it and that led to fighting, bad fighting. Whose fault is that? According to you its still the cheaters fault when reality says its not. Ideally they should leave the union, but we dont live in an ideal world either. Instead of villianizing the cheater, look at it through their eyes.

If you truly care for someone you dont neglect them either, if they approach you about being unhappy with the status quo dont get mad, and if you do nothing to change dont say "its not my fault" when they do cheat. They might have stabbed you in the back, but it seems to me as you gave them the knife.


Again Im not defending the people who go out and cheat for the sake of having sex.

 

That is complete nonsense. It's more like someone not being entirely nice to you so you beat them to a pulp. You've taken a relatively small mistake (neglect) and countered that with an action a hundred times more hurtful (cheating). The punishment sure as hell doesn't fit the crime.

The chances are your feelings of neglect only manifested or were exaggerated at the prospect of cheating to justify your actions. In a society where cheating is universally looked down upon, few people are able to look at themselves and just say "what I did was wrong and I shouldn't have done it" and do so without that BUT thrown in at the end. Instead they say "I was wrong" but don't really believe it, otherwise they wouldn't justify it with the "my partner made me do it" "all men do it" etc.. etc..

A good person isn't necessarily someone that doesn't want to cheat, a good person is somebody that respects their partner enough to say "I don't think I can remain faithful and I don't think that's fair to you". When someone cheats it just shows a complete weakness in character, and that weakness stretches across all aspects of their lives. I can't respect somebody like that, I can't respect somebody that doesn't have the principles and cajones to do what's right to somebody that loves them.

We all see through your victim act Jedi_Xen, you just need to do some self-analyzing to see what we see.

 

Oh yes, brilliant idea of yours, let us throw a blanket over everything and treat it all the same. Small mistake (neglect), partner talks to neglectful spouse, neglectful spouse doesnt change. No longer is neglect a small mistake but becomes a major foul up. And neglect is extremely hurtful, have you ever been neglected, I mean seriously neglected by someone you love. Im not talking about them being busy for a couple of weeks, Im talking about months going on to years where words are barely spoken, actions barely taken.

I fully believe they should talk to their spouse, they might not be aware they are being neglectful. But when they do and their partner gets upset and mad, and it leads to fighting. Then I place alot of blame, not all of it or even most of it, but alot of it on the other spouse for not heeding the words of the neglected or caring enough to try and change their routines.

A good person isn't necessarily someone that doesn't want to cheat, a good person is somebody that respects their partner enough to say "I don't think I can remain faithful and I don't think that's fair to you".

Cheating doesnt make em bad people you know? Same as neglect doesnt make someone bad, but it is cause and effect.

When someone cheats it just shows a complete weakness in character, and that weakness stretches across all aspects of their lives. I can't respect somebody like that, I can't respect somebody that doesn't have the principles and cajones to do what's right to somebody that loves them.

I agree, it is a weakness, as I said before not everybody has the same strengths, if they did then it wouldnt be much of defining characteristic for those that do. Also I cant respect someone who neglects their spouse. Im not talking about for weeks or a couple of months, I'm talking months leading to years. Again in an ideal world the neglected would just leave the neglectful if talking to them doesnt help, but this isnt an ideal world. In an ideal world there would be no need to cheat because the partner isnt neglectful either. I also disagree cheaters weaknesses extend to all other aspects of their lives, desperate people do desperate things.

We all see through your victim act Jedi_Xen, you just need to do some self-analyzing to see what we see.

I dont need to ****, as I stated in my opening post, this was a topic of intrest to me, and I have argued on both sides of it before, depending on which side most people take, and that largely depends on the board. Im not married, am currently single, and not really looking to date at this point in my life, so get over your d*** self.

 

and if you do nothing to change dont say "its not my fault" when they do cheat. They might have stabbed you in the back, but it seems to me as you gave them the knife.

I disagree.

There is no excuse for cheating. If the status quo doesn't change, then end the relationship.

The problem is, most people want the security of having found someone else first than face the scary thought of being alone.

Peace,

V-03

 

Soz i'm wi V3 here, cheating is never an answer to anything, it may be a "protest" but it never "solves" a problem, either does it talk about your relationship, in fact it does do a lot more harm than good, show me a time it did? i have been cheated on before, but i dont have a single compultion to cheat on someone. if i want to talk about the relationship and my S.O. doesnt want to hear about it, i leave, they dont want to try and change so the games a bogey.

Cheers.

 

I get the impression that some are bringing personal issues and anger towards specific events in their lives into the forum here. It is one thing to be passionate about what you believ in but it is another to vent misdirected anger. This topic is interesting and should remain at least objective onthe surface.

Instead of villianizing the cheater, look at it through their eyes.

Sorry but I really can't. Not that I am so far superior to anyone who has cheated, I just can not see any reason that would even begin to justify that type of betrayal. Even as a form of revenge seems just too ethically wrong in my opinion. But that is my opinion. I do think that people cheat, thats it, but to blame the act on the spouse is like blaiming robbing a bank on them leaving all that money lying around.

 

You act like the person who cheats is completly at fault for the communication break downs and failures.

I never said that, you did. I said that they were completely at fault for not ending the relationship. If communication doesn't work, then it's time to leave.

Cheating is a cop-out.

Has it occured to you that they do try to talk about it, but it is their spouse that fails to understand, and continues with the status quo? I doubt it!

Whoa, don't presume to know what has or has not occured to me. You don't live in my mind, thank you. I addressed your point above.


A cheater isnt satanic, theyre human, they make mistakes, and some of them do try to work things out with their spouse but the spouse refuses to listen.

Is it possible for you to argue without putting words in another person's mouth? Based on what I've seen to date, I'm beginning to wonder about this. I never said they were satanic. I simply loathe the action. If you fail to communicate again and again, it's better to break it off or at least separate for a time (with the understanding that the relationship is now "open") than simply to cheat and lay the blame at the other person's feet.

I don't respect that, I never have, and I never will.

Ive known couples who one partner approaches the other about their unhappiness with the situation and the other gets upset about it and that led to fighting, bad fighting. Whose fault is that? According to you its still the cheaters fault when reality says its not. Ideally they should leave the union, but we dont live in an ideal world either. Instead of villianizing the cheater, look at it through their eyes.

Again, you make assumptions. I have been there, and there is still no excuse for it.

You are as if you have been in this situation and are trying to make yourself feel better by justifying a position you know to be morally wrong. The fact of the matter is, if telling the other person you are leaving for a time is not wake up call enough in terms of communication, then the relationship is probably dead anyway and going out and hooking up with another person is probably not going to elicit much of an emotional response on the part of the one who is being cheated on.

What I posted has nothing to do with "ideal" and everything to do with what is right. I'm not saying the situation that you have elucidated never occurs, but more often than not it ends up being a lot of "small things" that don't get communicated over time and lead to one person feeling that this is a justification for an affair.

This, I don't agree with. I never blanketed every situation, as you suggest.



If you truly care for someone you dont neglect them either, if they approach you about being unhappy with the status quo dont get mad,

That's the mature thing to do. People are not always mature.

and if you do nothing to change dont say "its not my fault" when they do cheat.

No, it's their fault. They should end the relationship rather than cheat.

One is moving on, the other is mean-spirited and based on revenge, like wanting to get in a last "parting-shot".

They might have stabbed you in the back, but it seems to me as you gave them the knife.

Uh-huh. This sounds a lot like failure to take responsibility to me. The situation which you are describing is one in which there is no excuse. In this instance, clearly, the partner who is not listening no longer cares. Cheating may or may not bother them, but it isn't the right thing to do.

Again Im not defending the people who go out and cheat for the sake of having sex.

Then what are you defending? People who claim to "have been given the knife?" People who can't walk away with having to get revenge first, or need a fallback relationship?

Sounds pretty weak to me, these "people".

I don't respect it.

Peace,

V-03

 

Having been on both sides of the cheat fence, I'd have to say cheating is simply a case of wanting to have one's cake and eat it too. It goes like this: So, one's present relationship, marriage, agreement, whatever, is leaving one feeling neglected (whether real, selfishly, or hypersensitively imagined). But it sure is nice to come home to ....well, home, with all the security and convenience that it entails. So, one finds a way to do that and still get your "emotional needs", however well deserved or not they may be, met. And the person keeping that secure home intact is being treated like less that dirt.

How disgusting.

Nope, I gotta agree with the others here. Cheating is a cop-out that in the end often gets one neither goal (emotional needs or safe secure home). I don't give a damn what the excuse is... selfishness, sexual addiction, abuse (mental or physical) or just plain not really into committment like one thought one was... If it can't be worked out, best to end the current relationship and spare the innocent partner the humiliation.

And unless one is chained to a wall in a dungeon, no one truly is responsible for anyone's misery except oneself.